CNN Opinion: Stop hating on the millenials

[dhermann1]

All other issues aside, in this day and age having a computer and internet is NOT a luxury. That's like saying that having electric light and central heating is a luxury. The entire US and world economy totally depends on sending emails at the very least.

 

[Son_of_Atropos]

First, there is nothing more soul crushing that to work full time or more than full time and not be able to make ends meet. If you've never had to go to a food pantry, request medicaid or treatment under a number of bills while working your butt off, then consider yourself lucky. Unless you are independently wealthy, you're only one major illness away from it. And it sucks if you have to grovel to feed your family or yourself because of fate. Anybody who thinks that going to a food pantry is a walk in the park should have to do it sometime.

Secondly, you are confusing working class with lower class. The way I would line our society is up is: poor, working class (sometimes called lower middle class), middle class, upper middle class, and upper class. Those that live on total assistance are poor. Those who work full time are working class. We've started to blur the line between the two. That's SAD. Given the fact that the working class was once the bread and butter of this nation that we've allowed these individuals to backslide into poverty is SAD.

Thirdly, the fact that you believe that everyone who is working class has flat screen tvs and central air is insulting. I'm not even going to dignify that with a response. There's plenty of people from working class backgrounds here, and there's plenty of people making a working class income here. I can guarantee you very few had/have luxuries.

Finally, do you assume that your job will always be there? How long can you live without an income or benefits?

Did you intend your post to be pretentious or was it by accident? You are not even going to dignify that with a response? Sheesh.

Those who work full time are working class? That would constitute a huge majority of the population. How is blurring the line sad? Who is the "we" in letting the working class slide into poverty? Could you be more definite. I'm trying to be civil but you are making it difficult.

 

[sheeplady]

I'm having a hard time reconciling having a computer and internet connection with claiming to not have luxuries.

I don't even know how to respond to this. God, that's just insulting.

You do realize that computers can easily be gotten for free and that very very low cost internet (sometimes free) is available? And that there are things called libraries and schools that have free computers for the public and students to use?

I was going to say something else, but I'm going to get into trouble.

 

[Son_of_Atropos]

All other issues aside, in this day and age having a computer and internet is NOT a luxury. That's like saying that having electric light and central heating is a luxury. The entire US and world economy totally depends on sending emails at the very least.

That is one of my points though, people who are so called "at the bottom" have luxuries that people 20 years ago heck even 10 years ago could not dream of owning. Is the lower class really "poor"?

 

[LizzieMaine]

I do feel I have my background by luck. I know a lot of hard working people (including a lot of people on this board) who didn't have the luck I had. I really suggest you tell one of them to their face that they just didn't work as hard as you.

The one phrase that makes me want to punch any white middle class jackass who says it right in the mouth is the supercilious statement "You could be anything you wanted to be, if only you'd work harder." Because whenever you hear that phrase, you know it's coming from the kind of person who believes in climbing the ladder and then pulling it up behind him.

 

[LizzieMaine]

That is one of my points though, people who are so called "at the bottom" have luxuries that people 20 years ago heck even 10 years ago could not dream of owning. Is the lower class really "poor"?

Imagine living every day of your life with a gun at your head. That's what being "working poor" is like in Modern America.

 

[HudsonHawk]

I do feel I have my background by luck. I know a lot of hard working people (including a lot of people on this board) who didn't have the luck I had. I really suggest you tell one of them to their face that they just didn't work as hard as you.

You're responding on emotion rather than logic now. I guess this has run its course.

 

[sheeplady]

Did you intend your post to be pretentious or was it by accident? You are not even going to dignify that with a response? Sheesh.

Those who work full time are working class? That would constitute a huge majority of the population. How is blurring the line sad? Who is the "we" in letting the working class slide into poverty? Could you be more definite. I'm trying to be civil but you are making it difficult.

No, I didn't. You don't seem to have a basic understanding of class structure in the United States. I don't mean that to be insulting, but most people from the U.S. understand the term "working class" to refer to a specific subculture in our common culture. I'm not sure if that is because you are from another country (or if you are from the U.S., if you lack experience with socio-economic classes other than your own). The working class does not refer to everyone who works full time. As I explained before, they fall into the region between the middle class and the poor. If you know the markers of those two classes, you can differentiate the working class.

I could go into a whole explanation about what it means to be working class, but it's not really something you can explain in a discussion post. There's entire books written on the subject and anything I do as an explanation is going to simply not do it justice. It would be like trying to explain what being middle or upper class meant in a post.

As far as "they" I mean society in general. All those people who want their cheap crap from Walmart, and don't care where or how it's made. All those people who wouldn't pay more for a product with a fair wage attached. All those people who watched blue collared jobs go overseas (and instigated them going overseas) and said "not my problem. I'm middle (or upper) class." Society in general.

 

[HudsonHawk]

I don't even know how to respond to this. God, that's just insulting.

You do realize that computers can easily be gotten for free and that very very low cost internet (sometimes free) is available? And that there are things called libraries and schools that have free computers for the public and students to use?

I was going to say something else, but I'm going to get into trouble.

I find it insulting that anyone who has access to the internet cries they don't have luxuries. It's all a matter of perspective, and we're all colored by our experience.

 

[HudsonHawk]

All other issues aside, in this day and age having a computer and internet is NOT a luxury. That's like saying that having electric light and central heating is a luxury. The entire US and world economy totally depends on sending emails at the very least.

Again, it's all a matter of perspective. I find having a computer and the internet a complete luxury. On a side note, I find central heat one too. Your mileage may vary.

 

[sheeplady]

You're responding on emotion rather than logic now. I guess this has run its course.

You responded first with emotion by saying:

I don't feel I have a job by luck. I've worked my butt off.

But apparently your emotional judgement about your circumstances is not an emotional judgement. Pot, meet kettle. I believe you have something in common.

The one phrase that makes me want to punch any white middle class jackass who says it right in the mouth is the supercilious statement "You could be anything you wanted to be, if only you'd work harder." Because whenever you hear that phrase, you know it's coming from the kind of person who believes in climbing the ladder and then pulling it up behind him.

Exactly. I worked very hard to get where I am. But I know plenty of people who worked just as hard but didn't have chance on their side. But apparently they didn't pull hard enough on their bootstraps.

 

[HudsonHawk]

You responded first with emotion by saying:



But apparently your emotional judgement about your circumstances is not an emotional judgement. Pot, meet kettle. I believe you have something in common.

I was trying to give the background of why I feel the way I do. How my experience has effected my viewpoint. Your response was essentially a threat of physical violence. At any rate, this is obviously a hot button for a lot of us. I've enjoyed the discussion, but nobody wants it to get ugly. I hope we can have spirited discussion on other topics as well.

 

[sheeplady]

Again, it's all a matter of perspective. I find having a computer and the internet a complete luxury. On a side note, I find central heat one too. Your mileage may vary.

So would you feel that anyone with central heating was not poor? Or working class?

You seem to be working from the definition that people who have luxuries cannot be poor or working class. Therefore, if someone has access to the internet or central heat, they are not poor or working class, am I correct?

 

[sheeplady]

I was trying to give the background of why I feel the way I do. How my experience has effected my viewpoint. Your response was essentially a threat of physical violence. At any rate, this is obviously a hot button for a lot of us. I've enjoyed the discussion, but nobody wants it to get ugly. I hope we can have spirited discussion on other topics as well.

Please point out where I specifically threatened physical violence against you. Quote me exactly.

Actually, I think I found it:

I do feel I have my background by luck. I know a lot of hard working people (including a lot of people on this board) who didn't have the luck I had. I really suggest you tell one of them to their face that they just didn't work as hard as you.

If you think I'm threatening you violence by suggesting you go to someone face to face and tell them what you told me via the internet, then it's obvious that you think something is wrong with your attitude. Otherwise you wouldn't assume your words would be met by violence on the part of the other party. Or you're so classiest that you assume that the only way working class people deal with their problems is violence.

 

[Son_of_Atropos]

Imagine living every day of your life with a gun at your head. That's what being "working poor" is like in Modern America.

Who is holding the gun?

 

[HudsonHawk]

So would you feel that anyone with central heating was not poor? Or working class?

You seem to be working from the definition that people who have luxuries cannot be poor or working class. Therefore, if someone has access to the internet or central heat, they are not poor or working class, am I correct?

No. I'm saying I have a hard time working up sympathy for people who claim they cannot afford food, yet find a way to afford what I consider luxuries. Whether they're "poor" or not.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Who is holding the gun?

The entire socioeconomic system is holding the gun. And it could go off at any moment, with no warning at all. If you've never known what it is to live with that fear, you've never been working poor.

 

[HudsonHawk]

If you think I'm threatening you violence by suggesting you go to someone face to face and tell them what you told me via the internet, then it's obvious that you think something is wrong with your attitude. Otherwise you wouldn't assume your words would be met by violence on the part of the other party. Or you're so classiest that you assume that the only way working class people deal with their problems is violence.

So then what did you mean by that comment?

 

[Son_of_Atropos]

No, I didn't. You don't seem to have a basic understanding of class structure in the United States. I don't mean that to be insulting, but most people from the U.S. understand the term "working class" to refer to a specific subculture in our common culture. I'm not sure if that is because you are from another country (or if you are from the U.S., if you lack experience with socio-economic classes other than your own). The working class does not refer to everyone who works full time. As I explained before, they fall into the region between the middle class and the poor. If you know the markers of those two classes, you can differentiate the working class.

I could go into a whole explanation about what it means to be working class, but it's not really something you can explain in a discussion post. There's entire books written on the subject and anything I do as an explanation is going to simply not do it justice. It would be like trying to explain what being middle or upper class meant in a post.

As far as "they" I mean society in general. All those people who want their cheap crap from Walmart, and don't care where or how it's made. All those people who wouldn't pay more for a product with a fair wage attached. All those people who watched blue collared jobs go overseas (and instigated them going overseas) and said "not my problem. I'm middle (or upper) class." Society in general.

Thank you for clearing that up. You sound like a very knowledgeable person on the subject. I apologize for my ignorance.

 

[Son_of_Atropos]

The entire socioeconomic system is holding the gun. And it could go off at any moment, with no warning at all. If you've never known what it is to live with that fear, you've never been working poor.

Sounds like the early 1900s all over again.

No, under your definition, I am not working poor. Is that bad?