Attorneys and Barristers of the Lounge

[Dreispitz]

Yes, but the beers are first-class! I lived in Regensburg for about a year from August 1998 to about July 1999. If I remember rightly, the Thurn & Taxis brewery was bought out right before I left. All of the locals that I knew scoffed at the Thurn & Taxis Hefeweizen, but I thought it was fantastic.

The other thing that I've missed is an Italian frizzantino (sp?). It was a very lightly sparkling Italian wine, not very expensive, but very drinkable. Very nice for a warm afternoon of sitting on the balcony.


Truth be told, I find most of the German wines to have a little too much of a one-note character for my tastes. (They're eintoenig. At least I think that's the word.) With that said, I did live outside of Stuttgart, actually closer to Schorndorf, for a year in the late 80s, and the Swaben make a number of nice wines.

As regards the boutique winemakers, that was one of the things that I always liked about Germany when I lived there. I drank local wines at home, but if I went on a weekend trip, even for a relatively short distance, I might not be able to get my local wine on the trip & would have to try something new. That was always fun.

A note on linguistic & legal differences: First of all, I invite anybody knowledgeable in German law to correct me if I'm wrong on this. In America, we have an offense called "public intoxication." Not a particularly serious offense, but it sounds pretty stern. In Germany, if my translation is correct, it's called "public over-enjoyment of alcohol." Now, that doesn't sound nearly as bad, does it? lol

Hello Spats!

Public intoxication? Guess our proper term is life style and it is no offence

The sparkling wine might have been Prosecco. It still is an "in" drink.

Regensburg! I am living not far from there, actually. However, it is far enough not to get Thurn und Taxis beer, here. There are so many breweries.

I made a new discovery that I will share. There is a bio brewery called Riedenburger. They brew some ecologic beer out of some forgotten medieval crops one has nor heared of for a long time. Do not ask me for an English translation. It is simply cerial that was available in the medieval times to produce some malt.

They have a website: www.emmerbier.de



I am having one, right now

 

[Atticus Finch]

I have seen in this very thread a semblance of a ranking or cast system...

“This swanky venue resembles a 1930’s-1940’s club comprised of like minded people who share an interest and passion in the ‘Golden Era’. So stop on in, pull up a chair, order a drink and discuss the finer things in life, from cars to hats and clothes, music, aircraft, WWII, movies and more”.

Well, darn. I certainly don’t consider myself an elitist…at least not because I have a law license. If I have somehow inadvertently communicated such, I earnestly apologize. And I’m not sure I agree that elitism in our profession is the very reason why the general public has a poor perception of what an attorney is. If pressed, I expect that I could point out a few other reasons that might contribute at least as much to the problem. But that is best left for another discussion in a different venue.

Truthfully, I have been worried about this thread since it started. I have been especially worried about my decision to discuss legal “war stories” and said so in an earlier post. I never dreamed that someone would perceive my stories as elitist…I just didn't think that my stories had much to do with what this forum is about. So, while I’m apologizing, please allow me to apologize for those posts, too.

Sadly, I have come to realize that I actually know very little about what this forum is about. I care very little for “vintage” as it is often defined here. I lived through some of it and I don’t recall it being particularly better than the “modern era”. I love hats, but my knowledge of them is tiny when compared to many of our other members. As to the rest, that is, the cars, clothes, music, aircraft, WWII, movies and more”…well, I know no more about these things than any other average fifty-three year old guy. Certainly not enough to post about them on a forum and expose my ignorance.

So, while I’m not going to leave (unless I’m ushered out the door ), perhaps it is best that I confine myself to just lurking around in the hat threads...like I used to do. Maybe there I can ask a few questions from time to time and learn what I can about that hobby.

AF

 

[Spats McGee]

. . . .The sparkling wine might have been Prosecco. It still is an "in" drink.

I don't think so. I've had Prosecco & I like it. Perhaps the brand name was Frizzantino, but I don't think so. It was like the Prosecco, but sweeter. It might also simply been a cheaper version of Prosecco, because it came in big (2L?) bottles.

. . . . Regensburg! I am living not far from there, actually. However, it is far enough not to get Thurn und Taxis beer, here.

I think Thurn & Taxis was bought out. Maybe by Spaten? Like I said, the locals scoffed at T&T, but I really liked it. Their Hefeweizen was outstanding and it was the only time I've ever had a Roggenbier (rye beer). Good stuff!

Regensburg (Ratisbona) was an amazing city! I was always amazed at the fact that the old Roman fortress (founded in 179 AD under Marcus Aurelius, if I remember correctly) had been turned, in part, into a parking deck downtown!

. . . . I am having one, right now

Prost!:cheers1:

For American beer drinkers . . . If you are familiar with Hefeweizen & like them, I found an American one last year that was pretty darn tasty: Flying Dog's "In Heat Wheat." If memory serves (never guaranteed), it comes out of Colorado &

 

[C-dot]

I've read everything my learned friends Atticus Finch, warbird, tortswon, Ephraim Tutt, Spats McGee have intelligently written. I do realize that truth and justice will not always prevail in my chosen profession - and because this would impair my ability to represent in court, that's why I've chosen to work under a lawyer.

I began looking at criminal law not only to seek fair trials, but to see that the guilty got what was coming to them - After reading what you've had to say, my auxiliary option, working under a Crown Attorney, would be better suited to my cause. Criminal lawyers do spent a lot of time defending the guilty - I don't believe I could handle that.

Thanks again for everything everyone has said This is a great thread, not only for students like me, but for those of the field to pool resources.

 

[warbird]

Well, darn. I certainly don’t consider myself an elitist…at least not because I have a law license. If I have somehow inadvertently communicated such, I earnestly apologize. And I’m not sure I agree that elitism in our profession is the very reason why the general public has a poor perception of what an attorney is. If pressed, I expect that I could point out a few other reasons that might contribute at least as much to the problem. But that is best left for another discussion in a different venue.

Truthfully, I have been worried about this thread since it started. I have been especially worried about my decision to discuss legal “war stories” and said so in an earlier post. I never dreamed that someone would perceive my stories as elitist…I just didn't think that my stories had much to do with what this forum is about. So, while I’m apologizing, please allow me to apologize for those posts, too.

Sadly, I have come to realize that I actually know very little about what this forum is about. I care very little for “vintage” as it is often defined here. I lived through some of it and I don’t recall it being particularly better than the “modern era”. I love hats, but my knowledge of them is tiny when compared to many of our other members. As to the rest, that is, the cars, clothes, music, aircraft, WWII, movies and more”…well, I know no more about these things than any other average fifty-three year old guy. Certainly not enough to post about them on a forum and expose my ignorance.

So, while I’m not going to leave (unless I’m ushered out the door ), perhaps it is best that I confine myself to just lurking around in the hat threads...like I used to do. Maybe there I can ask a few questions from time to time and learn what I can about that hobby.

AF

Well don't allow him to run you out of here Atticus. You have been a member here going wayyy back.

This thread was all in good fun. There are many many threads and rooms here which set people apart from one another, which include one group of interests that others take no part in. It is really really simple, if you don't care about the thread or the subject, don't read the thread. Nobody was trying to say anybody should stay out.

The true elitism is in those who seek to try and point out the divisions and seek to drive wedges, divisions and some inane class warfare, war of words and categories. Absurd. It probably should have stayed in the Hat room where most of us spend our time. I knew chirping from some would start sometime and it actually started the other night with crap started by one member who loves to stir it up. Thankfully that was deleted.

Elitism is rampant on this site. There are some who look down on people who dress sloppy, they look down on people who are too modern, look down on people who buy into the modern world of materialism too much. Then there are those who are elitists because they don't like conformists, they don't like that they are considered weird or strange and despise people who just live life in the particular dull way. And then there's the vast majority of members, who take nothing overly seriously, have fun, learn from those who are educated in an area you are not, and have good conversation and debate. This place is pretty much like any other community in other words. I don't know why people feel the need to drag down a thread simply because they don't like it.

i have seen this happen regularly over my time here, those who hang out in the hat room will appear in the obs bar and get turned off quickly and head back into their seclusion. Oh well. I usually stay in one or two rooms and it looks like I will continue to do so.

 

[tortswon]

Warbird, I'm with you. No one is forced to enter or stay. If some non-lawyer, non-legal professional wants to hang out, I'm good with that and I'm sure we would make him/her feel welcome.

Personally, I come to the Lounge to get away from things for a moment during the day. I actually did not think I would want to spend time on break reading what a bunch of lawyers had to say. But the fact is, I like this thread. And I like it just the way it was, name and all (can't fault me for being retro, right?). I'm fine with it now. I like the tone and the euphemistic "feel" of the thread. I like that we have new legal blood and new paralegal blood. I like to give advice when asked and read what others have to say.

We used to have a more collegial profession. I'm old enough to remember those days. Tutt has attempted to resuscitate the collegiality and I applaud my brother at the bar for that. In fact, while it will be a little early in the day for him to raise a glass with us when he reads this, I would like to propose a toast to Tutt. Who will join me in raising a glass of Shiraz to our brother? Best, Sam

 

[Spats McGee]

....We used to have a more collegial profession. I'm old enough to remember those days. Tutt has attempted to resuscitate the collegiality and I applaud my brother at the bar for that. In fact, while it will be a little early in the day for him to raise a glass with us when he reads this, I would like to propose a toast to Tutt. Who will join me in raising a glass of Shiraz to our brother? Best, Sam

To Tutt & collegiality! :cheers1:

 

[Atticus Finch]

Thanks Warbird. Trust me, I'm not easily run. I have always held the view that I'm but a guest on this forum. I couldn't care a whit as to what one member or the other thinks of me or what I write...but I do care what the mods think. Again, I consider myself a visitor in their house.

Some time ago, in a effort to get a handle on the ever increasing volume of threads on FL, the mods began to gently limit the subject matter of their forum. Even though I remembered this when I began to post about my court experiences, I ignored it. I think it was a mistake. This---and not The Mentor To Young Attorneys---is why I've decided to to confine myself to the parts of this forum that first drew me here, namely the various hat threads.

AF

BTW...Here's To Tutt!!!!

 

[warbird]

Thanks Warbird. Trust me, I'm not easily run. I have always held the view that I'm but a guest on this forum. I couldn't care a whit as to what one member or the other thinks of me or what I write...but I do care what the mods think. Again, I consider myself a visitor in their house.

Some time ago, in a effort to get a handle on the ever increasing volume of threads on FL, the mods began to gently limit the subject matter of their forum. Even though I remembered this when I began to post about my court experiences, I ignored it. I think it was a mistake. This---and not The Mentor To Young Attorneys---is why I've decided to to confine myself to the parts of this forum that first drew me here, namely the various hat threads.

AF

BTW...Here's To Tutt!!!!

Understood. I appreciate your sentiment. This is MK's place and the mods he sees fit to manage it. I try to respect their boundaries and limit myself to areas of my interest. In areas of the lounge it seems some always want to test those bounds or cause rifts because they think they were handled unfairly so they stir it up any chance they can. This probably is out of the bounds of normal threads and i understand their point. The problem I had was with the attitude that folks in here were somehow trying to create their own segregated environ. That was not the intent. I think it is very difficult to keep the focus on a bb extremely narrow once folks have been around to know one another personally, many having met one another.

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

To Collegiality!!

I believe we have our Catch-cry! To Collegiality!

Seriously, you folks have made me all misty-eyed. I'm proud to be your colleague and, as much as one can be in this virtual world, your friend.

I've had a spat with the mods and I don't intend to prolong it. I made a call for those who can make decisions under the veil of anonymity to do so with some common respect for those affected. It's not about ownership; it's merely about community.

Now I'm done on that.

As for elitism - this seems to be a fixation of some in the US. I listened with fascination to the nonsense being thrown around in this regard during your Presidential election. But election campaigns anywhere are filled with nonsense.

I come from one of the most egalitarian nations on earth. Elitism is not something I would ever encourage. This thread was merely a place to chat about things a particular group has in common - a love of vintage things (hats, wine, cigars, fly fishing, pens, watches, lifestyle, whatever) and law.

There was never any intention to exclude anyone any more than members of the Borsalino Brotherhood would want to exclude anyone.

And yes, brother Sam, if it encourages some collegiality across the intertubes then surely that's what any community, including the FL community, is all about.

So..come one and all who share these interests. To Collegiality!!

And thank you.
ET

 

[carebear]

I've read everything my learned friends Atticus Finch, warbird, tortswon, Ephraim Tutt, Spats McGee have intelligently written. I do realize that truth and justice will not always prevail in my chosen profession - and because this would impair my ability to represent in court, that's why I've chosen to work under a lawyer.

I began looking at criminal law not only to seek fair trials, but to see that the guilty got what was coming to them - After reading what you've had to say, my auxiliary option, working under a Crown Attorney, would be better suited to my cause. Criminal lawyers do spent a lot of time defending the guilty - I don't believe I could handle that.

Thanks again for everything everyone has said This is a great thread, not only for students like me, but for those of the field to pool resources.

In the interest of expanding your reading list if nothing else, I suggest reading a book titled "Actual Innocence" about the Innocence Project here in the US.

Even with the best of intentions the system, any system, can fail and frighteningly often those that "get what's coming to them" actually didn't have it coming at all.

Police make mistakes or pursue a reasonable suspect a bit too far past the limits of the evidence, attorneys on both sides slip up or are overzealous, "scientific" evidence is admitted that shouldn't be (or isn't that should). Eyewitness testimony is given too much credibility and alibi witnesses are impeached improperly. Snitches roll on the innocent for a deal and the crush of the collective pressures on the system allow all of the above to occur without being caught.

I hate injustice, viscerally, and to that end I believe, as Blackstone so ably stated, that it is "better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer".

For myself then, when justice and freedom are on the line, and it is the individual, presumed innocent but often poor or otherwise disadvantaged, facing the awesome, often uncaring, power of the State in our adversarial system, I know where my heart compels me to stand.



Still, that doesn't mean those 10 guilty bastards should get a free pass, so go get 'em.

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

Thanks Warbird. Trust me, I'm not easily run. I have always held the view that I'm but a guest on this forum. I couldn't care a whit as to what one member or the other thinks of me or what I write...but I do care what the mods think. Again, I consider myself a visitor in their house.

Some time ago, in a effort to get a handle on the ever increasing volume of threads on FL, the mods began to gently limit the subject matter of their forum. Even though I remembered this when I began to post about my court experiences, I ignored it. I think it was a mistake. This---and not The Mentor To Young Attorneys---is why I've decided to to confine myself to the parts of this forum that first drew me here, namely the various hat threads.

AF

BTW...Here's To Tutt!!!!

Atticus! Where would any self-respecting collection of legal folk be without the inspiration of Atticus Finch!

I trust you'll stick around.

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

Well don't allow him to run you out of here Atticus. You have been a member here going wayyy back.

This thread was all in good fun. There are many many threads and rooms here which set people apart from one another, which include one group of interests that others take no part in. It is really really simple, if you don't care about the thread or the subject, don't read the thread. Nobody was trying to say anybody should stay out.

The true elitism is in those who seek to try and point out the divisions and seek to drive wedges, divisions and some inane class warfare, war of words and categories. Absurd. It probably should have stayed in the Hat room where most of us spend our time. I knew chirping from some would start sometime and it actually started the other night with crap started by one member who loves to stir it up. Thankfully that was deleted.

Elitism is rampant on this site. There are some who look down on people who dress sloppy, they look down on people who are too modern, look down on people who buy into the modern world of materialism too much. Then there are those who are elitists because they don't like conformists, they don't like that they are considered weird or strange and despise people who just live life in the particular dull way. And then there's the vast majority of members, who take nothing overly seriously, have fun, learn from those who are educated in an area you are not, and have good conversation and debate. This place is pretty much like any other community in other words. I don't know why people feel the need to drag down a thread simply because they don't like it.

i have seen this happen regularly over my time here, those who hang out in the hat room will appear in the obs bar and get turned off quickly and head back into their seclusion. Oh well. I usually stay in one or two rooms and it looks like I will continue to do so.

Warbird, you're a man of insight and courage. It's a pleasure to share a thread with you.

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

Tortswon & Spats - my brothers of the bar. What can I say - you inspire me.
It truly is a joy to share a profession with you.

But....where are the pix lads!??

And yes, Brother Torts...I'm always happy to raise a Shiraz...an Oregon Pinot...a Reisling, Sauv Blanc, Chardy, hic....zzzzzz

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

In the interest of expanding your reading list if nothing else, I suggest reading a book titled "Actual Innocence" about the Innocence Project here in the US.

Even with the best of intentions the system, any system, can fail and frighteningly often those that "get what's coming to them" actually didn't have it coming at all.

Police make mistakes or pursue a reasonable suspect a bit too far past the limits of the evidence, attorneys on both sides slip up or are overzealous, "scientific" evidence is admitted that shouldn't be (or isn't that should). Eyewitness testimony is given too much credibility and alibi witnesses are impeached improperly. Snitches roll on the innocent for a deal and the crush of the collective pressures on the system allow all of the above to occur without being caught.

I hate injustice, viscerally, and to that end I believe, as Blackstone so ably stated, that it is "better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer".

For myself then, when justice and freedom are on the line, and it is the individual, presumed innocent but often poor or otherwise disadvantaged, facing the awesome, often uncaring, power of the State in our adversarial system, I know where my heart compels me to stand.



Still, that doesn't mean those 10 guilty bastards should get a free pass, so go get 'em.

Carebear...well said. The lead case on this theme in Britain and the Dominions (and regularly quoted by Rumpole of the Bailey) was the English case of R v Woolmington which spoke of the 'Golden thread running through British justice is that a man is innocent until proven guilty!"

Hold fast the golden thread!

 

[Edward]

Still, that doesn't mean those 10 guilty bastards should get a free pass, so go get 'em.

And let's not forget that they only become 'guilty bastards' following the decision of the court - prior to that they are, in the eyes of the law, as innocent as the rest of us, and therefore dersving of as strient a defence as any of us so accused.

 

[C-dot]

lol I love that show!

 

[tortswon]

Leo McKern, great as Rumpole and also as Number 2 in The Prisoner. Two great British series. Best, Sam

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

Leo McKern, great as Rumpole and also as Number 2 in The Prisoner. Two great British series. Best, Sam

I believe it's only appropriate to point out here that Leo McKern was an Australian.

John Mortimer, the creator and author of Rumpole, was of course an English Barrister. His Rumpole books gave rise to the series and are still wonderful reading. Just before he died Mortimer released one final Rumpole tale called the Penge Bungalow Murders - filling in the backstory of a young Rumpole's most famous case (the blood spatter case so often referred to in the series but never explained). Go get it! I can't read any of them without hearing the gravely McKern voice narrating the tale to me.

 

[tortswon]

I think it is only appropriate that this thread be supplemented with the following. Best, Sam

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhU9jkTyxmU