Can you help me date this item??

[Lady Day]

Thanks, Sunny! Great to know I can put the mystery to rest.

LD

 

[sixsexsix]

can anyone tell me anything about this broach? i bought it at a vintage shop the other day for $10, there are no markings on it regarding make/artist (?) etc.

 

[Laura Chase]

I'm really puzzled by this garment, how is it supposed to be worn? The auction says it's 50's - what do you ladies think? Other than that it says it's silk crépe de chine and the length is 154 cm./60 inches.

 

[Sunny]

I'm really puzzled by this garment, how is it supposed to be worn? The auction says it's 50's - what do you ladies think? Other than that it says it's crépe de chine and the length is 154 cm./60 inches.

That braidwork looks significantly older than the 50s to me. More like the 30s.

It's some type of negligee. My first guess was the 70s, since I've seen a lot of floaty pseudo-Grecian stuff from then; but the braidwork doesn't go with that at all. The colors look funny, too, like it was gold-colored braid that has tarnished. I'm guessing it's supposed to fasten just in front at the waist, which would make the bodice blouse over.

 

[Laura Chase]

You know, I too really got the sense that it was older than 50's. Why do you think it's supposed to be fastened at the waist rather than at the hips?

Here are the same photos in large resolution, the golden braidwork is beautiful:

Front
Braidwork
Side
Back

 

[Odalisque]

Got really lucky with these two wonderful coats for winter, one is a vibrant olive green coat, with a pink lining and the other a black one with a large shawl collar and ribbon trim, absolutely fit beautifully, very happy, said to be both 1940's, not sure though.

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I love these! Especially the green one. Gorgeous finds, even if they aren't fro the 40's.

 

[bronzewolf]

I love these! Especially the green one. Gorgeous finds, even if they aren't from the 40's.

what do you date them at?

 

[Odalisque]

what do you date them at?

Oh, I didn't mean that they aren't 40's for certain. I'm totally unskilled at dating items. lol I'm sure one of the other FL ladies will be much ore helpful in that regard. I just meant that they were great coats no matter the era.

 

[bronzewolf]

from what i have read, these coats seem to oppulent for the 40's and may be mid 50's it would be interesting to find out, perhaps i should go to the dating forum.... the green coats lining is piped on the edges with black ribbon wrapped, never seen anything like it and will send a photo of it later...

 

[Lily Powers]

Can you post a pic of the label(s)? That would be a good place to start. It would seem that England's involvement in WWII (1939?) and that the war was really right around her, would influence that era's fashion differently than here in the US. I love that Loungers are from all over the world - it really opens the perspective on vintage for me.

 

[bronzewolf]

the green coat with pink lining and lovely piping edging

black coat with dark aubergine lining

 

[Sunny]

I guessed in the Purchases thread that the green was late 40s and the black early 50s. The green could easily be from the early 50s as well; they didn't all have circle skirts! Just from the style they are definitely not pre-1945. The labels, too, look more 50s than 40s.

 

[Sunny]

You know, I too really got the sense that it was older than 50's. Why do you think it's supposed to be fastened at the waist rather than at the hips?

Here are the same photos in large resolution, the golden braidwork is beautiful:

Front
Braidwork
Side
Back

I can't get the photos to load on this computer! I'll try to check later.

I'm guessing it doesn't fasten at the hips because nothing fastened at the hips from 1930-1960 (more or less). Virtually everything had a natural waist emphasis, or if waistless, either fitted with princess seams or was completely straight. (And that was almost exclusively coats and jackets.) An unstructured almost trained but not quite. Negligees could and would trail the ground gracefully, but not that much; and if a trained effect is wanted, it'd be longer and more shaped than that. It's really more intuition than anything scientific. But I would have to see photos or catalog examples from the period that show hip-fastening negligees before I'd be convinced!

 

[Laughing Magpie]

I can't get the photos to load on this computer! I'll try to check later.

I'm guessing it doesn't fasten at the hips because nothing fastened at the hips from 1930-1960 (more or less). Virtually everything had a natural waist emphasis, or if waistless, either fitted with princess seams or was completely straight. (And that was almost exclusively coats and jackets.) An unstructured almost trained but not quite. Negligees could and would trail the ground gracefully, but not that much; and if a trained effect is wanted, it'd be longer and more shaped than that. It's really more intuition than anything scientific. But I would have to see photos or catalog examples from the period that show hip-fastening negligees before I'd be convinced!

When I first looked at the original post I thought the mannequin was just too short (including too short waisted) for the waist-seam to hit at the natural waist and that also ended up with too much of it on the floor. So, on a taller frame, if it joined at the horizontal seam you can see there, it would actually be at the waist, not dropped like it looks on the mannequin.

I just noticed you have the length of it - 150 cm - which would make something that just hits the floor on my 5'5" frame. I bet that's what's going on. (ETA: Oops, just saw that it's 154 cm long. Ok, it would trail about 4 cm/ 1 1/2 inches on me, which is still way less than appears in the picture.)

 

[Laura Chase]

I also think it's supposed to trail just a little or just hit the floor. The mannequin is too small.

The reason I asked about fastening at the hips is that I'm thinking of the possibility that it could be 20's - but it's just a thought. Hope you can load the pics on the other computer, Sunny!

 

[Miss 1929]

That braidwork looks significantly older than the 50s to me. More like the 30s.

It's some type of negligee. My first guess was the 70s, since I've seen a lot of floaty pseudo-Grecian stuff from then; but the braidwork doesn't go with that at all. The colors look funny, too, like it was gold-colored braid that has tarnished. I'm guessing it's supposed to fasten just in front at the waist, which would make the bodice blouse over.

I think it is the over-part of an evening dress from the teens, actually. That explains the fabric, the braid, the pleating, the waist closure...it's sort of a Paul Poiret/Fortuny looking thing. Not necessarily a negligee, but it could be, But that braid screams Art Nouveau.

I think it was an early teen's suit (12-15 years old), because it was like a 21" waist. Whatever But it was tough to pass up. I just hope it went to a good home.

Nope, I think it's a 30s suit. Smaller scale shoulders and shorter peplum than a 40s suit, the pockets are totally 30s, the color, scale of checks, gores in skirt... all look 30s to me. Definitely not the teens.

That waist isn't all that tiny, lots of girls have waists that small without corseting. Not me unfortunately, or I would have to have that suit, it's swell.

 

[Lauren]

I'm with Sunny on the dates. I'm pretty sure the negligee is late 30s. It's too long in length and the soutache at the top is too high to be teens. The cut looks like the Grecian styles that came back in 1936 but were really popular in the later 30s.

Lady Day, I second your suit as late 40s. It's really lovely. But SO tiny!

 

[Miss_Bella_Hell]

Nope, I think it's a 30s suit. Smaller scale shoulders and shorter peplum than a 40s suit, the pockets are totally 30s, the color, scale of checks, gores in skirt... all look 30s to me. Definitely not the teens.

That waist isn't all that tiny, lots of girls have waists that small without corseting. Not me unfortunately, or I would have to have that suit, it's swell.

I think she meant teen's as in teenager's!!

 

[bronzewolf]

I guessed in the Purchases thread that the green was late 40s and the black early 50s. The green could easily be from the early 50s as well; they didn't all have circle skirts! Just from the style they are definitely not pre-1945. The labels, too, look more 50s than 40s.

thank you for your help, find it all fascinating

 

[Lady Day]

I have no idea. Its pretty ugly even for a cape closure. lol Im thinking as late as the 70s for the color, the completely molded plastic body and hook, and its HUGE size.

LD