Bill Kelso

[born113]

I've waited a little over 11 months

Your waiting period is clearly less than 5-8 years like many of his other clients. Thank you. This is very reassuring.

 

[Proffset]

Your waiting period is clearly less than 5-8 years like many of his other clients. Thank you. This is very reassuring.

Yes I had read about experiences with crazy wait times too but just like with Bill Kelso I thought I'd give it a try and make my own experiences and interestingly these two have turned out to be much better for me than my experience with Thedi...

 

[Marc mndt]

Every Bill Kelso jacket is shipped from Greece, so you can guess where the jackets are made.

I think it's fair to assume that Theodoros (who's actually from Greece and has been in the leather jacket business for decades) knows who is who at least in Greece but most likely also in larger parts of Europe. He explained to me how he personally knows his suppliers, which is one of the reasons why Thedi is able to source the best hides offered by those tanneries.

As you can imagine Theodoros was curious to know about Bill Kelso since they claim to produce their jackets in Greece. So he contacted them, asking them for an address of their workshop or at least the name of someone from their workshop who speaks Greek. There was no one to talk to and no address was given.

Theodoros has been in the business since '79 and he never heard of any other manufacturer of (high end) leather jackets that operates within his small country. BK producing jackets in Greece is a lie.

I have had mixed experiences with Thedi... I am currently on my second order from Thedi, I have already paid for it, but no one has answered my emails since November 2021. Ok, I'm sure they have a lot to do there, but no answer for more than 3 months... After the last reply from Thedi, I wrote him back because I had a question about the jacket and how long I should expect this time, so that I don't write him again beforehand. I wrote a reminder email every month (an email even from my other email address, I thought maybe I ended up in spam), nevertheless no respond. Has anyone else had such an experience, or perhaps knows what's going on?

@Marc mndt maybe you have an idea, as far as I know from the forum here you have more contact with Thedi.

I don't know what happened in your case but last week he told me he's been very busy lately, working late every day. Have you tried contacting them via Instagram?

 

[Proffset]

I think it's fair to assume that Theodoros (who's actually from Greece and has been in the leather jacket business for decades) knows who is who at least in Greece but most likely also in larger parts of Europe. He explained to me how he personally knows his suppliers, which is one of the reasons why Thedi is able to source the best hides offered by those tanneries.

As you can imagine Theodoros was curious to know about Bill Kelso since they claim to produce their jackets in Greece. So he contacted them, asking them for an address of their workshop or at least the name of someone from their workshop who speaks Greek. There was no one to talk to and no address was given.

Theodoros has been in the business since '79 and he never heard of any other manufacturer of (high end) leather jackets that operates within his small country. BK producing jackets in Greece is a lie.



I don't know what happened in your case but last week he told me he's been very busy lately, working late every day. Have you tried contacting them via Instagram?

As I wrote before, the jackets are shipped from Greece, of course I have no evidence that they are made there, but I would wonder why they chose Greece and not Italy or other countries to make it appear that they manufacture there? I would be interested in that.

As for my issue with Thedi, I haven't tried to contact him via Instagram yet, but thanks for the tip, I'll try that way.

 

[Blackadder]

As I wrote before, the jackets are shipped from Greece, of course I have no evidence that they are made there, but I would wonder why they chose Greece and not Italy or other countries to make it appear that they manufacture there? I would be interested in that.

As for my issue with Thedi, I haven't tried to contact him via Instagram yet, but thanks for the tip, I'll try that way.

There are lots of reasons for picking a country as base of operation - e.g. where the owner lives, low tax rate, low costs of operation, incentives from Gov't to start up business etc etc.

 

[Marc mndt]

There are lots of reasons for picking a country as base of operation - e.g. where the owner lives, low tax rate, low costs of operation, incentives from Gov't to start up business etc etc.

Also, I would have a hard time spending £850 or £2100 on a 'made in Pakistan' jacket. Pakistan, a low wage country with different labor standards and worker's rights.

Even though I have to admit that these jackets do look well made, I'd rather give my money to people who are honest about how (where) they run their business.

 

[Proffset]

Also, I would have a hard time spending £850 or £2100 on a 'made in Pakistan' jacket. Pakistan, a low wage country with different labor standards and worker's rights.

Even though I have to admit that these jackets do look well made, I'd rather give my money to people who are honest about how (where) they run their business.

View attachment 396140 View attachment 396141

do you have any proof that the jackets are made in pakistan? I don't know but it all sounds like conspiracy theory or slander to me.
Bill Kelso's website says "Our jackets are styled in USA and made exclusively in our workshop in the old city of Athens, Greece where there is tradition in quality leather products since the ancient times. We make our jackets with leathers we import from Italy and materials we import from USA, UK and Japan."
And I bet if you asked Andy you would get the address where the jackets are made, which at the end of the day will be the same address from which the jackets are sent, has anyone checked the address on google maps or via street view? Unfortunately I don't have the address anymore, but I'll ask Andy about it. Also, I don't think people/shops like T-Brid (Paris), Mushmans (Japan) and American Classics (London) would work with someone without knowing exactly where the jackets are made, they wouldn't risk their reputation.
I can't imagine that the jackets are made in a third world country.
But I can't say for sure that they are made in Greece, my opinion is only that I don't make any claims that I can't prove.

I can't say anything about Bill Kelso's bad behavior either, my experiences in correspondence with Andy were really positive.

I've ordered jackets from Aero, Langlitz, Goodwear, Thedi and Bill Kelso and the worst experience I've had with correspondence so far was with Thedi... As far as quality goes, I'd rate it as follows:

1.Goodwear
2.Thedi/Bill Kelso (for me both are on the same level in terms of quality, although I really like Thedi's washed treatment, both are in the same lvl in terms of construction and materials). So even if Bill Kelso manufactures in a third world country, it would hardly be by inexperienced people working under bad conditions, because then they would never achieve such results
3.Langlitz
4.Aero

 

[Canuck Panda]

Some of these photos have been “borrowed” from other sources like Rin Tanaka’s books or Lightning Magazine. Others I figure are part of the BK collection. I think @regius has had an experience with ordering from this line...any input Reg?

That's too bad I had hoped for them to be copies taken from the originals. But that would be some collection of the originals for sure. I also missed the one Regius had put up for sale in the Classifieds. Back to stalking the Classifieds. I find that if I wait long enough, things pop up in the Classifieds. But sometimes that place is haunted by snipers.

 

[Proffset]

That's too bad I had hoped for them to be copies taken from the originals. But that would be some collection of the originals for sure. I also missed the one Regius had put up for sale in the Classifieds. Back to stalking the Classifieds. I find that if I wait long enough, things pop up in the Classifieds. But sometimes that place is haunted by snipers.

Yes, that's a real shame, I also thought that they had the original jackets on site so that they could then reproduce them. I just looked at the site again and it even says at the top... "This is a project that took long time to develop, ie to gather up photos of original vintage jackets from various sources and post them here as reference" I never noticed that before and I've looked at the Archives Line quite a few times, there really are a few holy grails there.

 

[tmitchell59]

Yes, that's a real shame, I also thought that they had the original jackets on site so that they could then reproduce them.

When BK started this "originals" line Andy contacted me and ask if they could borrow a jacket to re-create. They wanted the jacket in house, just not pictures. It was not a good time for me, so I did not ship. I have not heard from them since.

It was never my understanding that they owned those jackets. I believe another member here loaned they a jacket they did re-make.

I currently own two Bk jackets and sold several others. They are fine quality, not sure what they are producing today.

This is the jacket they requested. I don't know if there are pictures on their website.

 

[tmitchell59]

I just reviewed the archive line. Lot of great jackets there. I do recognize some the pictures are from the internet, I have the some of the same pictures.

Interesting they have the early Hercules wool lined MC jackets listed in 3 versions and in the correct order. that does impress me

I've seen few BK jackets new or used for sale in some time. There was Surrogates jacket recently on ebay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/324977269768?hash=item4baa279c08:g:OnsAAOSwVdZh1Xdn

 

[ton312]

I just reviewed the archive line. Lot of great jackets there. I do recognize some the pictures are from the internet, I have the some of the same pictures.

Interesting they have the early Hercules wool lined MC jackets listed in 3 versions and in the correct order. that does impress me

I've seen few BK jackets new or used for sale in some time. There was Surrogates jacket recently on ebay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/324977269768?hash=item4baa279c08:g:OnsAAOSwVdZh1Xdn

That's a really nice HB...I don't see BK jackets for sale, ever, in the second hand market. They just don't appear very often. Meanwhile, there's been a flood of FW Mullholands by comparison, which is equally strange!

 

[Marc mndt]

Unfortunately I don't have the address anymore, but I'll ask Andy about it.

Please do ask, it would be nice if we could finally end this discussion with prove of BK producing their jackets in Athens.

 

[Proffset]

Please do ask, it would be nice if we could finally end this discussion with prove of BK producing their jackets in Athens.

As soon as I can find out more about it, I'll post it here.

 

[Proffset]

I just reviewed the archive line. Lot of great jackets there. I do recognize some the pictures are from the internet, I have the some of the same pictures.

Interesting they have the early Hercules wool lined MC jackets listed in 3 versions and in the correct order. that does impress me

I've seen few BK jackets new or used for sale in some time. There was Surrogates jacket recently on ebay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/324977269768?hash=item4baa279c08:g:OnsAAOSwVdZh1Xdn

I didn't think that they would pay attention to listing the 3 versions in the correct order, I don't have the knowledge to recognize something like this when it comes to vintage jackets, but apparently they actually have a clue about vintage jackets.
I've also read here in the forum that they make the cuffs very wide if you don't ask for silmer ones, true to the original. Also that, for example, the lining of the "Duke - Monarch" is open at the bottom, like the original. I find this kind of things very interesting and personally would never have paid attention to such a things, I would even be disappointed if the cuffs on my jacket were too wide, because I'm just used to more modern jackets or reproductions with a modern cut.

 

[marker2037]

I think Andy spends a lot of time on social media seeking out and finding period accurate details and original jackets to copy. I know they put in a ton of work on the Relic Hunter and have made adjustments that even only recently have been revealed to the Indy world, like the correct buckles on the side straps for Raiders.

I personally like his attention to detail and it's only a matter of time before I order another jacket from them. There's plenty of room in this hobby for good jacket makers.

 

[jonesy86]

Wasn't there a rumor that Block Bilt was BK rebranded?
I like a good mystery.

http://www.block-bilt.com/site/products.php?cat=all

 

[handymike]

Block-bilt turned out to be hatched by 2 former TFL members. I think there was a BK connection for the production although I only saw 2-3 sample jackets.

 

[Blackadder]

I didn't think that they would pay attention to listing the 3 versions in the correct order, I don't have the knowledge to recognize something like this when it comes to vintage jackets, but apparently they actually have a clue about vintage jackets.
I've also read here in the forum that they make the cuffs very wide if you don't ask for silmer ones, true to the original. Also that, for example, the lining of the "Duke - Monarch" is open at the bottom, like the original. I find this kind of things very interesting and personally would never have paid attention to such a things, I would even be disappointed if the cuffs on my jacket were too wide, because I'm just used to more modern jackets or reproductions with a modern cut.

I don't think the cuffs on vintage jackets are very wide. Vintage jackets tend to have wider armhole but taper down to the cuffs. Current trend is to make smaller armhole which does not need much tapering. For custom repro jacket makers like BK and some others that go with larger armholes, problem comes when one ask for a shorter sleeve length and the maker merely cut off a part of the sleeve without giving thoughts to the whole "proportion", the cuffs ended up not being tapered like they should.
Vintage jackets are also shorter in length and smaller in size which I don't see on BK's jackets.
I think BK makes pretty good products (I bought a jacket from them very early on and I still have it) but I am skeptical about the explanations they are giving on various issues.

 

[Blackadder]

Block-bilt turned out to be 2 former TFL members. I think there was a BK connection though.

Really? Sounds intriguing