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[Hurricane Jack]

Congratulations. I would say you are one of the few who go to such great lengths and I'm proud of you for doing so. Would love to see pics of the car sometime.

So, a couple of questions come to mind. Do those tires made in 1953 still hold air and are they roadworthy? Secondly, how many miles a year to you put on the Vette?

NCRS wrote the restoration guidelines. Today Chevrolet often consults NCRS. The only pic I have on computer is my 1963 which I had the body off the frame in my shop for 2 yrs. These pics were taken down your way at an NCRS meet at either Irving or Grapevine, TX. I forget which. That's me in 1984. I even commissioned a watercolor painting of my exact car.

More recently I'm working on a 1963 Biscayne 2dr. Two door Biscaynes are rare. This one will probably get modified a bit.

 

[humanshoes]

I do love a spirited debate. I have small collection of over 100 vintage and antique hats in my collection and none of them will ever go under the knife or be significantly altered by my hands. I bought them all to be just what they are. I also would never presume to tell others what they should do with theirs. Technically speaking, even gentle cleaning and re-bashing of a vintage hat will have altered it's character and perhaps even it's historical value. As a younger man I rallied for the preservation of historic buildings. I was passionate to the point of risking my personal freedom and there were others who were just as passionate about the need for progress in the name of the public good.
While reading all these great posts and reminiscing a bit, I was reminded of this excerpt from the U.S. Department of the Interior guidelines for historic building additions and alterations. When you read this just think hats instead of buildings:

"A new exterior addition to a historic building should be considered in a rehabilitation project only after determining that requirements for the new or adaptive use cannot be successfully met by altering non-significant interior spaces. If the new use cannot be accommodated in this way, then an exterior addition may be an acceptable alternative. Rehabilitation as a treatment is defined as the act or process of making possible a compatible use for a property through repair, alterations, and additions while preserving those portions or features which convey its historical, cultural, or architectural values.”

"The topic of new additions, including rooftop additions, to historic buildings comes up frequently, especially as it relates to rehabilitation projects. It is often discussed and it is the subject of concern, consternation, considerable disagreement and confusion. Can, in certain instances, a historic building be enlarged for a new use without destroying its historic character? And, just what is significant about each particular historic building that should be preserved? Finally, what kind of new construction is appropriate to the historic building?"

It would seem that the preservation or alteration of anything anyone considers to be of historical value will always be "the subject of concern, consternation, considerable disagreement and confusion."

 

[Hurricane Jack]

As a younger man I rallied for the preservation of historic buildings. I was passionate to the point of risking my personal freedom

My Waterloo is/was Civil War homes of importance but under private ownership today & collecting money from the National Historic Registry, but not open to the public.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

The Lounge started to morph and evolve the day it started. I find it strange that critics pick and chose what to find not in keeping with the original intent of the Lounge. Are modern boots part of the Golden Era?” How about clean jokes, modern beverages, a new custom cowboy hat or what TV show are you watching? Even if some of these threads go far back, they weren’t part of the “original” intent of The Fedora Lounge. Things change. Things grow. If there are threads or posts that you don’t like you are free to disregard them. It’s always a losing battle to try to freeze things and stop change. I don’t think that the reactionary mindset serves us well. Surely this is a “big tent” forum where opposing views are tolerated. There’s no denying that The Lounge has changed. It used to be more scholarly and we’ve lost members who haven’t liked the changes. I miss those members and their contributions, but such is life. Change is a universal constant.

As to the topic of altering vintage hats, I generally oppose it. I don’t, however, suppose I have the right to lecture, reprove, or criticize what another does when their actions don’t impact me. I’ll give an opinion and make an argument, but who am I to tell another what they should or should not do with their own property?


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[deadlyhandsome]

And..... If I buy a hat labeled 7 1/4 but has stretched over time to a 7 1/2 is it wrong to get it back to a 7 1/4? Or is it wrong to leave as a 7 1/2 which originally was not?

If a ribbon is faded, ripped, or damaged is it wrong to replace it with the original color non-faded vintage ribbon? That would be original but not show the age! Is it wrong to change the color or width even if they were options when the hat was new?

What about a 1930s hat that had the ribbon replaced in the 40s or 50s. Do you try to get the original ribbon or leave it compromised by the newer 40s/50s ribbon?

Examples can go on and on. I'm all for preservation and restoration. But the idea that a hat bought new in the 1900-1950s range would never be altered by the owners is not believable. And I realize that this could be a very valid reason to leave unaltered examples of vintage hats as is. I fully support keeping them as mint as possible if that's your thing. I know some who will wear hats with sweatbands that are all but completely rotten. I will replace a bad sweatband in a heartbeat.

I appreciate those who try to maintain "original" as much as possible. If I change a ribbon I keep the original so it can be switched back for that very reason. I keep old sweatbands, tags, and labels for provenance.

I've seen hats on this forum altered in ways that make me cringe. And I'm sure I've caused others to feel the same with stuff I've done. I assure you that was not my intent. I respect each and every person on the lounge and seek advise and wisdom from many.

Well said, Bill.


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[Steinbockhase]

And..... If I buy a hat labeled 7 1/4 but has stretched over time to a 7 1/2 is it wrong to get it back to a 7 1/4? Or is it wrong to leave as a 7 1/2 which originally was not?

If a ribbon is faded, ripped, or damaged is it wrong to replace it with the original color non-faded vintage ribbon? That would be original but not show the age! Is it wrong to change the color or width even if they were options when the hat was new?

What about a 1930s hat that had the ribbon replaced in the 40s or 50s. Do you try to get the original ribbon or leave it compromised by the newer 40s/50s ribbon?

Examples can go on and on. I'm all for preservation and restoration. But the idea that a hat bought new in the 1900-1950s range would never be altered by the owners is not believable. And I realize that this could be a very valid reason to leave unaltered examples of vintage hats as is. I fully support keeping them as mint as possible if that's your thing. I know some who will wear hats with sweatbands that are all but completely rotten. I will replace a bad sweatband in a heartbeat.

I appreciate those who try to maintain "original" as much as possible. If I change a ribbon I keep the original so it can be switched back for that very reason. I keep old sweatbands, tags, and labels for provenance.

I've seen hats on this forum altered in ways that make me cringe. And I'm sure I've caused others to feel the same with stuff I've done. I assure you that was not my intent. I respect each and every person on the lounge and seek advise and wisdom from many.

Amen!

 

[Rmccamey]

She's a beauty. Thanks for sharing.

NCRS wrote the restoration guidelines. Today Chevrolet often consults NCRS. The only pic I have on computer is my 1963 which I had the body off the frame in my shop for 2 yrs. These pics were taken down your way at an NCRS meet at either Irving or Grapevine, TX. I forget which. That's me in 1984. I even commissioned a watercolor painting of my exact car.

View attachment 175415

View attachment 175416

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More recently I'm working on a 1963 Biscayne 2dr. Two door Biscaynes are rare. This one will probably get modified a bit.

View attachment 175419

View attachment 175418

 

[Hat and Rehat]

Re: vintage mods

It's a discussion that's been had. Careful observers might pick up that certain posters don't appear in conversion threads, and likewise that the conversions mostly appear in the conversions thread (aside from "What hat are you wearing today"). A deeper read of the lounge and one might pick up on the number of contributors to the lounge's collective knowledge that are no longer present.

I've definitely grown a greater appreciation for the sentiment that it's only original once. Certainly some hats should be rescued with a replacement sweat, liner, or rebuilding. It's not as if they were not refurbished historically. The Scientific Hat Finishing book is basically a pamphlet on how to set up your own hat refurbishment shop.

But if it doesn't need to be rebuilt, it's only original once.

(Though to be sure, there's a world of difference between a modern black Borso and a Stetson 100. One of these things not like the other)

I breezed through what you said yesterday, being more focused on interaction that was already ongoing.
I've spent very little time in threads dedicated to conversions. Maybe none. I also haven't given FL as deep a read as I would like because there are only so many hours in a day. I wasn't a long time lurker, as others have described themselves. I found hat searches, mainly about technical issues, seemed to bring me here repeatedly, so registered.
I didn't really understand that I was opening an ongoing debate which included a level of animus.
On top of that, I seem to have accidentally unsubscribed to this thread, so missed new posts until I was quoted.
Can you steer me to the past discussions? There's no sense kicking a hornet's nest if I don't have to.

 

[humanshoes]

My Waterloo is/was Civil War homes of importance but under private ownership today & collecting money from the National Historic Registry, but not open to the public.

Careful not to awaken my radical tendencies there Jack. Taxpayer funding should always equal taxpayer access.

 

[Hat and Rehat]

I see I have some catching up to do. Perhaps this point has already been raised, but isn't a modified vintage hat better than one neglected until it ends up in a landfill?
I need to go work on houses now.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I do love a spirited debate. I have small collection of over 100 vintage and antique hats in my collection and none of them will ever go under the knife or be significantly altered by my hands. I bought them all to be just what they are. I also would never presume to tell others what they should do with theirs. Technically speaking, even gentle cleaning and re-bashing of a vintage hat will have altered it's character and perhaps even it's historical value. As a younger man I rallied for the preservation of historic buildings. I was passionate to the point of risking my personal freedom and there were others who were just as passionate about the need for progress in the name of the public good.
While reading all these great posts and reminiscing a bit, I was reminded of this excerpt from the U.S. Department of the Interior guidelines for historic building additions and alterations. When you read this just think hats instead of buildings:

"A new exterior addition to a historic building should be considered in a rehabilitation project only after determining that requirements for the new or adaptive use cannot be successfully met by altering non-significant interior spaces. If the new use cannot be accommodated in this way, then an exterior addition may be an acceptable alternative. Rehabilitation as a treatment is defined as the act or process of making possible a compatible use for a property through repair, alterations, and additions while preserving those portions or features which convey its historical, cultural, or architectural values.”

"The topic of new additions, including rooftop additions, to historic buildings comes up frequently, especially as it relates to rehabilitation projects. It is often discussed and it is the subject of concern, consternation, considerable disagreement and confusion. Can, in certain instances, a historic building be enlarged for a new use without destroying its historic character? And, just what is significant about each particular historic building that should be preserved? Finally, what kind of new construction is appropriate to the historic building?"

It would seem that the preservation or alteration of anything anyone considers to be of historical value will always be "the subject of concern, consternation, considerable disagreement and confusion."

It’s important to be passionate about things you believe to be important. There should always be a place for spirited debate and an exchange of ideas. Unfortunately, the more passionate one is the harder it can be to maintain civility when dealing with those of another viewpoint. When you are so sure that your way of thinking is right it’s hard to listen and be respectful of those who feel otherwise. Vive la différence is easy to say, but harder to live by.






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[humanshoes]

It’s important to be passionate about things you believe to be important. There should always be a place for spirited debate and an exchange of ideas. Unfortunately, the more passionate one is the harder it can be to maintain civility when dealing with those of another viewpoint. When you are so sure that your way of thinking is right it’s hard to listen and be respectful of those who feel otherwise. Vive la différence is easy to say, but harder to live by.






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I couldn't agree with you more Brent. For me, one of the secrets to a stress free life has been to get too damn old and too damn tired to summon enough energy to care too much about what other people are doing.

 

[Hat and Rehat]

While in the shower, it occurred to me that this is strikingly similar to another experience I've had. Am I the only one who has started attending a church, made new aquaintences that became friends, felt increasingly at home, when an issue arose that suddenly revealed deep divides you never even suspected?

 

[Hat and Rehat]

I couldn't agree with you more Brent. For me, one of the secrets to a stress free life has been to get too damn old and too damn tired to summon enough energy to care too much about what other people are doing.

Works for me.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

While in the shower, it occurred to me that this is strikingly similar to another experience I've had. Am I the only one who has started attending a church, made new aquaintences that became friends, felt increasingly at home, when an issue arose that suddenly revealed deep divides you never even suspected?

Probably the reason why most of us learn to avoid topics like politics etc. Personally, I like the free-thinking disruptive influences; even if I don’t agree with them I appreciate the differences. I for one don’t want to live in a homogeneous society, and that includes one where everyone agrees with me.


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[Lean'n'mean]

I'm not sure where I stand on modifying vintage hats but I'm all for modifying modern heads.

 

[AbbaDatDeHat]

I couldn't agree with you more Brent. For me, one of the secrets to a stress free life has been to get too damn old and too damn tired to summon enough energy to care too much about what other people are doing.

Lol lol lol
If i may:
Let me turn that around. Took me a looong time to figure out other people don’t really care what i do!!
Then i realized what i think, my opinion,
“Don’t feed the Bulldog” anyway!!
Wish i’d have learned that long ago when i was right about everything and everybody wanted to know. I might still have hair! Lol
B

 

[AbbaDatDeHat]

I'm not sure where I stand on modifying vintage hats but I'm all for modifying modern heads.

Perfect!!

 

[Bill Hughes]

NCRS wrote the restoration guidelines. Today Chevrolet often consults NCRS. The only pic I have on computer is my 1963 which I had the body off the frame in my shop for 2 yrs. These pics were taken down your way at an NCRS meet at either Irving or Grapevine, TX. I forget which. That's me in 1984. I even commissioned a watercolor painting of my exact car.

View attachment 175415

View attachment 175416

View attachment 175417

More recently I'm working on a 1963 Biscayne 2dr. Two door Biscaynes are rare. This one will probably get modified a bit.

View attachment 175419

View attachment 175418

WOW! In my younger days I loved cars like that. Now the thought of even wedging myself into one hurts. LOL But it is a beautiful car. Do you still have it?

 

[The Jackal]

Probably the reason why most of us learn to avoid topics like politics etc. Personally, I like the free-thinking disruptive influences; even if I don’t agree with them I appreciate the differences. I for one don’t want to live in a homogeneous society, and that includes one where everyone agrees with me.


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I'm a big believer in individuality. Everything from the hat you wear to the gun you own speaks directly to who you are as a person. I've not met 2 people that are exactly alike, and thus their things shouldn't be exactly the same.

That's why it boggles my mind when people get heated over rules that try to force people to be exactly the same.