Bill Kelso dark seal Liberty horse

[nick123]

I think Schitz has a fair point, and I don't think he means to be hateful or any of that. But the thing is, why put that stuff on facebook when it could possibly upset someone? By upset, I don't mean just tick off the PC crowd. But actually really hurt someone's feelings. That's why I try to not use any of that language on social media, because while I might think it's light hearted, there might be someone out there who's sensitive to it. Instead of posting that type of humor, I just poke fun at myself.

 

[Otter]

The vey crux of internet communications. Without face to face contact you may be saying something in jest but nobody can tell. You have to remember once it is on the internet it is there forever, even in search engines cached versions.

 

[handymike]

These are the moments I'm really glad I'm not signed up on Facebook, and I can't see all the details.

 

[tropicalbob]

I think Schitz has a fair point, and I don't think he means to be hateful or any of that. But the thing is, why put that stuff on facebook when it could possibly upset someone? By upset, I don't mean just tick off the PC crowd. But actually really hurt someone's feelings. That's why I try to not use any of that language on social media, because while I might think it's light hearted, there might be someone out there who's sensitive to it. Instead of posting that type of humor, I just poke fun at myself.

That's because you're a decent soul, Nick. I seem to have missed Schitzo's FL swan song, but I had noticed certain snarky comments he made to other Loungers and his lengthy diatribes were beginning to remind me of Captain Queeg's meltdown at the end of "The Caine Mutiny." More than anything, it's always sad to see someone reveal himself to be so shabby.

 

[Mark Ricketts]

I do like the way that the 50% off offer is only open to those who state they are offended by the language used. Now the only way you can take up the offer shows you are a shameless hypocrite who only supports LBGTQ+ members of the community until you can save a few shillings.

 

[Edward]

The vey crux of internet communications. Without face to face contact you may be saying something in jest but nobody can tell. You have to remember once it is on the internet it is there forever, even in search engines cached versions.

Techies will tell you that anything you write on the internet should be treated in the same manner as what you put on a postcard. With my professional, lawyerly head on (and defamation being an area in particular I've been looking at for damn near twenty years), I'd say it's always a bad idea to put anything in print you might not want quoted back at you later on. That's what we lawyers call 'maintaining plausible deniability'. As endless celebrities who strike out on Twitter nowadays have found, hell, as no less than Microsoft found back during the days of the anti-trust trial, nothing on the internet or in a "private" email is ever truly deleted. Think thrice, type nice.

These are the moments I'm really glad I'm not signed up on Facebook, and I can't see all the details.

I'm not signed up to the BK page, so I wasn't previously aware of it. Nothing much to see, really.... it's just some angry boys being angry. I guess it'll do well enough for them if the Top Gear crowd get into leathers.

 

[Otter]

God bless Google cache! There have been a couple of threads that were removed that I wanted to see the conclusion of. There, Google's cached version is your friend.

 

[Fanch]

Stuff written down on the internet should be handled the same way as love letters that should be written down only in the sand with the tide coming in.

 

[bretron]

Just got an olive branch email from Andy, passing along the indefinite offer to me to fix the sleeve cuffs on my jacket free of charge (including all shipping). I can't tell you how nervous I was to open it, and how relieved I was to read it.

Appreciate it, Andy

 

[A-1]

Well, reading BK’s Facebook and the latest posts here was quite interesting. I must say, I’m in the camp of Superfluous concerning the discriminating Facebook stuff.

And yet I try to take their perspective. I’d say the more BK tries to redeem themselves, the worse it seems to get. In my opinion, they are just way better in making great vintage-style jackets than in promoting themselves, especially in social media.

However, they try to justify themselves on fb for the stuff that is written about them here because we’re the main target group of the company, hence with all the negative talk comes a big loss of cheese.
It’s a little bit of a vicious circle because of the lack of social skills.

They should just focus on making the jackets and direct communication with the customer about his/her exact wishes (incl. sleeve width).

Concerning the sleeve width, I’m repeating myself, I really like it the way it is on my Aeronaut. And the russet is a lovely leather. Not too heavy and a great allrounder. I don’t think I’ll ever need another leather jacket.

HOWEVER, as much as I love my jacket, their constant use of the superlative form and their never-ending exaggerations are annoying and childish.

Peace!

 

[pawineguy]

For Little League? That just goes to show the way that society is heading.

That's not the point, the point is that it's really a matter of good practices that most offensive posts should never make it on a company's or organization's Facebook pages - that's why they have filters. Eliminates the debate of whether something should be deleted when it never appears at all, and silly free speech discussions.

 

[pawineguy]

Just got an olive branch email from Andy, passing along the indefinite offer to me to fix the sleeve cuffs on my jacket free of charge (including all shipping). I can't tell you how nervous I was to open it, and how relieved I was to read it.

Appreciate it, Andy

I'm very glad to hear that.

 

[LouisBailie]

Also been thinking about a Kelso jacket for some time , but then just when i get close to pulling the trigger they either come out with comments like above that i find really distasteful , or they rubbish their previous 'this is the best leather' and announce that their new leather is now the best ? [huh] . How long do we have to wait until they have the finest full grian veg tanned unicorn front quarters , that blow Victory out of the water ?

They have slightly contradicted them selves ( not for the first time ). There new leather is Scientifically developed , yet at the same time is tanned in the old traditional ways ( i'm sure not much science involved ? )

why aren't you signed on with your other screen name, mistake?

 

[HoosierDaddy]

It's just plain nutty with a lack of good business sense (or common sense) to allow 'anyone' to post their snarky diatribes and then a long, just as ridiculous, essay by the same offender on a Facebook page that was set up to advertise BK products. BK's statements that they won't delete posts or sensor 'any' posts because of 'free speech' is just another detrimental weirdness that lacks professionalism. Can you imagine any other major jacket manufacturer permitting these kind of posts or behavior on their advertising site?? This is just another example that leaves some of us still shaking our heads in bewilderment. This BK way of thinking can cheapen any respectability concerning their site as it would even this forum if it had a more 'practically anything goes' attitude. Then a desperate 50% discount to kiss and make up just adds to the lunacy. [huh]
HD

 

[navetsea]

among the big brands, their website is such a joy to browse through, 360 view of a jacket fitted on mannequin is really cool.

 

[thor]

Last time I looked they didn't have the Dodger or the Wingman on their site.

 

[Sloan1874]

It's just plain nutty with a lack of good business sense (or common sense) to allow 'anyone' to post their snarky diatribes and then a long, just as ridiculous, essay by the same offender on a Facebook page that was set up to advertise BK products. BK's statements that they won't delete posts or sensor 'any' posts because of 'free speech' is just another detrimental weirdness that lacks professionalism. Can you imagine any other major jacket manufacturer permitting these kind of posts or behavior on their advertising site?? This is just another example that leaves some of us still shaking our heads in bewilderment. This BK way of thinking can cheapen any respectability concerning their site as it would even this forum if it had a more 'practically anything goes' attitude. Then a desperate 50% discount to kiss and make up just adds to the lunacy. [huh]
HD

Finally went and had a look at the essay... Jings... BK must really be nuts if they gave the very person who started this a discount too. Actually, if you want to compare and contrast how other makers use their FB pages, and have a wee chuckle into the bargain, check the cri de coeur John Chapman posted about what he did with his mobile phone. Talk about a long distance call...

 

[HoosierDaddy]

On John's personal Facebook page..??

 

[Sloan1874]

No, Good Wear: https://www.facebook.com/goodwearleather?fref=ts

 

[Superfluous]

More nuggets from BK's infamous FB page:

"Bill Kelso Mfg: Unfortunately, the slandering against us continues. Just because we were democratic enough to allow freedom of speech were accused that we support homophobia."

Wrong. BK did not merely "allow freedom of speech." Rather, in addition to "allowing" others to post offensive material, BK independently and affirmatively stated that its customers "aren't faggots." Own the statement Andy/BK. Don't mischaracterize and minimize your conduct. Separate from what others posted on your FB page -- which you permitted in the name of "free speech" -- you posted your own derogatory reference to homosexuals. You, BK, stated that your customers "aren't faggots." Own it. More importantly, apologize for making the patently offensive and inappropriate statement!

Ps: "Slander" requires a false statement of fact. I have not seen any false statements of fact made about BK. To the contrary, the opinions posted here have been predicated on accurate quotes from BK's FB page. This is the antithesis of slander for several reasons.

"Adam Cooper: So f*ck right off you f*cking small minded Barstard C*nts."

Kudos to BK for providing a FB page where people can exercise there free speech rights in this manner. While I wholeheartedly agree that free speech should be cherished and exalted, I question the wisdom of a business allowing this type of free speech on a website intended to promote the company's products. IMHO, this is unwise. I doubt that anyone will purchase a BK jacket based on BK's willingness to allow this type of free speech on its FB page. Conversely, I suspect some -- perhaps only a few, but some -- will elect not to patronize BK based upon this content.

As others have observed, free speech is generally not punishable, nor subject to censorship, but the content remains appropriately subject to criticism and contempt. One cannot post reprehensible content, than attempt to avoid criticism and contempt by citing his/her right to speak freely. That right only protects one from punishment or censorship. Thus, while BK may not be punished for its free speech, nor censored, BK cannot avoid responsibility and accountability for its speech. BK is subject to responsive free speech in the form of contempt and condemnation. That is precisely what has occurred here.