Bill Kelso dark seal Liberty horse

[ProteinNerd]

Even with a degree in Psychology I'm struggling to understand these guys.

First, they say if you can't afford them, ask and they might help.
then they are in the business to make jackets and get paid for it, nothing more, nothing less.....but didn't they just offer to help pay for the jackets themselves?
They don't want to engage in silly comments but they are the ones STILL dragging this on what almost 3 weeks later?
Then they are going to sue me...

then they link to a video where the stand out comment is "they hate us because we is us and what we do is fuxxing terrible"

...so they are saying that their jackets are terrible??

surely this is a big joke and I just don't "get" it?

Either way, BK is off my list for good. Just way to irrational for me. Like HD said, sometimes orders just don't go right for whatever reason, would you really want to be dealing with this to try and get any issue sorted out?

 

[navetsea]

God Complex

 

[thor]

God Complex

Don't you mean "Zeus"?

 

[Sloan1874]

lol

 

[Monitor]

Can I exchange the professional help contribution offer for a jacket?

 

[Otter]

BK, May I make a serious suggestion to you, we know you still read here; "The Birth of a Jacket".

Get hold of a GoPro camera and film the whole process from concept through measuring, cutting and stitching. You could even film a visit to the tannery discussing leather. Most of us are fairly ignorant as regards the steps involved in the manufacturing process. It would allow your customers to see the people behind BK in their natural environment and might allow you to reconnect with some of them. Just try and keep the invective to a Chuck Yeager "Gee Shucks" level rather than a Douglas MacArthur " Look at me, I am your God" level.

 

[Sloan1874]

BK, May I make a serious suggestion to you, we know you still read here; "The Birth of a Jacket".

Get hold of a GoPro camera and film the whole process from concept through measuring, cutting and stitching. You could even film a visit to the tannery discussing leather. Most of us are fairly ignorant as regards the steps involved in the manufacturing process. It would allow your customers to see the people behind BK in their natural environment and might allow you to reconnect with some of them. Just try and keep the invective to a Chuck Yeager "Gee Shucks" level rather than a Douglas MacArthur " Look at me, I am your God" level.

Generally, I prefer hubris and invective in much the same way I like my politics: kept to a dull roar.

 

[Jägernaut]

BK, May I make a serious suggestion to you, we know you still read here; "The Birth of a Jacket".

Get hold of a GoPro camera and film the whole process from concept through measuring, cutting and stitching. You could even film a visit to the tannery discussing leather. Most of us are fairly ignorant as regards the steps involved in the manufacturing process. It would allow your customers to see the people behind BK in their natural environment and might allow you to reconnect with some of them. Just try and keep the invective to a Chuck Yeager "Gee Shucks" level rather than a Douglas MacArthur " Look at me, I am your God" level.

I've already seen Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. No thanks. This guy is a grade A douche.

 

[pawineguy]

BK, May I make a serious suggestion to you, we know you still read here; "The Birth of a Jacket".

Get hold of a GoPro camera and film the whole process from concept through measuring, cutting and stitching. You could even film a visit to the tannery discussing leather. Most of us are fairly ignorant as regards the steps involved in the manufacturing process. It would allow your customers to see the people behind BK in their natural environment and might allow you to reconnect with some of them. Just try and keep the invective to a Chuck Yeager "Gee Shucks" level rather than a Douglas MacArthur " Look at me, I am your God" level.

He did something similar on VLJ, the live development of the Hercules jacket. This is what he had to say about Aero's jacket (a very different Hercules than the one he was copying)

"My thoughts from looking at these photos is that the vendor either lie that they have the original, or if they actually have the original, they don't care at all to do a proper job. I can understand that it may be difficult and time consuming to source the right buckles (put whatever we have the customers won't notice), but it DOES NOT COST ANYTHING TO DO THE PROPER STITCHING!!!!

Also, the pattern maker is paid for the job he does. It takes the same time to make the pattern correctly and the same time to make it wrong. No extra work is required. So why they fail? Obviously they do not care.
Same thing with the lining. The "use whatever we have" attitude again prevails.

The fact that the competition is not very serious competition in terms of accuracy and quality fuels my desire to continue the research make an accurate replica of this jacket."

 

[navetsea]

Don't you mean "Zeus"?

sssttt... you'll be banished from valhalla for saying that :tape:

 

[Mark Ricketts]

The thing I find worst about the whole sorry story is that BK completely sabotaged their business over nothing, and if they are not careful they may not recover. Then another source of excellent jackets will be gone for good.

Or to put it another way: BK, KEEP QUIET PLEASE!

 

[Monitor]

^ +1

I wouldn't be surprised to see them out of business by the end of the year.

Seriously, BK, nobody cares what the drama is about - if people looking for a leather jacket stumble upon your FB page, all they will see is that there's something fishy going on and will move on to another manufacturer - and there goes your business.

 

[tropicalbob]

I hadn't looked at this thread for some time and was shocked this morning when I saw BK's recent flurry of insults, innuendos, threats, and so forth. You have to wonder if he doesn't stop at times and notice that none of the other makers ever remotely get involved in such nonsense. It's too bad.

 

[Monitor]

Best part is that other than the handful of people involved in this thread, nobody else knows what the hell are they rambling on about. Campus? Lifeless leather? Big cuffs? What?

 

[Sloan1874]

You have to wonder if he doesn't stop at times and notice that none of the other makers ever remotely get involved in such nonsense. It's too bad.

^^Extremely good point.^^

 

[Superfluous]

This is what he [BK] had to say about Aero's jacket (a very different Hercules than the one he was copying)

“My thoughts from looking at these photos is that the vendor either lie that they have the original, or if they actually have the original, they don't care at all to do a proper job. . . . Also, the pattern maker is paid for the job he does. It takes the same time to make the pattern correctly and the same time to make it wrong. No extra work is required. So why they fail? Obviously they do not care. . . . The fact that the competition is not very serious competition in terms of accuracy and quality fuels my desire to continue the research make an accurate replica of this jacket.”

Yet, BK’s Hercules replica is also arguably wrong. Here is an advertisement for an original Hercules jacket:

Note the chest pocket zipper pull.

Here is BK's Hercules repro, which BK states is 100% accurate: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...2633158&type=3

Here is a close-up of the chest pocket on BK's 100% accurate Hercules repro:

The chest pocket zipper pull on BK's 100% accurate Hercules repro is indisputably different than the original Hercules jacket depicted in Sears original advertisement. Yet, BK criticizes Aero for deviating from the original.

The revival of this thread prompted me to review my historical communications with BK. As I re-read BK’s e-mails from last year, I discovered several statements that are rather interesting when juxtaposed with BK’s recent Facebook posts. For example:

On March 27, 2015, BK posted the following on its Facebook page:

“Just to clarify and put at ease some recent concerns about our Liberty horsehide. Yes, what we did with Liberty horsehide was to replicate exactly (100%) vintage horsehide. The whole thing was done in a scientific manner by our tannery. . . . tanned in a completely different manner, the specifics of which are patented and a trade secret.”

In a March 30, 2015 Facebook post in the same thread as the above quoted post, BK further stated:

“We especially developed these leathers to satisfy our customers.”

According to BK’s Facebook posts, BK “especially developed these leathers” in conjunction with its tannery “in a scientific manner” and employing a “completely different manner” of tanning.

Yet, on September 10, 2014, BK sent me an e-mail wherein it stated:

“Tanneries will not customize according to buyers specifications. These are myths. Tanneries allow very little things that can be customized. One of them is the color. So the differences if the vendors buy from the same tannery are not due to the specifications but most likely due to the fact that they purchase different items.”

Hmmm.

On March 27, 2015, BK posted the following on its Facebook page:

“We developed these leathers for the purists. Those who look to buy exact replicas of original vintage jackets. With this leather we literally resurrected vintage leather jackets and can now offer you jackets that look exactly like NOS vintage jackets. Other makers use various kinds of leathers but their jackets never look right. They never look real.”

In a March 30, 2015 Facebook post in the same thread as the above quoted post, BK further stated:

“We're not bashing the competition just making clear that you will not find this leather elsewhere. We especially developed these leathers to satisfy our customers, give them great quality, the closest to the real thing, something new that no one else can provide. That's not bashing, it's called winning over the competition.”

According to BK’s Facebook posts, “no one else can provide” a vintage looking leather and “other makers use various kinds of leather” that do not have a vintage appearance and “they never look real.”

Yet, on September 15, 2014, BK sent me an e-mail wherein it stated:

“A secret about Shinki, often not told, is that Shinki's leathers best match the leathers used on Vintage jackets. They achieved this because they tried to match the leathers appearance (and the Japanese are very good at that) to serve the local demand. In contrast, Italian and other tanneries never bothered to do that, they just sell whatever they produce and often resist to alter the specs.”

Hmmm.

In a September 10, 2014 e-mail, BK wrote:

“In reality, Chapman and Himel do have access to other leathers, including those used by BK, but they elect to pay more for Shinki because they believe in the virtues of Shinki leather. They have access to Liberty . . . they believe in the virtues of Shinki because Shinki is still the leader in the market. Everybody likes it. . . . We are now seriously considering stocking some Shinki too. I will let you know when it arrives.”

In the same September 10 e-mail, BK also stated:

“If we had no customs issues we’d be using Shinki too from day 1. For the same reasons GW and Himel did.”

In the same September 10, 2014 e-mail, BK observed that, in comparison to its Victory HH, “Liberty is the second best.”

In e-mails, BK also questioned whether Insurrection’s and Horween's advertised “full grain” leathers were in fact full grain:

In the above-quoted September 10, 2014 e-mail, BK wrote:

“We have serious doubts that the Vincenza is full grain and we may commission a laboratory to make some tests. We think that Insurrection claims about it being full grain are not right. They might have been lead to believe it's full grain but we think it's not.”

And:

“Sure Thurston Bros as well as GW know about Victoria but chose to buy from the other tannery for their own reasons which I am not aware of. . . . We understand that the horsehide from the other tannery IS NOT Full Grain.”

And:

“We have yet to see a Horween full grain leather. Maybe there is but I have not seen it.”

In a May 15, 2014 e-mail, BK wrote:

“The full grain hides Carrie advertises are cowhide, that's why she avoids to use the word ‘horsehide’ and instead says ‘leather’.”

In a September 9, 2014 e-mail, BK wrote:

“FYI what the other vendor advertises as full grain is not. We are going to commission a lab to make test and will reveal everything. It's not going to be fun, but we want the truth.”

Lastly, BK has offered a free jacket to at least one person, and perhaps others, in return for posting a review of the jacket.

I wouldn't be surprised to see them out of business by the end of the year.

The over/under is 18 months. I choose the under.

 

[Monitor]

Christ, Superfluous, you're killing them here!

 

[Sloan1874]

I'm sure they'll claim consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, but, phew, they're a jacket maker equivalent of a weather vane!

 

[Otter]

Free stuff in return for a favourable review is a very commonplace tactic. Beware of unbiased product reviews and take a broad spectrum of results when you consider purchasing any major item.

 

[Jägernaut]

Christ, Superfluous, you're killing them here!

Superfluous has no conscience. He won't hesitate to shoot fish in a barrel.