Best cross zip or double rider jacket

[dannyk]

Is that asking price or sold? We can also add Grailed to look for Perfectos. Grailed is a lot more high end fashion and modern Japanese and cross over fashion work wear stuff….but they have a buttload of Perfectos all the time.

If you live near a store that sells quality jackets, that would be a place to start and go try on a couple.
A used Schott is not a bad idea either. But beware, a lot of the ones on eBay from Japan are pretty old; which is not a bad thing at all, but they will have a slightly different cut and fit.
@Madhouse27 I'm seeing more like $500 on eBay, at least for a decent one that's not a scam.

 

[The Lost Cowboy]

one doesn't need to mock the entire generation of currently living human being just to say he makes good quality jackets

That might be true but that's not what you originally said. Rather, you derided his writing as incoherent and my point was it is not at all incoherent. You might not agree with what he says but the way he says it is rational and lucid enough if one takes the time to actually read it.

As for mocking an entire generation, writers in the West have been doing that at least since the Enlightenment. It's not new.

 

[TartuWolf]

I'm sorry to be the negative nanny here, but this is such a low effort post.
No problem in terms of hyping people up to discuss stuff, but if you want an actual answer then you're not providing nearly enough context / purpose or even asking a specific enough question.
Don't just dump a vague "what's the best...?" question as your first post.
Rather spend time researching the forum, gathering info. "I did search for an answer on this topic, but didn’t find quite what I’m looking for." Of course you didn't find it because you're not looking for anything more specific than a "black cross zip" in a broad range of pricing.
The answers you are getting are a great example of the generosity of this forum. Hope you appreciate it.
And hope you find what you are looking for. Or at least narrow down what you are looking for with the help of all the kind folks here.

 

[Aloysius]

one doesn't need to mock the entire generation of currently living human being just to say he makes good quality jackets

I don't think he's doing that. In a way he is basically writing a long form version of an adage I've heard from both Russians and Poles (@Will Zach probably knows the original expression): "I'm not rich enough to buy cheap things"; in other words, flimsy products, while seemingly accessible, are in fact a luxury because they will require quick replacing. This is also a pretty strong adage in British culture. If you look closely, HM King Charles has many patched suits and shoes.

I mentioned in another thread that my tailor shop has altered 60+ year old trousers for customers. This is because in less prosperous times, across all classes hard-wearing items were the rule of the day. Their fabrics were heavier, coats were made with generous inlay to alter in case you gained weight, etc. And this wasn't just true at the high end. Mainstream trousers at a shop would get more pressing steps in the factory than modern high end trousers get.

Where having something good enough that you can hand it down to your son is now a mark of luxury, then it was if anything a practical step. And you don't even have to go as far back as the prewar "Golden Age" to find this; my mother has mentioned that even women's dresses used to come with more inlay and ability to alter, in the 80s, which today's mainstream clothing simply doesn't.

Essentially he is criticizing something that is downstream from an extremely affluent society.

 

[dannyk]

I don't think he's doing that. In a way he is basically writing a long form version of an adage I've heard from both Russians and Poles (@Will Zach probably knows the original expression): "I'm not rich enough to buy cheap things"; in other words, flimsy products, while seemingly accessible, are in fact a luxury because they will require quick replacing. This is also a pretty strong adage in British culture. If you look closely, HM King Charles has many patched suits and shoes.
View attachment 678419


I mentioned in another thread that my tailor shop has altered 60+ year old trousers for customers. This is because in less prosperous times, across all classes hard-wearing items were the rule of the day. Their fabrics were heavier, coats were made with generous inlay to alter in case you gained weight, etc. And this wasn't just true at the high end. Mainstream trousers at a shop would get more pressing steps in the factory than modern high end trousers get.

Where having something good enough that you can hand it down to your son is now a mark of luxury, then it was if anything a practical step. And you don't even have to go as far back as the prewar "Golden Age" to find this; my mother has mentioned that even women's dresses used to come with more inlay and ability to alter, in the 80s, which today's mainstream clothing simply doesn't.

Essentially he is criticizing something that is downstream from an extremely affluent society.

This isn’t the point of this thread so I’ll say this and move on. Cause it’s been done to death over the years here. If all he said was what you focused on you’d be correct. But it’s filled with callouts of what makes someone masculine, America first, unclean lazy, drug users, saying political correctness which is such a loaded thing its meaning is lost these days. Saying people don’t have traditional parents and values anymore, people are slackers and slobs, yeah it pretty much asserts everyone today is awful, weak, and miserable and everyone from his generation is right, good, and strong. Ignoring the various ways the world has gotten way better in modern times. Sure things are lost they always are. No one time is necessarily better or worse. But that’s the stuff in the ramblings that turn people off, get them angry, or make them hate Stu. He makes incredible jackets and his work is impeccable. The jacket world is better with him in it. Each person here can pick or choose whether they shop there or not. People who have had personal convos with him have said he can actually be quite kind and nice. This place isn’t the forum to discuss that especially since this debate has been done to death. I’m sure any old timers here see this topic come up and just totally check out whatever side they take. It’s like ugh this again haha. I just want to point out what it actually is people take issue with. It’s not his work, his craftsmanship, his approach to old school clothing values and making. Yes clothes used to be made to a standard and then mass production ruined them for a long time, and now diversity of product, quality, and choice is back. It’s a golden age. A golden age he helped usher in. But it’s his language, views, and for lack of better words politics that people take umbrage with.

 

[Alfonzo Von Doom]

Schott is the OG, and Vanson is the real deal. So, if you go with one of those, it’s hard to ho wrong.

However, you won’t know what you like till you try it on. These jackets are short and they tend to be heavy. Designed for motorcycle riding, and you have a lot of trade offs to suit that purpose, that you may not like for everyday living. The heft, as mentioned, the cut which is designed for sitting on a motorcycle may be too short for your tastes for walking around, the stiffness, are all potential things that may turn you off.

Then too, it’s not as versatile a jacket as others. Pretty strictly casual.

Another problem, at least for me is that I look like a thug, or a villain in these jackets. I either look very tough or like I’m trying to look very tough, but unless I was playing a bad guy extra in a bad movie, this is not a look that works on me.

They look really good on lots of other people, ranging from playful to edgy to cool to roguish and intriguing, but on me, I look like an A-hole. So not what I would want to cultivate.

How will it look on you? More importantly how will you feel it looks on you?

You need to go try some on and see what you think.

 

[Canuck Panda]

There is always better, but the Schott 613/618 original fit is pretty damn good for the Brando style xzip jacket. It‘s a pretty good starting point. You can find good deals on used market or buy brand new one from Schott and return if sizing don‘t work for you. With Y’2 you‘ll need to try it on in person to find your size before committing to the price tag, same with all the other expensive ones out there.

 

[dannyk]

There is always better, but the Schott 613/618 original fit is pretty damn good for the Brando style xzip jacket. It‘s a pretty good starting point. You can find good deals on used market or buy brand new one from Schott and return if sizing don‘t work for you. With Y’2 you‘ll need to try it on in person to find your size before committing to the price tag, same with all the other expensive ones out there.
View attachment 678494

Schott 618HH that I put stars on and bought the collar for was my first jacket. Then I went through an early style Oakbrook, multiple vintage Schotts, a ton of Vansons, a couple G-1s, 4-5 Cals, a 50s Grais, two vintage jackets with no labels left from the 50s, several military jackets new and old, Alpha, vintage Gap suede jacket, tons of denim from the US, Canada and Japan. My only two leather jackets left are 1. A no name 80s jacket that isn’t “nice” leather but thick and tough, with a super warm zip in liner, and that Schott 618. I gave up chasing the perfect jacket or better jacket. And decided I would never make them mine, and give them that look we all love in vintage jackets that I want to find in my own one day. Jackets need to be worn and worn regularly and appreciated. I ended up at where I started, stopped babying them, put some badges on them and actually started loving them. The only two I still have interest in are a LW J-23 but don’t have that kind of money for and a Vanson C2. I had one that was so good looking but just slightly too big. I want a 90s C2 in my actual size.

I guess what I’m saying is there will always be new, better, experimental, different leather, a new maker. And it’s fun and the chase is good. But eventually I decided good is good enough. What do I actually like and want to wear? I could have saved myself so much time, money and headaches! That’s my advice to any new buyer. You’ll probably make all the same mistakes we do. And may become addicted to the search and chase. Which if you have the time, money and closet space hey knock yourself out. But really think about what it is you want, and what you’ll actually be using it for. Sometimes you’ll find all you need is 1 or 2.

 

[Will Zach]

Schott 618HH that I put stars on and bought the collar for was my first jacket. Then I went through an Oakbrook, multiple vintage Schotts, a ton of Vansons, a couple G-1s, 4-5 Cals, a 50s Grais, two vintage jackets with no labels left from the 50s, several military jackets new and old, Alpha, vintage Gap suede jacket, tons of denim from the US, Canada and Japan. My only two leather jackets left are 1. A no name 80s jacket that isn’t “nice” leather but thick and tough, with a super warm zip in liner, and that Schott 618. I gave up chasing the perfect jacket or better jacket. And decided I would never make them mine, and give them that look we all love in vintage jackets that I want to find in my own one day. Jackets need to be worn and worn regularly and appreciated. I ended up at where I started, stopped babying them, put some badges on them and actually started loving them. The only two I still have interest in are a LW J-23 but don’t have that kind of money for and an abandon C2. I had one that was so good looking but just slightly too big. I want a 90s C2 in my actual size.

I guess what I’m saying is there will always be new, better, experimental, different leather, a new maker. And it’s fun and the chase is good. But eventually I decided good is good enough. What do I actually like and want to wear? I could have saved myself so much time, money and headaches! That’s my advice to any new buyer. You’ll probably make all the same mistakes we do. And may become addicted to the search and chase. Which if you have the time, money and closet space hey knock yourself out. But really thinj about what it is you want, and what you’ll actually be using it for. Sometimes you’ll find all you need is 1 or 2.

What is your size in C2? 36? I can be on the lookout. 90% of them are out of Japan though, through tons of arbitrage players. But they can be found stateside too.

 

[dannyk]

What is your size in C2? 36? I can be on the lookout. 90% of them are out of Japan though, through tons of arbitrage players. But they can be found stateside too.

Yup! The one I had I got a killer deal on it was like 200-250 if I remember and for that money I was like hey I can’t go wrong. I kept it for like 2 years but only wore 7-8 times. Just wasn’t quite right. Obviously the chances of me finding one for that price these days isn’t going to happen. But hey good deals do still come up now and then. So thanks I appreciate you doing so and you even got the size right!

 

[Pkshfo74036]

Since you're asking for our opinions, I'll give you mine. Real McCoy's J24 or JH-1.

I consider them a very solid premium choice, excellent leather, pattern, construction quality and they hold their value well. You just need to make sure you figure out the sizing, definitely need to visit a physical store and try them on. This is made harder by the fact that recently they changed their sizing, the newer season releases now run more true to size, where as past seasons ran a size small.

 

[El Marro]

I'd hate for this thread to devolve into another "let's bash Stu because he is so damn politically incorrect we can't stand him" thread. But whatever. I agree with him for the most part and respect him for standing by his position; but even if I didn't, I could still see that his writing is lucid and well developed.

I agree that we are getting into the weeds and I helped guide us here, but calling that meandering angry diatribe “lucid and well developed” is giving praise where praise isn’t due. I think I was a lot closer with batsh#t crazy to be honest.

 

[The Lost Cowboy]

I agree that we are getting into the weeds and I helped guide us here, but calling that meandering angry diatribe “lucid and well developed” is giving praise where praise isn’t due. I think I was a lot closer with batsh#t crazy to be honest.

I won't quibble with 'meandering diatribe'. That essay from Stu is definitely a diatribe. However, that's not automatically bad.

As for meandering, I see that as a function of his writing style (which is quite polished, actually) and far less a sign of 'bat shit crazy'.

I'm perfectly amenable to disagreement about Stu; but I'll vocalize my support of him on any threads that move in the Stu-bashing direction. This isn't the place for me to defend the substance of his argument (because we would get into politics) but his writing is not inane. It has a polished and identifiable style, is thesis driven and organized around theses, and utilizes grammatical structures that make it less accessible to the layman but nonetheless high quality. Stu was a doctoral student in English literature - he can write.

At least you and I agree that he makes a fine jacket. That's enough for me.

 

[El Marro]

At least you and I agree that he makes a fine jacket. That's enough for me.

Yes we do.
The OP sounds like he is at the beginning of his jacket journey, but if he hangs around here long enough, he will probably own a Lost Worlds at some point, and he will undoubtedly be impressed.

 

[The Lost Cowboy]

Yes we do.
The OP sounds like he is at the beginning of his jacket journey, but if he hangs around here long enough, he will probably own a Lost Worlds at some point, and he will undoubtedly be impressed.

Agreed.

 

[MrProper]

Hello all,

New to this website and I don’t know how I lived so long without it. Y’all are making me go down some deep rabbit holes.

I did search for an answer on this topic, but didn’t find quite what I’m looking for. I’m looking to get my first black cross zip double riders jacket. Used or new, budget between $700-$2k. I’m seeing a lot of brands discussed, but I would love some opinions on best fit, leather, craftsmanship, value retention, etc. I’ve primarily been looking at Y’2 and Schott so far, but it seems like there’s so many smaller awesome brands out there. Which ones should I be looking at?!

Thanks!

My tip: look at pictures and then buy what you spontaneously like.
And then it's a bull's eye or just the first step on the learning journey towards a bull's eye. Whatever, don't make a science out of it and try to clarify all eventualities in advance. Life is too short for that
I once had a crosszip made of fabric as a child and then never again. And I hadn't even given it a second thought. A Crosszip was simply not on my radar.
Until one day it played me a picture of a Ridley and I spontaneously fell in love. A very short time later the order was on its way and I'm still happy. Is it perfect? Probably not. But it never occurred to me to replace them.
So just get started and have fun.

This photo was the trigger.



And this is the result.

 

[Bfd70]

That might be true but that's not what you originally said. Rather, you derided his writing as incoherent and my point was it is not at all incoherent. You might not agree with what he says but the way he says it is rational and lucid enough if one takes the time to actually read it.

As for mocking an entire generation, writers in the West have been doing that at least since the Enlightenment. It's not new.

I for one like the trash talk. If you work hard to be great i see no problem with thumping your chest. I e it over and over on Sundays during the NFL. Season and no one bats an eye

 

[tamoko]

I can tell only what right for me.
General don't again Repros wear some. But special for double brest "biker rocker" best are real vintage brocken with character biker more lose roomy. Found my as 50th 60th Harley some source told made by Schott for Harley. In this budget I think it is possible to find just a size if 44 and above is a pretty heavy to find.