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[dutchroo]

Thanks, Alan. I suspected about that vintage, judging by looking at some of the Knox hats posted on this site. Specifically, the lack of the Knox crest on the band and the Knox Custom .

I'm curious: When did Knox start putting their name on the band in place of the crest? Also, when did they start using Knox Custom in the crest (versus Knox Fifteen or Knox Twenty)?

Thanks for indulging my ignorance. Let me know when it starts to get annoying.

 

[ManofKent]

Dutchroo - I'll go with Alan's estimate. Black sweats weren't common until the late 50's and the brim suggests very late 50's through to mid 70's. If there's a label under the sweat it's worth posting a photo of that. Brad has an almost encyclopedic knowledge of the Hatco brands and might be able to narrow it down from that.

 

[dutchroo]

Thanks, Richard! I'm gleaning from your comment that Knox belonged to a company named HatCo. What other brands does that include?

Here's some pictures of the labels on the inside of the sweatband on the Comet 4:

The size tag fell off when I turned the sweatband out

There's an interesting stamp on the leather of the inside of the sweatband. I don't know if it's germane to the topic, but I'll share anyway:

Any further thoughts in light of these details?

Thanks everyone!

Andrew

 

[alanfgag]

I'm not very familiar with Knox hats from this era - that style of manufacturing tag came into use in the 1950s and may have continued beyond the 1960s. There is quite a bit written on the lounge about Hat Corporation of America and their brands. Knox would have marketed many models during the era, with Fifteen and Twenty referring back to the retail price. Custom would be just one of these models - custom edge is their trade name for the felted brim edge treatment. The translucent covering (plastic? or paper?) over the crown part of the liner is reminiscent of 1950s Knox hats I have owned, though the other elements including the narrow brim call more to the 1960s. The stamp on the reverse of the sweatband has been discussed recently, with thoughts that it is trade stamp (union?) for the workers that supplied the sweatband leather.

 

[Brad Bowers]

Dutchroo, that's an interesting Knox you've got there. Everyone's right about the '50s and '60s. I would have pegged it for the 1960s because that's about the time that Hat Corporation of America dropped the block depth number from their hat labels, and yours is missing the number. It could still be 1960s, but a bit of research into the name shows it could as early as 1958. It's named after the De Havilland Comet 4, a jetliner. This was a time when hats named after jets was common, like the "707" named after the Boeing aircraft. BOAC appears to be the primary mainstream airline flying the Comet 4s, and they were the first to offer regular jet-powered transatlantic service in October 1958. Boeing shifted the Comet 4s off of transatlantic routes in 1959, however, as the planes were losing favor to the 707.

I couldn't find any newspaper or magazine advertisements mentioning the Knox Comet 4, but because the aircraft's period of publicity is pretty much limited to 1958 and 1959, it's a good bet that your hat dates to that time. It's possible that Knox might have continued the model more than a year, but doubtful. If the plane wasn't in the public's imagination, the hat wouldn't be either. Hat Corporation of America used the 707 for a hat model long into the 1960s. Considering yours is the first Comet 4 to turn up, I'd say it's a rare model to own.

As for the Knox name on the sweatband instead of the crest, it's probably due to making room for the Comet 4 model name, featuring it more prominently.

Brad

 

[dutchroo]

Wow! It sounds like you're the go-to guy for hat info, Brad. Thanks so much!

 

[RBH]

I couldn't find any newspaper or magazine advertisements mentioning the Knox Comet 4, but because the aircraft's period of publicity is pretty much limited to 1958 and 1959, it's a good bet that your hat dates to that time.
Brad

Brad, I found only this reference in the March 25th 1961 edition of The New Yorker.

as quoted....

'' KNOX creates : Comet 4 En route to wherever good looks count —
the Knox Comet 4 inspired by B-O-A-C, featuring the luxurious new "doe" finish.
Amazingly smooth, incredibly rich — it's the softest thing that's ever happened to hats.''

I am not a subscriber so I could not get the actual copy.

 

[RBH]

I believe Bolthead had [has] a Comet.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/show...-Wearing-Today&p=652345&viewfull=1#post652345

 

[dutchroo]

You guys are simply amazing. Thanks for all your help!

Andrew

 

[Brad Bowers]

Brad, I found only this reference in the March 25th 1961 edition of The New Yorker.

as quoted....

'' KNOX creates : Comet 4 En route to wherever good looks count —
the Knox Comet 4 inspired by B-O-A-C, featuring the luxurious new "doe" finish.
Amazingly smooth, incredibly rich — it's the softest thing that's ever happened to hats.''

I am not a subscriber so I could not get the actual copy.

Aha, but I have the complete New Yorker on DVD! The bad part is the DVDs are only keyword searchable for articles, not advertisements. The web versions are better in that sense.

Here you go, and thanks for finding it, RBH! I didn't run across it in my search.

1961 fits better much better with the factory label dating information. I liked my 1958-1959 theory because it made sense that Knox would try to keep current, but Knox appears to have been behind the times. The ad you found for the Comet 4 was on page 22, and ironically, on page 21 there is a BOAC ad touting their 707 jets.

EDIT: I thought I loaded a larger-sized image, but apparently not. Also, the ad states that the Comet 4 is $16.50, but Dutchroo's hat has a $17.95 price, so it may be even later than 1961, which mean Knox appears to have kept the name for a while, or else Knox Custom is possibly a higher-priced, higher-quality version of the same hat.



Brad

 

[RBH]

Good going Brad!

 

[viclip]

...I do have a white fedora (a more modern age one, not "that" vintage), and it isn't that easy to find what to wear with it, either. In dress up clothes, it seems a bit too flashy, for one.

Note Matt Deckard's mention of the versatility of a white hat albeit with a wide black ribbon, towards the bottom of his blog page:

http://deckardsguide.blogspot.com/2012/01/felt-hat-care.html

 

[bowlerman]

Imageshack is now a paysite, so I'm trying out photobucket. Does anyone know how to post the pics here without creating a link to my entire library?

 

[buler]

Imageshack is now a paysite, so I'm trying out photobucket. Does anyone know how to post the pics here without creating a link to my entire library?

I'd really recommend someplace other than photobucket. That was my go to site. Then it started going downhill. Now, I consider it worthless to use.

B

 

[gtdean48]

Imageshack is now a paysite, so I'm trying out photobucket. Does anyone know how to post the pics here without creating a link to my entire library?

Yes. I use the IMG link like this... I remove the URL parts too...

 

[bowlerman]

Thanks-- Tom, I see your image, but can't detect how it was placed.

When I click on the IMG link options it automatically copies and I can't select my own portion thereof, etc., to copy manually. Then I just Ctrl-V to paste it, like this:

ok, that's weird. it worked. But in the new hats thread, it linked.

 

[gtdean48]

Thanks-- Tom, I see your image, but can't detect how it was placed.

When I click on the IMG link options it automatically copies and I can't select my own portion thereof, etc., to copy manually. ....

Right, when I click on IMG link it highlights, then I right mouse-click to copy. When I paste into my reply box, I delete the URL portions just living the IMG link. Sometimes I leave it too....

 

[bowlerman]

Got it-- thanks! But that does seem a bit cumbersome when posting multiple photos.

Buler, what's your preferred photo host?

 

[buler]

Got it-- thanks! But that does seem a bit cumbersome when posting multiple photos.

Buler, what's your preferred photo host?

Good question. I don't really prefer any given one right now. I have a ton of pics in photobucket already. Just getting to them and retrieving a link to use on the lounge is extremely painful. I do see that flickr has a new beta version of their site. I'd give that a try.

B

 

[alanfgag]

Aha, but I have the complete New Yorker on DVD! The bad part is the DVDs are only keyword searchable for articles, not advertisements. The web versions are better in that sense.

Here you go, and thanks for finding it, RBH! I didn't run across it in my search.

1961 fits better much better with the factory label dating information. I liked my 1958-1959 theory because it made sense that Knox would try to keep current, but Knox appears to have been behind the times. The ad you found for the Comet 4 was on page 22, and ironically, on page 21 there is a BOAC ad touting their 707 jets.

EDIT: I thought I loaded a larger-sized image, but apparently not. Also, the ad states that the Comet 4 is $16.50, but Dutchroo's hat has a $17.95 price, so it may be even later than 1961, which mean Knox appears to have kept the name for a while, or else Knox Custom is possibly a higher-priced, higher-quality version of the same hat.

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Brad

This is great research, Brad and Rusty. :eusa_clap Used my online subscription to page through the magazines on their archive website (what a great resource that is - every issue going back to the first in 1925). Guessing that the back to back placement of the BOAC and Knox ads was a coop venture. Thanks for the detective work, guys.