Beaver X Question

[Joao Encarnado]

No one knows. It was probably a $40 hat.

 

[jlee562]

No, Xs don't denote 10%, for example, the 7x clear beaver was all beaver. Nobody knows what the exact mix is.

 

[Joao Encarnado]

No, Xs don't denote 10%, for example, the 7x clear beaver was all beaver. Nobody knows what the exact mix is.

On a recent discussion here on the lounge, we almost come to a conclusion that the X are related to the price of a hat.
A Stetson 100 would be a $100 hat
A 4x hat would be a $40 hat.
The 7XCB would be a $70 hat.

 

[Landman]

On a recent discussion here on the lounge, we almost come to a conclusion that the X are related to the price of a hat.
A Stetson 100 would be a $100 hat
A 4x hat would be a $40 hat.
The 7XCB would be a $70 hat.

In my opinion, the specific price per "X" theory depends too much on the time period and is not a valid theory to apply over a wide range of time.

For example, I have a mid to late 1950's 3X Stetson Open Road with the original Stetson factory price tag of $15.00. That would be a rate of $5 per "X". I doubt you could buy a 7X Clear Beaver for $35.00 during that same time period.

About the only safe assumption you can make is that the more X's, the better quality the hat.

 

[Joao Encarnado]

In my opinion, the specific price per "X" theory depends too much on the time period and is not a valid theory to apply over a wide range of time.

For example, I have a mid to late 1950's 3X Stetson Open Road with the original Stetson factory price tag of $15.00. That would be a rate of $5 per "X". I doubt you could buy a 7X Clear Beaver for $35.00 during that same time period.

Maybe when the X's system was created it matched to this theory and was not updated in fear of mistaken the costumers.
Don't know when the 20X/30X beaver first appeared but probably was the first update to the X's system.

About the only safe assumption you can make is that the more X's, the better quality the hat.

True and today the lowest beaver blend hat is 4X (at least under Stetson/Resistol brands) and those are sold new on stores for more than $100.
Resistol doesn't make 3x beaver hats for more than 30 years.

 

[TheDane]

Do we know, if a contemporary "4X Beaver" contain any beaver at all? My guess is, that it doesn't.

 

[Joao Encarnado]

Do we know, if a contemporary "4X Beaver" contain any beaver at all? My guess is, that it doesn't.

If it doesn't contain any beaver at all than it's mislabeled and induce the consumer in error. Don't know who regulates/controls this or if it's allowed to happen.

Resistol didn't reply to me about about the 4x buffalo "recipe". I think if I were in the US I might have gone to a lawyer and research if the hat they list on their website advertised as containing FUR really have a tag stating "100% WOOL" in it (like mine have). Even if buffalo "fur" might be considered "wool" I might win. I don't want a WOOL hat, I want a FUR hat and to me FUR is not WOOL nor WOOL is FUR.

 

[gtdean48]

...
The 7XCB would be a $70 hat.

7X CB was same as a Fifty....

 

[TheDane]

Joao: It's completely unregulated. You can write, whatever you like. "X" just means ... "X". "X" could be anything - also "0" as in zero [huh]

 

[dh66]

How much beaver is in this 1000x Stetson straw hat??
Just to illustrate the Dane's point.

 

[DJH]

7X CB was same as a Fifty....

Yes, a lot of the old ads showed the 7XCB as costing $50 and I once owned a 7XCB that was also marked on the sweatband as being a Stetson 50.

 

[ingineer]

I looked up the US FTC laws ( very convoluted ) and they specifically exclude labeling on hats and gloves, therefore a company can call their hats anything they like, On the opposite side to claim something is 100% wool it cannot have any fur in it, since that does not come from sheep.
I am amused with my Dynafelt western that is labeled 85% wool , 10% fur, 5% other fibers.
Caveat emptor
Richard

 

[Joao Encarnado]

Joao: It's completely unregulated. You can write, whatever you like. "X" just means ... "X". "X" could be anything - also "0" as in zero [huh]

Isn't this the same as advertising a hamburger stating it's beef when it doesn't have any?

How much beaver is in this 1000x Stetson straw hat??
Just to illustrate the Dane's point.

A 1000X straw hat doesn't have printed on the sweatband 1000 X's and "BEAVER" like the alleged "4X beaver hat that do not have any beaver fur at all" have it printed on the sweatband, so I think this case does not illustrate Ole point.
At first I thought the X's on a straw were related to how tight the wave is, but I never understood it. Maybe it's the quality of the straw itself?

I looked up the US FTC laws ( very convoluted ) and they specifically exclude labeling on hats and gloves, therefore a company can call their hats anything they like, On the opposite side to claim something is 100% wool it cannot have any fur in it, since that does not come from sheep.

So in the US, wool only comes from sheep?

 

[WesternHatWearer]

So in the US, wool only comes from sheep?

I personally consider the Buffalo collection by Stetson to be a wool. The hat has the feel/ hand of wool. These hats respond a great deal to steam, shaping, and other behaviors very close to that of wool. I have heard of others considering buffalo to be a fur felt; I do not agree but that is based on the hand of the product and personal opinion.

 

[JoeyC]

I looked up the US FTC laws ( very convoluted ) and they specifically exclude labeling on hats and gloves, therefore a company can call their hats anything they like, On the opposite side to claim something is 100% wool it cannot have any fur in it, since that does not come from sheep.
I am amused with my Dynafelt western that is labeled 85% wool , 10% fur, 5% other fibers.
Caveat emptor
Richard

What amuses me is when they label a 200X hat as containing 50% beaver and 50% CASHMERE, it's wool!!!. Perhaps a finer, albeit more delicate wool, it's still wool and not a fur. Another thing most of us are aware of, manufacturers add X's based on the jewelry they add to the hat, and nothing at all to do with the quality of the felt itself, eg. sterling buckle set, add some X's.

 

[Interbak]

So in the US, wool only comes from sheep?

Lots of other animals produce wool, Llama, Alpaca, but none of them are used for hat felt that I know of. I'm not sure when the X's really began to loose all meaning, but I can show you two Stetson Open Roads in my collection, a 3X from the '50s and a 4X from the '70s and the 3X is far nicer felt than the later 4X, so it's been going down hill for decades.

B

 

[barrowjh]

I think the root of this was inflation. The quality of the fur felt was diluted at approximately the same rate the value of our currency was being diluted. The manufacturers/sellers did not want to raise prices, so they diluted quality first, raised prices later. This exacerbated deteriorating economics, as hat wearing and hat sales were declining also, 1-2 punch that killed all of them.

In the 50's I think 3X Beaver for $15 existed alongside Beaver 25 ($25) and the 7XCB ($50) for a while. Eventually the word 'Beaver' was dropped and that is a killer clue. I am suspicious of a 3X Beaver with a clear plastic tip (mid-50's and later) and I presume a 3X without the word beaver is rabbit.

In my collection of Resistol's sometimes I think the 3X Beaver, Beaver 25, Beaver 50, and Beaver 100 all have about the same beaver content, but were produced at different times and the same felt content simply cost more. There are other times when I am impressed with the hand of the Beaver 50 and the Beaver 100 and am not so sure. I have a 'real' Resistol 3X Beaver San Ant (no tip lining, classic Byer-Rolnick gold crest on white) and a Resistol 3X Beaver San Ant with a clear plastic tip in the liner (less colorful crest) and the hand of the felt is VERY different, the clear plastic 3XB is not as good a quality as the 3XB with the classic crest.

The 'real' 3XB San Ant -


3XB San Ant w/clear plastic liner -