BK Durable "The Wild One" One Star Double Rider

[Marc mndt]

The extremely oversized shoulder and chest of 1940s jackets can look cool in its own right but is often more costumey looking than flattering.

I agree that some look costumey, like this Hercules with extremely wide shoulder, short body and narrow waist.

Others from the same era, also short and v shaped, look more natural.

The main difference imo between modern perfectos and vintage ones is not the v shape, it's the body length.

These two (late 40s, mid 50s) look a lot more modern for instance, because of their longer body length.

 

[MrProper]

I agree that some look costumey, like this Hercules with extremely wide shoulder, short body and narrow waist.

View attachment 479949

Others from the same era, also short and v shaped, look more natural.

View attachment 479947

The main difference imo between modern perfectos and vintage ones is not the v shape, it's the body length.

These two (late 40s, mid 50s) look a lot more modern for instance, because of their longer body length.

View attachment 479950 View attachment 479951

I don't find either the first or the second costume-like. Only the length makes it very unusual. From the shoulders to the waistband, my untrained eye sees little difference.
Maybe it's because my jackets almost all have a large drop. P2P 23-24 to hem 19-20.

 

[navetsea]

that jacket is crazy snug on the waist, but very cool shoulder angle slope

I agree that some look costumey, like this Hercules with extremely wide shoulder, short body and narrow waist.

View attachment 479949

Others from the same era, also short and v shaped, look more natural.

View attachment 479947

The main difference imo between modern perfectos and vintage ones is not the v shape, it's the body length.

These two (late 40s, mid 50s) look a lot more modern for instance, because of their longer body length.

View attachment 479950 View attachment 479951

I like the 1st and the last jackets best

 

[Observe]

I think you are, with no offense intended. The extremely oversized shoulder and chest of 1940s jackets can look cool in its own right but is often more costumey looking than flattering. The smaller chest and proportional shoulders on late-50s motorcycle jackets and onward really feels more like a return to the neater jacket fits of the 1930s than a drastic “modern fit”. I’d say the oversized-top V-shape 40s/early 50s jackets are an outlier (though of course not to the extent of 90s jackets).

EDIT: And I’d add that for what it’s worth my own go-to modern Perfecto drops from 23 to just about 20, so if that is your gauge for a good drop, it’s met, but that’s nowhere as severe as a 40s style 24 PTP to 18 hem drop.

Fair point regarding eras and fits. I'm no expert, just here to learn.

 

[Aloysius]

I agree that some look costumey, like this Hercules with extremely wide shoulder, short body and narrow waist.

View attachment 479949

Others from the same era, also short and v shaped, look more natural.

View attachment 479947

The main difference imo between modern perfectos and vintage ones is not the v shape, it's the body length.

These two (late 40s, mid 50s) look a lot more modern for instance, because of their longer body length.

View attachment 479950 View attachment 479951

I said often, not always, and often like the look myself. I’d also add that even the top jacket doesn’t approach the extremes of some cuts.

I don't find either the first or the second costume-like. Only the length makes it very unusual. From the shoulders to the waistband, my untrained eye sees little difference.
Maybe it's because my jackets almost all have a large drop. P2P 23-24 to hem 19-20.

You do have a large drop but I think it’s rather different from a large drop achieved through an oversized chest/shoulder area.

 

[Marc mndt]

I’d also add that even the top jacket doesn’t approach the extremes of some cuts.

Do you have an example of what you'd call an extreme cut?

 

[dmoser1978]

I agree that some look costumey, like this Hercules with extremely wide shoulder, short body and narrow waist.

View attachment 479949

Others from the same era, also short and v shaped, look more natural.

View attachment 479947

The main difference imo between modern perfectos and vintage ones is not the v shape, it's the body length.

These two (late 40s, mid 50s) look a lot more modern for instance, because of their longer body length.

View attachment 479950 View attachment 479951

These are some nice looking jackets.

 

[dmoser1978]

Great posts! I’ve been curious about the TMC jacket for a while, albeit not from the perspective of The Wild One per se.

(I’ve never seen the film and so have no real connection to it; in terms of this layout of jacket front, my interest came more from Johnny Ramone’s.)

Looks like a great jacket and I really like the fact that it’s made of a thinner leather with a nice handle, because of course that’s more accurate to vintage jackets.

One thing I’m curious about though is how you’re getting your measurements. Are you pressing the jackets down flat? I’ve worn and measured both 618 and 613 jackets and they always are 22 in P2P for a 40 and 23 in P2P for a 42. Likewise, I get a wider shoulder measurement than you’re getting.

(Obviously I’ll add the caveat that I’m not including JDM models, one-offs, or vintage in this claim.)

You may be correct, I found a measurement chart for 618s on LegendaryUSA that is closer to your experience. I'm going to chalk it up to the jackets being new and harder to lay flat for an accurate measurement.

 

[Aloysius]

Do you have an example of what you'd call an extreme cut?

I’ve seen this kind of thing in a lot of archival photos though I don’t have them on hand.

I can illustrate by related example, though, because this approach to fit wasn’t limited to leather. A common heyday cut in American tailoring, probably at its peak in the 40s, had a rather large upper section then nipped waist, to create a dramatic shape in a way not unlike Scholte’s drape cut, without requiring the wearer to himself be ‘dramatically shaped’ as a more structured equestrian or military cut would require. Mind you, this is a good thing in my book. Slim-straight cuts are far less flattering than cuts that provide the shape rather than expecting the wearer to.

Of course, a tailored coat is a bit different from these jackets in that there’s more of a section below the waist nip, but the principle is the same.

 

[Canuck Panda]

All credit to dmoser,
The original Durable jacket shoulder width = chest width, and the waist width = shoulder width minus 3". This is the key ratio for getting the Johnny jacket fit.

Durable 40:
Shoulder: 21"
P2P: 21"
Waist: 18"

I'm gonna perform some plastic surgery to an incoming 618, and my existing Johnson M500 and Aero Indian Ranger to get this Durable look. Project for the next 6 months. Super excited about these. Will post about the surgery when done, either success or fail.

 

[Monitor]

I agree that some look costumey, like this Hercules with extremely wide shoulder, short body and narrow waist.

View attachment 479949

If this is costumy, I want to be a movie character!

 

[navetsea]

First up is the Durable. This is a vintage piece that was relined, had the zippers replaced, and was redyed about 10 years ago. The leather is very soft and thin and I don't wear this very often, it's more a collectible piece at this point.

Durable 40:
P2P: 21"
Waist: 18"
Back Length: 22"
Sleeve shoulder seam to end: 23"
Middle collar to sleeve end: 34"
Shoulder: 21"

that jacket is crazy snug on the waist, but very cool shoulder angle slope, that movie has lots of cool stills to make it legendary.

 

[Aloysius]

I think costumey was taken as too much of a pejorative here; note that it's coming from someone who's often in traditional tailoring, a hat, giant overcoat, etc.

An outfit with a sweeping 50s V cut isn't inherently costumey; it is a far sight less out-of-place than the global "workwear enthusiast" uniform:

Leather jacket–preferably Real McCoys J-24L–or shop coat, engineer boots–ideally made in Japan by Lofgren, giant wallet the size of a woman's handbag made of overly thick leather shoved into back pocket (usually with a chain). No matter where in the world you go, it is the same.

 

[Monitor]

Nah, I know what Marc meant but I just love the exaggerated shape and over-sized look more than all the other jackets.

 

[Aloysius]

Nah, I know what Marc meant but I just love the exaggerated shape and over-sized look more than all the other jackets.

Haha I was the one who said costumey (he was replying to me) so I was clarifying I don't see it as being the same as a costume (which I think the "global workwear uniform" actually is).

 

[navetsea]

we all costumey and proud of it

 

[Doctor Damage]

In the other thread on the Wild One jacket we noted that photos more or less "prove" that the jacket worn by Brando in the movie had had the lining removed, which no doubt affected how it fit him and draped, and probably goes a long way to explaining by reproductions and even vintage finds never seem to look quite screen accurate.

 

[Aloysius]

In the other thread on the Wild One jacket we noted that photos more or less "prove" that the jacket worn by Brando in the movie had had the lining removed, which no doubt affected how it fit him and draped, and probably goes a long way to explaining by reproductions and even vintage finds never seem to look quite screen accurate.

A combination of lining removal and tailoring, perhaps? If I recall correctly, the late Rick of Film Jackets thought Durable was the best match for the visual details yet the fit was more like a contemporaneous Schott.

Given that you can't exactly change the hardware (and details like lapel shape) from one to the other but you could alter a garment, that might be the best explanation.

 

[Aloysius]

I pondered putting this in a different thread but I think this seems the right one.

For all the talk about the Durable, the "Wild One" jacket at Toys McCoy I keep feeling pulled back to is this one (in the non-film iteration, but I figure the film art one is more relevant to the thread):

The collar shape is stunning.

 

[dmoser1978]

that jacket is crazy snug on the waist, but very cool shoulder angle slope, that movie has lots of cool stills to make it legendary.

Well, it wasn't always as snug at the waist, I've just gotten rounder as I've gotten older.