British designer decries "scruffy" British men.

[rue]

Lucky you aren't in the military. Among their many other hardships, our servicemembers must speak entirely in acronyms, clichés, and cusswords. Even they have to be performative these days. [huh]

Now THAT I can understand, but then again my husband is in the military

I suppose it's laziness I hate,I think we have a wonderful language and I enjoy using it,with all the desire on the FL to retain the manners,style and attitude of what we perceive to be a greater age lets not forget how huge a part language had to play.At this moment I'm watching 'Gilda',these old films didn't have the special effects current films have so the writing and language was so much more important.Just think of the repartee between Bogey and Bacall.
Why, when we try to keep so much of what was special about that time alive,don't we try to keep the language alive aswell?
I just think these acronyms and short cuts are lazy,especially when there may be a number of people like myself who are unaware of their meanings,then of course it becomes inconsiderate, and then it contravenes the definition of a gentleman,'behave in such a way as makes all around you as comfortable as possible'.Not that I am accusing anyone of being knowingly ungentlemanly,just thought I'd mention these shortcuts go over my head and may go over others aswell.

I agree

 

[Pompidou]

I suppose it's laziness I hate,I think we have a wonderful language and I enjoy using it,with all the desire on the FL to retain the manners,style and attitude of what we perceive to be a greater age lets not forget how huge a part language had to play.At this moment I'm watching 'Gilda',these old films didn't have the special effects current films have so the writing and language was so much more important.Just think of the repartee between Bogey and Bacall.
Why, when we try to keep so much of what was special about that time alive,don't we try to keep the language alive aswell?
I just think these acronyms and short cuts are lazy,especially when there may be a number of people like myself who are unaware of their meanings,then of course it becomes inconsiderate, and then it contravenes the definition of a gentleman,'behave in such a way as makes all around you as comfortable as possible'.Not that I am accusing anyone of being knowingly ungentlemanly,just thought I'd mention these shortcuts go over my head and may go over others aswell.

I don't think it's really inconsiderate. It simply means somebody might have to look a word up. If a person who grew up in the 40s uses vocabulary now rendered archaic, and his company doesn't know the definitions of a word or two, the person is likewise hardly inconsiderate. The one out of the loop simply asks, "Hey, what does scallawag mean?" Just like you simply need ask, "Hey, what does DNRTA mean?" The person answers, and, rather than make the speaker feel uncomfortable (by your definition of gentleman, you're hardly a gentleman for making a speaker feel uncomfortable for using a word you don't know the definition of - not that I'm accusing you of not being a gentleman), both sides get along amicably, and one side learns something new. Seems like a win/win.

 

[Tomasso]

And to anyone else who had to go look up an acronym, I likewise apologize.

Actually, I appreciate the use of acronyms as valued time savers though in this case you probably could have used the expansion.

Lucky you aren't in the military. Among their many other hardships, our servicemembers must speak entirely in acronyms, clichés, and cusswords. [huh]

Oh, like commerce, government, sports and such.....

 

[rue]

Um..... what was this post about? lol I think we should get back on track, don't y'all??

 

[LizzieMaine]

Personally prefer telegraphese. Concise, readable, intelligible. Cheaper night rates.

 

[Tomasso]

I just think these acronyms and short cuts are lazy,especially when there may be a number of people like myself who are unaware of their meanings

Acronyms are like words; if you don't know the meaning it's incumbent upon you to educate yourself. Growing up in my family, once we learned how to read we could no longer ask what a word meant, we had to look it up in a dictionary. Of course nowadays we have the Google machine.

 

[Tomasso]

Um..... what was this post about? lol I think we should get back on track, don't y'all??

:nono: Don't you even think of trying to right this ship, Young Lady!

 

[rue]

:nono: Don't you even think of trying to right this ship, Young Lady!

hehehehe.... it's sorta turned into the Titanic, hasn't it? Or maybe the Poseidon?? lol

 

[bumphrey hogart]

Um..... what was this post about? lol I think we should get back on track, don't y'all??

Though I 'dnrta'lol,I get the impression it is the point,British men are considered scruffy because they're too lazy to learn how to dress properly.It's kind of the same thing,(I really don't want anyone to get the wrong impression of what I'm saying,someone has already made a disparaging remark,feeling something offensive was said,when no offense was meant),I think it's similar,not bothering to make an effort spreads.If you don't bother to make an effort with your appearance you're hardly going to make an effort elsewhere,including with your language.

 

[rue]

Though I 'dnrta'lol,I get the impression it is the point,British men are considered scruffy because they're too lazy to learn how to dress properly.It's kind of the same thing,(I really don't want anyone to get the wrong impression of what I'm saying,someone has already made a disparaging remark,feeling something offensive was said,when no offense was meant),I think it's similar,not bothering to make an effort spreads.If you don't bother to make an effort with your appearance you're hardly going to make an effort elsewhere,including with your language.

Ah..... I see what you mean. Carry on then

 

[bumphrey hogart]

Oh,and just to give a different perspective on the idea that it's incumbent on the recipient to listen to and define words that others are using in their company,let's go round to our grandparents and play them gangster rap and tell them it's incumbent on them to define the language used.lol

 

[Pompidou]

They needn't listen to gangster rap, but if we were talking to our grandparents about the internet, and they had to ask what facebook is, then it'd be an apt analogy. The conversation is still civilized, but some terms are unfamiliar.

 

[Tomasso]

on the idea that it's incumbent on the recipient to listen to and define words that others are using in their company

Over the years I've found it necessary to learn dozens of different nomenclatures in order to communicate with people in reference to various matters and I've never felt put upon for needing to do so. In fact, when I become interested in a subject or pursuit the first thing I look to do is peruse its glossary. In the end, I would rather up my game than ask others to lower theirs......

 

[bumphrey hogart]

Over the years I've found it necessary to learn dozens of different nomenclatures in order to communicate with people in reference to various matters and I've never felt put upon for needing to do so. In fact, when I become interested in a subject or pursuit the first thing I look to do is peruse its glossary. In the end, I would rather up my game than ask others to lower theirs......

Absolutely,and if there were a booklet or some other source were definitions for this stuff were readily available I would have no problem at all with it.I really don't have a big problem anyway,it's just occasionally my frustration surfaces and last night was one of those occasions.I'd had a couple of very fine rums and had sat down to peruse the FL,found a thread that looked interesting,(it appeared to concern me directly being a British male) and first hadn't had any luck with the link and then came across another acronym for which I had no definition and my grumpy old b*****d surfaced,and as discussions tend to have a habit of doing,(especially with the help of a little rum),you take a standpoint and use points to reinforce it that might not actually be your real opinion.Of course there is a great deal of difference between the laziness of text speak and valid acronyms used in the nomenclature of a specific subject,it's just when you're unfamiliar with the subject,have no glossary to peruse and the latest is one of a very long line,where it's assumed everyone understands, it can become a tad exasperating,but I think to infer that asking people to not assume everyone understands these things is somehow requiring them to lower their game is a little unfair,my original point,though perhaps confusing valid nomenclature with text speak,was actually quite the opposite.

 

[Zemke Fan]

Seriously? Get with the Zeitgeist, bud. Summary and analysis are for stuff that makes you grades or money. The culture is for soundbites and stereotyping, or at the very most, pointless depression-inducing online bickering that stands in for politics, gender, generation, region, and never looks for resolution or agreement, just an endless series of one-ups.

Never mind that the culture is the place we will have to live the rest of our lives. It's not going to get any serious attention from folk of good will. Probably because they know intuitively that once we open our eyes to the culture, inevitably will come the culture war, and they don't want the guilt of starting it.

Sometimes I think we ought to get the culture war over with sooner than later. It's the only war I would ever volunteer for, because the choice of whether you get brainwashed in basic training is yours alone.

Fletch, I have absolutely NO idea what you're driving at here. "The Culture?" And, the "culture war?" This was so obtuse that I checked the timestamp to see if it could have been posted during/after the cocktail hour.

 

[anon`]

Absolutely,and if there were a booklet or some other source were definitions for this stuff were readily available I would have no problem at all with it.

You mean like Google?

Language--both spoken and written--is not an unyielding myrmidon. That an unfamiliar acronym was used in the context of a discussion board on the Internet is hardly inconsiderate when one considers the source of definitions that they must, by extension, readily have at their fingertips.

 

[Fletch]

Fletch, I have absolutely NO idea what you're driving at here. "The Culture?" And, the "culture war?" This was so obtuse that I checked the timestamp to see if it could have been posted during/after the cocktail hour.

Apologies. I was rambling, riffing, and a little over-sarcastic.

I'm Asperger's, and we often have to choose between mouthy solipsism and complete silence. Sometimes we choose wrongly.

 

[scottyrocks]

Absolutely,and if there were a booklet or some other source were definitions for this stuff were readily available I would have no problem at all with it.I really don't have a big problem anyway,it's just occasionally my frustration surfaces and last night was one of those occasions.I'd had a couple of very fine rums and had sat down to peruse the FL,found a thread that looked interesting,(it appeared to concern me directly being a British male) and first hadn't had any luck with the link and then came across another acronym for which I had no definition and my grumpy old b*****d surfaced,and as discussions tend to have a habit of doing,(especially with the help of a little rum),you take a standpoint and use points to reinforce it that might not actually be your real opinion.Of course there is a great deal of difference between the laziness of text speak and valid acronyms used in the nomenclature of a specific subject,it's just when you're unfamiliar with the subject,have no glossary to peruse and the latest is one of a very long line,where it's assumed everyone understands, it can become a tad exasperating,but I think to infer that asking people to not assume everyone understands these things is somehow requiring them to lower their game is a little unfair,my original point,though perhaps confusing valid nomenclature with text speak,was actually quite the opposite.

Speaking of things being more difficult than they need to be, I guess one could level the same type of complaint against words appearing right after a comma without a space. It can require extra effort by the reader, and shows that the writer has not bothered to learn the conventions of proper written communication. But we endure, either by looking stuff up, or in my example, just kind of plowing through it.

I dont like seeing acronyms I dont recognize, but I either ask, or look them up, and then try to remember them, and I'll add not always successfully.

By the way, I would never have pointed this out if the the conversation hadn't gone in this direction. I am not the 'grammar police.'

 

[Fletch]

I'm happy when people use commas at all. Some - typically angry white males - use them only to create run-on sentences.

 

[Zemke Fan]

Fletch, there was no need to apologize. If anyone should offer up an apology it's me. I've been a little grumpy in the last few days. Had to spend the day today at a corporate offsite and not with my family. I shouldn't have brought my snippiness to this fine establishment.