Bill Kelso

[Mich486]

93 emails for a jacket… jeez…what happens when the decision involves buying a car or a house?!

I found this picture on FB of a BK archive line Leather togs… looks good to me!

 

[red devil]

That's exactly the kind of customer nobody wants... 93 emails, changing orders all over the place, and then slandering the maker.

Theodoros makes some of the best jackets out there, and is a joy to deal with.

My first ever Thedi

My second

I won't list all of them as I have quite a few, but here is the last one

There are more in order, and more to come after, need I say more?

 

[Monitor]

This jacket is hella nice.

 

[jonesy86]

My first Thedi was OTR:

But there is nothing like a custom Thedi Jacket. I may have to make another trip to Thessiloniki one day.

 

[Marc mndt]

I may have to make another trip to Thessiloniki one day.

Now the question is, why did you go to Athens first and who did you visit there

 

[jonesy86]

Now the question is, why did you go to Athens first and who did you visit there

They have a lot of nice old buildings in Athens. And, it is where the boat ride ended.

 

[Canuck Panda]

I have zero BK (for now) and one Thedi (from Classifieds). Is this BK vs Thedi feud like the Aero vs SB feud?

FWIW I didn’t cross shop between the two brands BK and Thedi. I usually go by dollars per jacket and neither are in the same dollars bracket. Which is like comparing apples to oranges. And steak always wins.

Markos is my only Greek friend (for now), we met just a few months ago…

 

[red devil]

I have zero BK (for now) and one Thedi (from Classifieds). Is this BK vs Thedi feud like the Aero vs SB feud?

FWIW I didn’t cross shop between the two brands BK and Thedi. I usually go by dollars per jacket and neither are in the same dollars bracket. Which is like comparing apples to oranges. And steak always wins.

Markos is my only Greek friend (for now), we met just a few months ago…
View attachment 396650

I don't think there was ever a feud here. Only thing I know is that someone came up with the theory that BK jackets were made by Thedi, and it has unfortunately become a persistent rumour. Theo had to put facts straight quite a number of times.

 

[Proffset]

I made the decision to answer for two things.
This Pakistani or Indian or Asian in general (I have absolutely no problem with these people, I worked in India for 10 years and I love them especially, since I have dozens of friends from there.) I have a specific problem with him, because he is a scammer and a liar.
These people have no place in the market, since they deceive their customers.
If I lie I challenge him to call me at 00306950977102 and speak to me in our native dialect since as he says he is a Greek who lives and works in Athens and who has one of the most beautiful names in the world. By the way, I am traveling to Athens tomorrow and I will be there until late on Sunday night. I am in the mood to meet him, to visit his company, in any part of Athens where he is based.
No more scammers.
Mercy that you deal with this anonymous person.
Second and foremost for me.
The one who opened the discussion on the forum is my client. The first jacket I made for him was a very difficult order and for which I worked for many evenings and endless hours until I perfected the pattern.
(over 10 sample tests) and adjust it to its dimensions.
It was a unique piece.
Lots of chats, huge messages, last minute changes, sketches, dimensions of other jackets, dimensions of his body and much more.
It was a difficult period for me as I had to be consistent with the orders of the 21+ stores that I had to deliver for the fall, of course in these and other special customer orders.
At the same time he had the patience to wait because he knew the degree of difficulty of his order and was positive with all the delay. It ended and I handed it over to him and whoever seemed satisfied with the result and probably for this reason ordered the second one.
So for the awareness of all of you, WE HAVE EXCHANGED 93 EMAILS (photo attached)
Imagine how much time I just needed for that.
Second order and again endless words, scattered thoughts in each message ,, I accepted it after I told him to gather all his thoughts in one message.
He did it.
I spent a period of 2 months and received a message that he completely changes the order (he did not ask me if it has progressed or if it has been cut) choosing another pattern with many extra changes and with a lot of extra work and thought on my part.
I ANSWERED HIM I on 19/1
(Theodoros Pampoukas <thedileathers@gmail.com>
19 Jan 2022, 8:18 a.m.
Good morning Volkan I received it. But I was thinking
I worked on the pattern in your first application, but fortunately I
did not cut the order. It is completely different what you ask for and
with many changes. I want to study. It is not easy to do all this. I
do not know what the extra cost will be but I will let you know. Of
course this request in the email regarding 127915 does not apply; It
was just a test)
I have nothing else to say about this BK guy.
You are very stupid to compare with this scammer, I feel disgusted.
I cancel the order, I will refund his money and I feel relieved.
May you all be healthy.
THEODOROS or THEDI

First of all, it is very interesting that you are just making my (the name of one of your customers) private data public here in a public forum. I don't think that's right at all!

And everything I wrote whether here in the forum or by email was always polite, I always tried to give you enough time to reply to my emails. Why has there been so many emails? You should ask yourself that, in most cases you only answered me after my third email. I kept all the emails, I can also upload them here if you want...

I never wanted and would never badmouth someone "like you are doing to me here", I just shared my concern here because I didn't get an answer from you after more than 3 months and in the mail, 3 months ago I asked about it, among other things , how long I can expect until the jacket is ready. Nothing came back, only one day after I had written here in the forum, I received a message from you that you were already working on the jacket sample (how should I know if I don't get any information from you). And I wanted to change the order just because I thought there were too many individual requests, I thought I'd change it to something with which you would be more comfortable... And if you didn't agree with one of my wishes or it was too complicated, why didn't you just write to me that you didn't want to do it like that?

Give me permission and i'll upload emails from both of us here.

With the first jacket, you wrote to me, you finish it at the beginning of March, you finished the jacket at the end of July and in the meantime, of course, I've asked several times about the intermediate status, just to give one example... And every change In hindsight it was always connected with the thought "perhaps it couldn't be implemented like that" so I tried to make it easier for you because I thought that's why it was taking so long. The biggest problem, why there were so many emails, is the fact that you either didn't answer most of my questions at all or only answered them after the second or third email. And with the second jacket, I still had unanswered questions, including the period when I could expect the jacket, and as soon as I paid, there was no answer, from November 14th, 2021 to January 19th, 2022 I didn't get an answer from you. I paid on November 16, 2021 despite still having open questions...

So and now I'd like to ask everyone here in the forum, is it ok how I'm being treated here? Not only with the order but also with his answer? Is it ok to call me stupid because I don't think the quality of either jacket is inferior?

I'm not even mad at the whole thing, just disappointed.

 

[Proffset]

That's exactly the kind of customer nobody wants... 93 emails, changing orders all over the place, and then slandering the maker.

Theodoros makes some of the best jackets out there, and is a joy to deal with.

My first ever Thedi

My second

I won't list all of them as I have quite a few, but here is the last one

There are more in order, and more to come after, need I say more?

Please show me where I made someone bad! I was just sharing my experience. In contrast to another person who calls me stupid here.

 

[Monitor]

Maker calling out a paying customer publicly & releasing private info like this just isn't cool. TBH, I don't see what the problem is; @Pretext360 paid for his first jacket and intended to pay for the second one. If TL didn't believe dealing with the customer was worth the hassle & time - Which is perfectly understandable, of course! - they should've just canceled the order.

 

[red devil]

Please show me where I made someone bad! I was just sharing my experience. In contrast to another person who calls me stupid here.

Here is my understanding:
- You send an inordinate amount of emails
- Change the requests many times
- Then complain that they don't communicate well

Seems disingenuous to say the least doesn't it?

He called you stupid for the comparison you made, not stupid generally. Not sure if that matters to you though.

 

[born113]

Maker calling out a paying customer publicly & releasing private info like this just isn't cool.

Yeah... Such a reaction from the maker absurdly surpassed even 93 letters from the client. I already regret that I learned everything that is in this thread.

 

[Marc mndt]

Maybe the mods @Edward @Peacoat could remove the attachment containing private info?

Thanks for the heads up. I could find no way to delete only the attachment, so I deleted the entire post and re posted it at the end of the string. PC

 

[ton312]

I accepted it after I told him to gather all his thoughts in one message.

This is the best piece of advice for anyone ordering from any maker. These jackets take time to make, so it’s wise for a customer to take their time and think through what they want rather than send a barrage of brain dump requests over an extended period of time. I learned this eventually and at a certain point in the process, I let my order stand as I placed it. Period.

 

[MrProper]

- You send an inordinate amount of emails

I must confess that I also sent a lot of mails when I ordered jackets (from different manufacturers).
On the one hand, this was because I had always learned something new or I thought of things that I had forgotten to specify and on the other hand, questions were only partially answered. If I ask three questions in one mail/message, but only one of them is answered, then of course I will ask the two unanswered questions again.
I must say, however, that I have had only good experience with the most manufacturers so far. I have always been answered promptly and patiently. At least it was not communicated to me that I should not continue to do so.
I like that really and with this experience I would order from these manufacturers again and again.
If a manufacturer can't or doesn't want to do that, then we just don't match, which is perfectly ok.
Two manufacturers did not respond to a second mail from me. So I assume that I am not wanted as a customer and then just buy somewhere else.

 

[Monitor]

I must confess that I also sent a lot of mails when I ordered jackets (from different manufacturers).
On the one hand, this was because I had always learned something new or I thought of things that I had forgotten to specify and on the other hand, questions were only partially answered. If I ask three questions in one mail/message, but only one of them is answered, then of course I will ask the two unanswered questions again.
I must say, however, that I have had only good experience with the most manufacturers so far. I have always been answered promptly and patiently. At least it was not communicated to me that I should not continue to do so.
I like that really and with this experience I would order from these manufacturers again and again.
If a manufacturer can't or doesn't want to do that, then we just don't match, which is perfectly ok.
Two manufacturers did not respond to a second mail from me. So I assume that I am not wanted as a customer and then just buy somewhere else.

Agreed 100%. That's just it; It may appear to us here at this point that the barrage of emails send by the Pretext might've been a bit excessive but that's 'cause we've learned a thing or two. On the other hand, most people don't understand why leather is fuzzy on one side and they've every right not to! Ordering a first, fully custom leather jacket is a process that requires knowledge exclusive to the tailoring and tanning trade. No maker should ever expect any customer to be in a full grasp of such a vast amount of knowledge!

There's nothing bad about wanting to learn & making sure the high sum of money you're paying is going to get you exactly what you want. Same as there's nothing bad if the vendor doesn't want to put up with this.

 

[Proffset]

Maker calling out a paying customer publicly & releasing private info like this just isn't cool. TBH, I don't see what the problem is; @Pretext360 paid for his first jacket and intended to pay for the second one. If TL didn't believe dealing with the customer was worth the hassle & time - Which is perfectly understandable, of course! - they should've just canceled the order.

I don't think it's ok either and I've already paid for the second jacket. I also think he could have emailed me at any time and voiced his concerns.

Here is my understanding:
- You send an inordinate amount of emails
- Change the requests many times
- Then complain that they don't communicate well

Seems disingenuous to say the least doesn't it?

He called you stupid for the comparison you made, not stupid generally. Not sure if that matters to you though.

- Regarding the emails, there were about 30 emails regarding the 2 jackets themselves and then only 1 another email because i wanted to change the model, because as I had already written, I thought he had a problem with my changes (he never said anything about it, but it seemed so to me because of the lack of answers). All other emails were just questions that weren't answered, such as a 3 month reply gap... in the 3 months i wrote 3 emails regarding the jacket plus one recently about the change (As I said, I wanted the change because I thought it would be easier for him that way), I got no reply. No answer that he worked on the jacket, no answer if he didn't agree with anything... nothing.

- I didn't change my request countless times as it seems here... I had changed the back design once on the first jacket and then on the second jacket there were missing answered questions and I wanted a few changes in the design that I didn't change countless times. And then one last time a change in the model for the reason I wrote above.

- "The complain that they don't communicate well" how would you call it if i ask how long i can expect to get the jacket and i wrote too in the same mail so i don't bother you so often. No response for over 3 months so i had absolutely no idea when he would be working on the jacket, so i followed my experience with the first jacket and figured it will take around 10-11 months again. So I assumed it's ok if I make a request to change the model, of course for an additional charge, which I also wrote in the mail. I only got an answer from him after I wrote here in the forum and everything sounded ok in the answer, he wrote that he would look at it and let me know how much the upcharge is for my request. and then he writes such things here in the forum without even writing me anything about it. He writes here that he cancels the order and transfers the money back to me, he hasn't done it yet. He could have written to me at any time, I am a mature person who is understanding and not resentful. And I'm shocked that he writes that he feels a sense of relief after canceling my order, which as written he hasn't done yet... If it was such a burden to deal with me, why didn't he ever let me know his thoughts on this, only after i wrote something related to bill kelso it escalated here in the forum... and i had no bad intentions everything i wrote is still here.

I would have simply found it good if he had written to me and not published my picture + name and surname here. If he had written to me that the change was not possible or that he would like to cancel the order (even without giving a reason), I would have been satisfied. But to write "You are very stupid to compare with this scammer, I feel disgusted." It's very disappointing and even if his works are really good, which I still think, I've lost all respect.

 

[Marc mndt]

Ordering a first, fully custom leather jacket is a process that requires knowledge exclusive to the tailoring and tanning trade.

I strongly disagree. When I ordered my first Thedi I didn't know jack sh*t about leather jackets. I just picked out a design, a color and added a mouton collar. From there on I let Theodoros do his thing. Because that's what he does, he's the specialist. Let him figure out how to make a jacket that fits me.

If my desire was to worry about measurements I should have ordered from 5*

I'm in IT, designing (future) IT landscapes for big companies. I can't imagine my customer (the business) interfering with HOW something should be built. They jus tell me WHAT it is they want and let me (the specialist) figure out the HOW. It would become a huge mess if I'd let them interfere with the HOW.

 

[Proffset]

I strongly disagree. When I ordered my first Thedi I didn't know jack sh*t about leather jackets. I just picked out a design, a color and added a mouton collar. From there on I let Theodoros do his thing. Because that's what he does, he's the specialist. Let him figure out how to make a jacket that fits me.

If my desire was to worry about measurements I should have ordered from 5*

I'm in IT, designing (future) IT landscapes for big companies. I can't imagine my customer (the business) interfering with HOW something should be built. They jus tell me WHAT it is they want and let me (the specialist) figure out the how. It would become a huge mess if I'd let them interfere with the HOW.

You are comparing apples to pears , my wishes were, for example, a breast pocket without a zipper but with a button, a one piece back, etc. nothing earth-changing and i sent pictures (mostly of his jackets on the homepage or facebook) as examples. And i'm sure when a client comes to you and says they want something that does exactly that and brings this results, you'll find a way to make it happen, how you do it is your job. Either you can or you reject the customer outright. I didn't tell him to sew the jacket in scarstitch style exclusively by hand... I sent him pictures of other jackets and said I'd like that.