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[Frunobulax]

That’s what I thought. Since making my original post I’ve spotted a Royal Stetson on eBay in his size that looks early 1960s to me. It has a shallow centre dent and barely any front pinch so I think I should be able to work with it.

Well, yes and no. One caveat I should mention is a telescope, and it's little brother, the pork pie, can require a decent amount of crown height to achieve the look you want. If you don't mind a shallow pork pie, that's fine. Personally, I'd prefer some crown to work with.

 

[jlee562]

Well, yes and no. One caveat I should mention is a telescope, and it's little brother, the pork pie, can require a decent amount of crown height to achieve the look you want. If you don't mind a shallow pork pie, that's fine. Personally, I'd prefer some crown to work with.

Agreed.

Here's my Penman Pork Pie I posted the other day:


open crown height is 5 1/2" creased height is about 3 3/4 from brim to the creased part of the crown. Looks fine for a pork pie, but yes, it's somewhat shallower than a regular fedora. Some of those western telescopes used a decent amount of crown.

Protip: get yourself a hat block one size smaller than the hat you're creasing, see:
https://www.instagram.com/p/0YAUEKwS5t/

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Agreed.

Here's my Penman Pork Pie I posted the other day:


open crown height is 5 1/2" creased height is about 3 3/4 from brim to the creased part of the crown. Looks fine for a pork pie, but yes, it's somewhat shallower than a regular fedora. Some of those western telescopes used a decent amount of crown.

Protip: get yourself a hat block one size smaller than the hat you're creasing, see:
https://www.instagram.com/p/0YAUEKwS5t/

That video is incredible! Thanks for sharing.


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[deadlyhandsome]

jlee has a great point with going custom. I own a few Akubras but I also recently received my first Hufvud custom. There is really no comparison and I wonder if there is much of a price increase when you include shipping? That said, if it’s raining I’m still reaching for an Akubra because they are rugged and easily replaceable. I bet my Hufvud would handle the rain with aplomb, but I tend to baby the hats I really like and it definitely falls into that category. My solution: buy an custom and an Akubra. It’s easy to spend other people’s money. Good luck.


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[drmaxtejeda]

Agreed.

Here's my Penman Pork Pie I posted the other day:


open crown height is 5 1/2" creased height is about 3 3/4 from brim to the creased part of the crown. Looks fine for a pork pie, but yes, it's somewhat shallower than a regular fedora. Some of those western telescopes used a decent amount of crown.

Protip: get yourself a hat block one size smaller than the hat you're creasing, see:
https://www.instagram.com/p/0YAUEKwS5t/

Thank you!

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[Zombie_61]

...So, Squatter is even higher, and the decorated brim edge looks really beautiful. However, as I know so little about felts, what concerns me is that if Squatter doesn't keep center crease so well.

If you get a Squatter with an open crown, it should hold whatever shape you give it. I have six Akubras (three Fed IVs, and three Campdrafts) that arrived with open crowns, and creasing them was surprisingly easy even for a "newbie" like me. If a hat has been previously creased it takes a little more work to eliminate any signs of that crease (commonly referred to as "ghost creases" here on The Lounge), and it's more difficult to do that on a hat that came with a "factory crease" (someone with more knowledge and experience can probably explain why), but I've creased and re-creased my Akubras and they've all held their new shapes extremely well. Steam and/or water (I use distilled water) will definitely help.

That being said, it also depends on the shape of your head and how you wear your hats. I wear my hats pushed back on my head a little with the front of the sweatbands at the top of my forehead because that's how they're most comfortable. The end result is that my hats angle downward front-to-back when they're on my head. As such, my head fills the crown, and every time I've tried a Center Dent crease my head pushed it up and out until the hats were almost open crown again, even on hats with relatively tall crowns like the Fed IVs and Campdrafts. So my personal experience with Center Dent creases hasn't been favorable, but everyone else seems to wear them with no problems.

 

[John the Swede]

Anyone ever buy a black hat new only to come to you lookin a little dirty? Guess thats why I really don't like black hats - they're not even clean when theyre new!

 

[Juhani]

Thanks everybody for the comments you’ve made. I checked the young Danish and Swedish hatters, and they looked impressive, especially Hufvud (the name is old Swedish, meaning “head”).

As for the hat, however, my choice will be the classic Fed IV deluxe, partly because I want to get a Heritage Grade, which is not available with Squatter, and second, as much as I find Campdraft attractive, I’m not yet ready to customize hatbands myself.

But there’s a problem. I realized that whole my life I’ve measured my head wrongly, as I’ve held the tape measure too tight. It hurts me to admit that even my newest panama hat (58) is slightly too small…

Since over time felts tend to shrink, I find it very difficult to decide the right size. If I repeat my old mistake and squeeze the tape too tight, it’s 58cm. If held the tape a bit more loosely, the comfortable measure is 58.5–58.7 cm. Hence, 59cm is certainly the minimum, if the average shrinkage is about 0.5cm. However, if the shrinkage will be more than 0.5cm, perhaps the size should be 60cm. Then, however, I’m afraid the hat might be too big. Perhaps those of you who own number of felts know what to do.

Best,
Juhani

 

[RJR]

Thanks everybody for the comments you’ve made. I checked the young Danish and Swedish hatters, and they looked impressive, especially Hufvud (the name is old Swedish, meaning “head”).

As for the hat, however, my choice will be the classic Fed IV deluxe, partly because I want to get a Heritage Grade, which is not available with Squatter, and second, as much as I find Campdraft attractive, I’m not yet ready to customize hatbands myself.

But there’s a problem. I realized that whole my life I’ve measured my head wrongly, as I’ve held the tape measure too tight. It hurts me to admit that even my newest panama hat (58) is slightly too small…

Since over time felts tend to shrink, I find it very difficult to decide the right size. If I repeat my old mistake and squeeze the tape too tight, it’s 58cm. If held the tape a bit more loosely, the comfortable measure is 58.5–58.7 cm. Hence, 59cm is certainly the minimum, if the average shrinkage is about 0.5cm. However, if the shrinkage will be more than 0.5cm, perhaps the size should be 60cm. Then, however, I’m afraid the hat might be too big. Perhaps those of you who own number of felts know what to do.

Best,
Juhani

Order the 59 cm and get a hat stretcher.Store the hat with the stretcher in place once it shrinks to fit.

 

[scottyrocks]

Thanks everybody for the comments you’ve made. I checked the young Danish and Swedish hatters, and they looked impressive, especially Hufvud (the name is old Swedish, meaning “head”).

As for the hat, however, my choice will be the classic Fed IV deluxe, partly because I want to get a Heritage Grade, which is not available with Squatter, and second, as much as I find Campdraft attractive, I’m not yet ready to customize hatbands myself.

But there’s a problem. I realized that whole my life I’ve measured my head wrongly, as I’ve held the tape measure too tight. It hurts me to admit that even my newest panama hat (58) is slightly too small…

Since over time felts tend to shrink, I find it very difficult to decide the right size. If I repeat my old mistake and squeeze the tape too tight, it’s 58cm. If held the tape a bit more loosely, the comfortable measure is 58.5–58.7 cm. Hence, 59cm is certainly the minimum, if the average shrinkage is about 0.5cm. However, if the shrinkage will be more than 0.5cm, perhaps the size should be 60cm. Then, however, I’m afraid the hat might be too big. Perhaps those of you who own number of felts know what to do.

Best,
Juhani

I'm 58.2, and have three Fed IVs in 59 that all fit me perfectly now.

I cannot imagine you, at between 58 and 58.5 or 7, buying a 60. I think it'll swim on you and never get down to where it fits.

 

[scottyrocks]

Anyone ever buy a black hat new only to come to you lookin a little dirty? Guess thats why I really don't like black hats - they're not even clean when theyre new!

I suppose they are like black cars - dirty the moment after you clean them.

 

[Mustang Mike's Hats]

Not really a question, but an observation:

I just returned from a couple days camping with my family. I wore my hat from when I first crawled out of my sleeping bag until it was dark. The entire day. I then realized that there are lots of days when my hat is worn from my house to my car, from my car to my office, maybe out to lunch, and then home again. There’s lots of days my hat of the day isn’t on my head for more than a combined 20 minutes. Anyone else have the same experience?


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Yep! Since I work in the "corporate world" and play in the Cowboy (a.k.a. Horse working), or Cowboy Action Shooting (SASS) world, the amount of time I wear a hat varies greatly. During the week I MAY wear my hat in the car to the office, NEVER from car to office, and MAYBE from work to home. Add in a side trip or two after work with a hat on my gourd. On the weekends, different story. Just finshed a Cowboy shooting event in San Luis Obispo and I don't think I went 30 minutes without a hat on for four straight days. (talk about "hat hair"!!) So, I guess I can relate.

 

[Zombie_61]

...As for the hat, however, my choice will be the classic Fed IV deluxe...But there’s a problem. I realized that whole my life I’ve measured my head wrongly, as I’ve held the tape measure too tight. It hurts me to admit that even my newest panama hat (58) is slightly too small...

Measuring our heads accurately can be more difficult than it sounds, and everyone seems to have a slightly different technique. My technique is to treat the Tailor's tape as if it were the sweatband on a hat--I wrap it around my head where the hat's sweatband would be when I'm wearing it, then adjust it to how loose or tight I want the hat to fit. Once I've achieved both of those goals, that's my measurement.

Of course, that doesn't take the hat's ovality into consideration, and people whose heads are a "long oval", "extra long oval" or a "wide oval" often need to adjust their measurement to account for that. My head is almost a spot on regular oval so I've never needed to do that; someone with more experience can surely advise you in that regard.

...Since over time felts tend to shrink, I find it very difficult to decide the right size...

Any fur felt hat can shrink over time if it isn't properly cared for, but I wouldn't say they tend to shrink. Cheap wool felts, yes, but good fur felts are usually more stable.

Akubra hats are no different, but most of the time when we're discussing Akubras and shrinkage we're referring to the sweatbands, not the felt. Devotees of Akubra hats are familiar with their hats' "shrink to fit" quality but, for whatever reason, none of the vendors who sell Akubra hats mention this on their websites. Akubra has been making hats for more than 100 years and they know approximately how much the leather they use for their sweatbands will shrink, so they size their hats accordingly, i.e. a little oversized. As we wear the hats the sodium and moisture in our perspiration slightly dehydrates the leathers Akubra uses, which is what causes them to shrink somewhat. What this means to the buyer is that their new hat should be at least a little loose when they receive it but, assuming they've ordered the correct size, should shrink down to a comfortable fit after they've worn it (and more specifically sweated in it) for a while.

Keep in mind, they use different leathers for the sweatbands on their regular/Imperial Grade hats and their deluxe/Heritage Grade hats, and the leather on the deluxe/Heritage hats shrinks less. All of my regular/Imperial Akubras were rather oversized when I received them, maybe as much as one-half to a full size. But after wearing them daily for a few days to a week, they all shrunk down to a nice comfortable fit and conformed to the shape of my head. By comparison my deluxe/Heritage hat was only slightly oversized when I received it, but it also shrunk down to a nice comfortable fit after wearing it for a few days or so. Also, after this initial "shrink to fit" period they might shrink slightly more over time, but I've had my oldest Akubra (a Fed IV) for ten years and it hasn't shrunk more during that time.

...If I repeat my old mistake and squeeze the tape too tight, it’s 58cm. If held the tape a bit more loosely, the comfortable measure is 58.5–58.7 cm. Hence, 59cm is certainly the minimum, if the average shrinkage is about 0.5cm. However, if the shrinkage will be more than 0.5cm, perhaps the size should be 60cm. Then, however, I’m afraid the hat might be too big. Perhaps those of you who own number of felts know what to do...

Based on my experience with Akubra hats, my advice has always been the same. If your head measurement is so close to an exact size that it makes no difference, order that size. But if you're between sizes, order the larger size. Since your stated measurement is between sizes, if I were you I would order a 59. A hat that's a little large can be easily modified to a better fit by placing material behind the sweatband, but a hat that's too small will rarely fit without some major reconstruction.

If you're still uncertain, contact whichever vendor you're going to buy the hat from in advance, provide them with your head measurement(s), and request their advice. Since you seem set on ordering a Fed IV, I can say the folks at Hats Direct have always given me good service.

That being said...

Order the 59 cm and get a hat stretcher.Store the hat with the stretcher in place once it shrinks to fit.

I agree that a hat stretcher, a.k.a. a Hat Jack, is a good item for any hat wearer to have. I have three Fed IVs and three Campdrafts, all size 60. After the expected "shrink to fit" period the Campdrafts were all a little too snug for my liking, so I used a Hat Jack to stretch them out just a little. After a couple of hours each they were more comfortable, and so far I haven't needed to stretch them again.

 

[Just A Hat Rack]

Keep in mind, they use different leathers for the sweatbands on their regular/Imperial Grade hats and their deluxe/Heritage Grade hats, and the leather on the deluxe/Heritage hats shrinks less. All of my regular/Imperial Akubras were rather oversized when I received them, maybe as much as one-half to a full size. But after wearing them daily for a few days to a week, they all shrunk down to a nice comfortable fit and conformed to the shape of my head. By comparison my deluxe/Heritage hat was only slightly oversized when I received it, but it also shrunk down to a nice comfortable fit after wearing it for a few days or so. Also, after this initial "shrink to fit" period they might shrink slightly more over time, but I've had my oldest Akubra (a Fed IV) for ten years and it hasn't shrunk more during that time.

So if I'm understanding correctly and taking things at face value, if I were two order a heritage grade and an imperial grade, both the same size, the sweat size on the imperial would be larger than the sweat on the heritage until they "shrink to fit?"

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[jlee562]

Notwithstanding minor production variances, the two sweatbands would theoretically be cut to the same length. However, the heritage grade hats also use a higher grade of leather which hatsdirect markets as "less prone to drying and shrinkage."

 

[Zombie_61]

So if I'm understanding correctly and taking things at face value, if I were two order a heritage grade and an imperial grade, both the same size, the sweat size on the imperial would be larger than the sweat on the heritage until they "shrink to fit?"

Based strictly on my personal experience with Akubra hats, I'd have to say yes. All five of my regular/Imperial Akubras were so large when I received them that I could pull them down until my head filled their open crowns. But my deluxe/Heritage Akubra was only a little large when I received it; barely enough for me to pull it over the tops of my ears, and quite a bit of empty space remaining between my head and the crown. There probably wasn't a huge difference as far as the actual measurement, maybe less than a centimeter, but it was noticeable. And after they went through that initial "shrink to fit" period, and to this day, they all fit the same. Well, that's not entirely true; my three Campdrafts, all regular/Imperial felt, needed to be stretched just a little to be comfortable to me, but now all six hats fit the same.

BUT...sometimes I think it was dumb luck that it turned out that way because I've read posts here on The Lounge from members who received Akubras that were supposed to be the same size, and were labeled as such, but were either too small or too large even after they had shrunk as expected. So take my experience for what it's worth, knowing others weren't so fortunate.

 

[jlee562]

A part of me wonders just how much inherent inconsistency there is in factory hat production and what the "margins of error" are. We are after all, talking about finished goods from natural fibers and leathers. Heck, it might even be the case that our observations of inconsistency reflect how long a hat has been sitting in a stock room.

Akubra is certainly not alone in this. My Panama OR is tighter than my felt Stetsons, certainly. That's just one of the quirks of hat wearing.

 

[Frunobulax]

Interestingly enough, my Heritage grade, unlike others, was the most oversized upon receiving. It's still the most roomy, but it certainly fits. The "Fedora," my first Akubra, fit out of the box and hasn't changed.




Sent directly from my mind to yours.

 

[scottyrocks]

My Tawny Fawn Fed IV is snugger than my other two. All are Imperial grade, all the same initial size.

 

[Ken David]

I have been wanting a standard OR or clone in silverbelly to add to the rotation. I Got frustrated in finding a decent one at a decent price so for father's day I ordered a silver belly akubra campdraft (since I was pleased with my BGCD I ordered a year earlier). Without going into detail I am very disappointed in this hat, no comparison to the BGCD. Anway I recently came across this resistol OR clone a 4x "saddler" for a decent price. Was wondering if anybody can confirm the age 1970s or 1980s? Just got it today and need to try and spot clean it before it gets any head time. Thanks.

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