Bill Kelso

[ton312]

Block-bilt turned out to be hatched by 2 former TFL members. I think there was a BK connection for the production although I only saw 2-3 sample jackets.

Do tell!

 

[handymike]

All I know is that I saw the sample jackets for sale on eBay from 2 members (1 former/ 1 current) and they both had a few orders in with BK around the time Block-bilt was launched... Could also be that the B-B jackets were made in China since both members lived/ traveled there often. (but you didn't hear it from me)

 

[Canuck Panda]

The plot thickens... Great marketing strategy though. I am kinda hooked. Very eager to get a jacket just to see what's the deal. Will sleep on this tonight.

I searched Block Bilt / Bill Kelso and this old thread also came up:
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/thr...-never-seen-these-jackets-anyone.85323/page-2

And who is Hiroshi Watanabe?

 

[Canuck Panda]

I mean BK not BB

 

[jonesy86]

Block-bilt turned out to be hatched by 2 former TFL members. I think there was a BK connection for the production although I only saw 2-3 sample jackets.

I would have known if they were in Oakland. LOL

 

[jonesy86]

All I know is that I saw the sample jackets for sale on eBay from 2 members (1 former/ 1 current) and they both had a few orders in with BK around the time Block-bilt was launched... Could also be that the B-B jackets were made in China since both members lived/ traveled there often. (but you didn't hear it from me)

The plot thickens.

 

[Edward]

Block-bilt turned out to be hatched by 2 former TFL members. I think there was a BK connection for the production although I only saw 2-3 sample jackets.

This I never heard. I half-remember some speculation it was connected to SimmonsBilt as it appeared around about the time that Alexander Leathers rebranded as Simmons Bilt. Obviously that was wide of the mark. Interesting the website is still up for BB; I wonder if they are still functioning. A lot of smaller labels seem to have come and gone in the last ten years, each seeking a slice of a relatively limited niche market.

The EU, despite various proposals over recent years, still doesn't seem to have made country of origin labelling compulsory - though as a technicality, a label denoting place of manufacture is necessary if, in the absence of same, the buyer could be misled as to where the garment was made. E.g. a label with a huge Union Flag or one with a US Flag would be considered misleading on a jacket made in Karachi, Pakistan - unless there was also a "Made in Pakistan" label on the garment. The law considers it fraud to mislabel a garment as manufactured elsewhere than its actual location of production. All EU businesses are held to this (and any UK or other, third-country business which wishes to sell into the EU will have to comply with EU law in this regard).

 

[Marc mndt]

E.g. a label with a huge Union Flag or one with a US Flag would be considered misleading on a jacket made in Karachi, Pakistan - unless there was also a "Made in Pakistan" label on the garment.

Like this Schott Perfecto which is probably made in China

 

[born113]

The EU, despite various proposals over recent years, still doesn't seem to have made country of origin labelling compulsory - though as a technicality, a label denoting place of manufacture is necessary if, in the absence of same, the buyer could be misled as to where the garment was made. E.g. a label with a huge Union Flag or one with a US Flag would be considered misleading on a jacket made in Karachi, Pakistan - unless there was also a "Made in Pakistan" label on the garment. The law considers it fraud to mislabel a garment as manufactured elsewhere than its actual location of production. All EU businesses are held to this (and any UK or other, third-country business which wishes to sell into the EU will have to comply with EU law in this regard).

There are always many collisions and possibilities. For example, Iron Heart jeans sold from UK is described everywhere as being made in Japan. At the same time, the inscriptions "Made in Japan" are simply absent on most of their styles. And against this background, a couple of their styles on which there is an inscription "All made in Japan" look especially funny and awkward. And the funniest part is that styles marked "All made in Japan" are only sold in Japan now
Of course, this does not necessarily mean "misleading". It can be soft logic or hybrid truth or some other modern concept.

 

[Edward]

Like this Schott Perfecto which is probably made in China

View attachment 396547

If it is (I don't know how Schott splits their stuff exactly, but I do know not everything is US made any more), to be sold in the EU it should have another label clearly stating 'Made in China' - though it seems the law accepts the other label being less prominent rather than requiring it to be as obvious as the main one in the back of the neck. Down the side-seam of the liner is a common spot, along with any cleaning instructions.

There are always many collisions and possibilities. For example, Iron Heart jeans sold from UK is described everywhere as being made in Japan. At the same time, the inscriptions "Made in Japan" are simply absent on most of their styles. And against this background, a couple of their styles on which there is an inscription "All made in Japan" look especially funny and awkward. And the funniest part is that styles marked "All made in Japan" are only sold in Japan now View attachment 396548
Of course, this does not necessarily mean "misleading". It can be soft logic or hybrid truth or some other modern concept.

I would read "all made in Japan" as intended to indicate that both the manufacture of the jeans themselves and the denim as well... Where it gets tricky of course is that so many items are assembled in one place, from components which originate in another. There's usually a formula in most jurisdictions to deal with this, though I rather like how my Wranglers are labelled as 'Made in Mexico from denim woven in the USA".

 

[Marc mndt]

For example, Iron Heart jeans sold from UK is described everywhere as being made in Japan. At the same time, the inscriptions "Made in Japan" are simply absent on most of their styles.

I'm missing your point. Made in Japan, sold in UK. It's not like they advertise it as being made in UK, nor is it implied. Right?

 

[born113]

I would read "all made in Japan" as intended to indicate that both the manufacture of the jeans themselves and the denim as well... Where it gets tricky of course is that so many items are assembled in one place, from components which originate in another.

You probably haven't read a lot of fairy tales about how all the fabric for Iron Heart's jeans is meticulously and lovingly made at a specific factory in Japan. Actually, I personally have little interest in Iron Heart now. This is just one of the brightest examples of dubious activity to put it mildly.

There's usually a formula in most jurisdictions to deal with this, though I rather like how my Wranglers are labelled as 'Made in Mexico from denim woven in the USA".

I like that kind of wording too. But if you remove the fairy tales then you have to lower prices. And not many people need it.

I'm missing your point. Made in Japan, sold in UK. It's not like they advertise it as being made in UK, nor is it implied. Right?

I mean there are very big doubts that these jeans are made in Japan. There are no "Made in Japan" inscriptions on the products themselves.

 

[Grayland]

All I know is that I saw the sample jackets for sale on eBay from 2 members (1 former/ 1 current) and they both had a few orders in with BK around the time Block-bilt was launched... Could also be that the B-B jackets were made in China since both members lived/ traveled there often. (but you didn't hear it from me)

I recall this Block Bilt thread. Pretty sure the OP was previously known as Schitzo (who spent some time in China):
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/thr...tan-italian-hh-block-bilt-cross-zip-40.95009/

 

[Edward]

You probably haven't read a lot of fairy tales about how all the fabric for Iron Heart's jeans is meticulously and lovingly made at a specific factory in Japan. Actually, I personally have little interest in Iron Heart now. This is just one of the brightest examples of dubious activity to put it mildly.

I like that kind of wording too. But if you remove the fairy tales then you have to lower prices. And not many people need it.

I've never really paid much attention to Ironheart at all, for various reasons (not least I'm just not into denim enough to even think about paying that sort of premium price). It's certainly true a lot of brands over the years have played fast and loose with their marketing and whether they are keen to admit where they make stuff (one reason I would support a stricter law), though if a brand does imply that something is made in X when it's really made in Y, whatever their motivation, they are in breach of the law. If they get caught, penalties can be pretty steep.

I recall this Block Bilt thread. Pretty sure the OP was previously known as Schitzo (who spent some time in China):
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/thr...tan-italian-hh-block-bilt-cross-zip-40.95009/

Yes, that was him. He was banned as Schitzo for various reasons a long time ago, but he's cropped up here again under new identities several times since - and been banned again. It's not uncommon for banned folks to drift back here under new identities, but they always give themselves away sooner or later. Funny old world.

 

[Canuck Panda]

The Peter's jacket was always an itch I'd like to get scratched. And the Covid years has just speed up that process. Honestly I didn't pay much attention to BK before except to use his free pics on the archive line page. This thread and others, filled with mysteries, got my attention and interests. Spent the whole night last night going back to threads as early as 2013 just to get intel on the BK brand. And now I still know nothing.

One thing for sure, the leather looks very similar to my Vicenza or horsehide from the massive Victoria company of leather supplies. I went with the russet horse unlined, in standard size 44R. It was really late last night when I found a facebook group that featured this exact jacket but in what I think is teacore (pigment) black, could be Shinki could be Badalassi could be Vicenza, just too hard to tell. It does scares me a little that the proportion looks a bit longer than the original, but I don't know the story behind that jacket, it could be a custom build or long size. This is where my leap of faith comes in. Henry Jones Sr! I hope mine will look exactly like the original and less like a San Mateo without belt loops.

To be continued...

 

[jonesy86]

 

[Mrfrown]

All I see are two quotes but no new message @Theodoros

 

[steve u]

This^^^ makes me want to buy a Jacket from Thedi Leather...

 

[Marc mndt]

When I ordered my first custom Thedi I was quoted 60 days lead time. After I put in my order Thedi had to temporarily close their workshop due to the covid lock down. Because it was my first ever custom order I was quite nervous: will I still get my jacket after these delays, will it be good? Every two/three weeks I received an update from Theodoros, letting me know he started working on the pattern, started cutting the leather etc. Eventually my jacket was delivered just within four months.

Since then I've bought many many more jackets from different makers and I have learned to be patient with custom orders.

Yes sometimes it takes a couple of days for Theodoros to reply. But remember Theodoros does all the customer contact himself, which is pretty impressive considering they have many customers, some needing more attention than others lol (93 emails!).

My first custom jacket is still my favorite. I have only good things to say about Thedi Leathers and Theodoros.

Edit: typo

 

[jonesy86]

I made the decision to answer for two things.
This Pakistani or Indian or Asian in general (I have absolutely no problem with these people, I worked in India for 10 years and I love them especially, since I have dozens of friends from there.) I have a specific problem with him, because he is a scammer and a liar.
These people have no place in the market, since they deceive their customers.
If I lie I challenge him to call me at 00306950977102 and speak to me in our native dialect since as he says he is a Greek who lives and works in Athens and who has one of the most beautiful names in the world. By the way, I am traveling to Athens tomorrow and I will be there until late on Sunday night. I am in the mood to meet him, to visit his company, in any part of Athens where he is based.
No more scammers.
Mercy that you deal with this anonymous person.
Second and foremost for me.
The one who opened the discussion on the forum is my client. The first jacket I made for him was a very difficult order and for which I worked for many evenings and endless hours until I perfected the pattern.
(over 10 sample tests) and adjust it to its dimensions.
It was a unique piece.
Lots of chats, huge messages, last minute changes, sketches, dimensions of other jackets, dimensions of his body and much more.
It was a difficult period for me as I had to be consistent with the orders of the 21+ stores that I had to deliver for the fall, of course in these and other special customer orders.
At the same time he had the patience to wait because he knew the degree of difficulty of his order and was positive with all the delay. It ended and I handed it over to him and whoever seemed satisfied with the result and probably for this reason ordered the second one.
So for the awareness of all of you, WE HAVE EXCHANGED 93 EMAILS (photo attached)
Imagine how much time I just needed for that.
Second order and again endless words, scattered thoughts in each message ,, I accepted it after I told him to gather all his thoughts in one message.
He did it.
I spent a period of 2 months and received a message that he completely changes the order (he did not ask me if it has progressed or if it has been cut) choosing another pattern with many extra changes and with a lot of extra work and thought on my part.
I ANSWERED HIM I on 19/1
(Theodoros Pampoukas <thedileathers@gmail.com>
19 Jan 2022, 8:18 a.m.
Good morning Volkan I received it. But I was thinking
I worked on the pattern in your first application, but fortunately I
did not cut the order. It is completely different what you ask for and
with many changes. I want to study. It is not easy to do all this. I
do not know what the extra cost will be but I will let you know. Of
course this request in the email regarding 127915 does not apply; It
was just a test)
I have nothing else to say about this BK guy.
You are very stupid to compare with this scammer, I feel disgusted.
I cancel the order, I will refund his money and I feel relieved.
May you all be healthy.
THEODOROS or THEDI

My jacket has a label that states that it was Made In Greece. It is a very nice jacket, and works well in Hawai'i.