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Article: Why do People Hate Hipsters

Rick Blaine

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"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly."
— Bertrand Russell

A German philosopher named Karl Marx argued that a capitalist economy leads to fetishization, and devalues the worth of goods and services, placing the focus instead on their market price.

I know that I personally have made a 'fetish of fedoras' (...sounds kinda catchy, eh? Good name for a band ;)) Though it has little to nothing to do w/ market price... I don't know quite why I do it, to be honest.

"It is true of dress in even a higher degree than of most other items of consumption, that people will undergo a very considerable degree of privation in the comforts or the necessaries of life in order to afford what is considered a decent amount of wasteful consumption..."

- Thorstein Veblen

Do I have anything more in common w/ a fella that wears fedoras than I do w/ one who also happens to also shoot only with Nikons, as I do? [huh] I dunno.

I try to dress in a manner akin to, though not slavishly reproducing, the wardrobe of an average working Joe c. 1930 - 1941, my Fathers' formative years. I try to wear items that would not have been out of place in that period. Does it make me odd? Perhaps. To what degree am I willing to go? Well, I'll never pay $400 for selvage Levis from Nippon or J (s)Crew, but I will wear $15 - $20 dollar Wranglers or more for Carhartts if I am flush. It is what THEY would have done, no?. More Tom Joad than Fred Astaire, more Woody Guthrie than William Powell. I guess I crave a sense of continuity & connection to what has come before that brings with it an authenticity.

If nothing else, I think I DO recognize my (not necessarily an attractive quality) reactionary, how shall I say it... spirit, thing, je ne se qua against the 21st Century and what it has thus far brought us. As someone here has in his or her sig here. - "I want my century back". Though I doubt this is the healthiest way to handle c-c-c-changes, ya' know?

This is something that has been in the back of my mind for a while (definition through consumption) & this discussion brought it to the fore. Any thoughts?



:eek:fftopic: (Though not really, more parenthetically.)

Some etymologists believe that the term hip was in reference to those who used opium recreationally in the 19th century. Opium smokers commonly consumed the drug lying on their sides (i.e. their hips). Because opium smoking was a practice of socially-influential trend-setting individuals, the cachet it enjoyed led to the circulation of the term hip by way of a kind of synecdoche, e.g.- "he's OK. he's on the hip" or in the know. In "Bet the Devil Your Head," Edgar Allen Poe has one character ask another, "are you hipped?"


...boy, can I gas on & on... :eek:

 

Mr Badger

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I wonder if you looked if you could find a bunch of anti-geezer blogs, complaining about how geezers do things like buy up all the beach front property, use up too much health care money, have skinny legs and knobby knees yet wear shorts when playing golf, and buy up all the good guitars.

IMNSHO there's no reason to wear short trousers unless you are engaged in a legitimate sporting activity, retired or in grade school! :D

Unfortunately, most people who can afford to buy good guitars are more 'widdly widdly, weeee!' or 'don't touch it, don't even look at it' than actually into good music... EMERGENCY EDIT: I'm amending that last comment to cover most guitarists.

For a great book on geezerism, check out Richard Meltzer's simply hilarious Aging Rhythm.

I live in the most hipster part of London, probably of the entire UK, Hackney in East London.

I lived in Shoreditch and Bethnal Green in the early 1990s, before having to move eastwards to Hackney, to escape the arty gentrification of a wonderful place. I do miss the Lower Clapton Road but when I lived there, around 1994-1998, there was a helluva lot of street violence – has it got any better? After that, I moved to Brixton, which was going through gentrification itself, and quite happily saw the local hipsters getting hit on by the street hustlers!
 
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Fletch

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It certainly resonates with me -- I tend to have very little patience with people who think they're too good to work for a living.
But what about it resonates with you? Someone who is taking care of business but doing it her own way, or someone who does it only because it's part of the conventions of his class? From what I know about you, your lifestyle would not bear the scrutiny of the conformists. You're self-reliant, but you're not following anybody's script, and I imagine you'd say fiddle-dee-dee if anyone called you on it.

The importance of work, btw, is another legacy of our native 86 proof brand of capitalism. It leads, finally, to your work being the measure of your life, and anything outside of that is worth that much less, and means that much less. How would you feel if we slagged off everything you know and share with us that didn't have to do with writing or running a theater? You, of all people, ought to know what it means to be more than your job description.
 
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LizzieMaine

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Call it the Methodist/Calvinist Work Ethic, for want of a better term -- the idea that paying your own way thru hard work is itself is the virtue -- and the reward, not what it buys you. That, to me, seems to be the very opposite of the "sponge-off-the-relatives/girlfriend/buddy-who-has-a-job while daydreaming about being in a band" ethos that seems to be the stereotype of the slacker/hipster way of life.

I think the idea that the traditional work ethic is somehow tied to conspicuous two-car-garage consumerism is postwar middle-class bunk, manufactured and sold by the real-life Mad Men and bought by a generation of people who were too tired after fighting a war to know any better. Not everybody bought into it then, though -- not everybody cared about being "upwardly mobile" as long as they paid their bills on time, carried their share of the load, and kept their name out of the town report. That's the culture I was raised in, and I'm perfectly content to stay there. By today's standards I'm a nonconformist of the most dangerous, radical sort -- but I don't accept today's standards, so it doesn't matter.

As far as "I am the sum total of my work" is concerned, well, yeah, that's exactly what I am, and that's pretty much what everyone else is too, whether they like it or not. Life itself is work -- work doesn't begin and end when you punch the clock. Every breathing moment of life is work, and we're deluding ourselves if we think otherwise. And -- judging from the life my brother's led -- it's a lot harder work to be lazy and shiftless than it is to actually bear down to a job.
 
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Viola

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I don't like hipsters for a less noble reason than Lizzie; I was a working class kid and the hipsters I know made me jealous as a kid and make me irritable now.

They are too good for "your rat race" and "to buy into it all" - because their daddies did. They want to take time to backpack through Europe and pity people who's priorities are "suburban" - because they came from cul-de-sac country. Am I saying they don't make good points ever? No. Hell I like to shop at Trader Joe's and stuff too. But I can't relate to them and they speak from unconscious privilege in a way that tends to grate my nerves.

They want to be arty and impractical and they're usually harmless and they can, so they should, and G-d bless them, everyone. I fully admit if I could have done some of that, I would have been on it like white on rice. I like the ones who admit they're lucky to be able to follow those impractical dreams.

Its the other ones who I wanna give the back of my hand. But, I don't think I'm better. So hopefully I won't go to hell.
 

Pompidou

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There's honor in hard work, all of it, if it's honest work, but I think most Americans work too hard for too little. Hipster ethos, if there is a unified one, would fit right in in Europe. Consider the recent strikes in France over having to work till American best case retirement age. When I was in England I was also surprised at the decrease in work hours. Americans work harder, but is it worth it? Maybe hipsters have a point. While I agree with the brunt of Lizzie's last post about the value of work, you have to wonder if it's really all there is? I don't know about you folks, but I don't work for the honor or virtue. If there was a way I could get all that I wanted in life without working, I would, but, money doesn't grow on trees. I work for the rewards that only money can buy. I don't believe I'm above working, but I do believe I'm above a certain threshold of quality of life. I'm entitled to a life a good paycheck can buy. I like to think everyone is. If hipsters have taken a stand against the rat race, I think more people should. They say don't mix business with pleasure, but I always say, if your business isn't a pleasure, change jobs.
 
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Maj.Nick Danger

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I don't think this is a thing of the moment. Hipsters have been around for ages in some form or another.
The only negativity I have towards hipsters is their condescending know-it-all attitude. I don't get how ALL of them seem to be like this!
Many hipsters rarely label themselves hipsters until someone else labels them such - it's then that they become unbearable.
I agree. Maybe there are subliminal messages in the hippest of music that puts them all in the same mindset? [huh]
 

Edward

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IMNSHO there's no reason to wear short trousers unless you are engaged in a legitimate sporting activity, retired or in grade school! :D

Even then.... They are the garments of children, and any man over the age of sixteen really should have no interest in them. The argument I loathe the most is "necessary for sport". Did Fred Perry win Wimbledon while sporting a pair of little boy's short trousers? No, he did not. Have any of his countrymen won Wimbledon since abandoning sensible trousers? No, they have not.



I think, maybe, you have um... not correctly visualized how I lived at 22. LOL.

Perchance we have a culturally different expectation of what the "single life" involves.

It certainly resonates with me -- I tend to have very little patience with people who think they're too good to work for a living. It's one thing to want to work and not be able to find work -- it's quite another to think working for a living is for suckers and that it's beneath one to be reduced to it.

It begins to sound like the US stereotype is rather different? Here the "hipster" "movement", in so far as such a thing exists, certainly shirks dull conformity, but it's more a stereotype that involves working in the media, entertainment business, or a satellite business thereto, not being a layabout as such.

I think the idea that the traditional work ethic is somehow tied to conspicuous two-car-garage consumerism is postwar middle-class bunk, manufactured and sold by the real-life Mad Men and bought by a generation of people who were too tired after fighting a war to know any better. Not everybody bought into it then, though -- not everybody cared about being "upwardly mobile" as long as they paid their bills on time, carried their share of the load, and kept their name out of the town report. That's the culture I was raised in, and I'm perfectly content to stay there. By today's standards I'm a nonconformist of the most dangerous, radical sort -- but I don't accept today's standards, so it doesn't matter.

As far as "I am the sum total of my work" is concerned, well, yeah, that's exactly what I am, and that's pretty much what everyone else is too, whether they like it or not. Life itself is work -- work doesn't begin and end when you punch the clock. Every breathing moment of life is work, and we're deluding ourselves if we think otherwise. And -- judging from the life my brother's led -- it's a lot harder work to be lazy and shiftless than it is to actually bear down to a job.

This leads off into another debate entirely, I think... but interesting. I agree on the psychological benefits of having a job, on contributing to society, on earning your own money and being self sufficient and all that, but I've always been very resistant to the idea of the job being the most important thing in my life ( I'm not "career-driven" per se), and I loathe being introduced outside of my employment context in a way which defines me by what I do for money. I know that's not what you're saying exactly, but it is pretty heavily engrained in our culture, over here at least.

They are too good for "your rat race" and "to buy into it all" - because their daddies did. They want to take time to backpack through Europe and pity people who's priorities are "suburban" - because they came from cul-de-sac country. Am I saying they don't make good points ever? No. Hell I like to shop at Trader Joe's and stuff too. But I can't relate to them and they speak from unconscious privilege in a way that tends to grate my nerves.

I'm no "hipster", but I do tend to find that as a species they are more open to my somewhat more conventional lifestyle than are the 'suburban' - or, in my case, more commonly semi-rural - folks I grew up among that seem mystified at my being satisfied with a life that didn't involved buying a house five minutes' walk from the parental nest and being married with three kids by the time I was twenty-four. Fair enough if that's what folks want - their choice, it's the inability to comprehend that not everybody else wants that which I find more irritating. My own personal experience is of much more closed-mindedness from that side of the fence than the "hipsters". [huh]

That just may be the answer!

I'm beginning to think that British hipsters are a little different from American ones??

It certainly seems so.
 

MisterGrey

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Coming into this thread a little late, but-- the "irony." That's why people hate hipsters. At least, it's why I hate hipsters. Dress how you want to dress, drink what you want to drink... but favoring Pabst Blue Ribbon because drinking it is "ironic"? WTF? Who the hell drinks something because it's ironic? I drink what I drink because I like it. And this whole "clear eyeglass lenses" thing? What, it's ironic that you actually have 20/20 vision and don't require an expensive optical aid to see, so you're going to buy some cheap plastic crap from the mall and prance around in it so that-- what? What is the freakin' point? It's not "ironic," it's not "subversive," it's lazy idiocy masquerading as some great cultural statement.
 
Actually, it doesn't. Hate truly is the correct way to describe the feelings being put forward by the people quoted in the kind of article that started the thread, and by several of the correspondents to this thread, it would seem. It's because the feelings are sooo strong that I am more baffled than I thought I would be.
 
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sixsexsix

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Agreed, I find this whole thread baffling. Writing off a huge section of the population (I would say about half of the 16-30ish set would fit into the "hipster" category in one way or another) based on their clothing is a little daft. All because someone is wearing skinny jeans, black rimmed glasses, or whatever else people seem to use to "classify" hipsters it means they're self-entitled and patronizing? Give me a break. Generalizations like this are incredibly disappointing. As we have seen throughout this thread and many others, all because a group of people enjoy the same aesthetic it doesn't mean they all have the same attitudes, views, morals, etc. There are many on this board who are just as self-righteous and snobby, but there are also many here who are open-minded, helpful, and amazing. If it's true here, I don't see why it isn't true with any other group.
 

scottyrocks

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I find it difficult to hate anything that has so little impact on my life. Is it 'ridiculous' to wear (non-tinted) glasses when you dont need them? I think so. Is it 'moronic' to drink a certain beer because its 'ironic?' Well, yeah, imho. But hate? Who really cares if someone feels fulfillment by doing what others feel is silly/(pick your own evaluative adjective)?

Maybe said drinker really likes PBR and also feels the need to make a lifestyle statement, using the beer as a means to do so. If so, thats still kinda silly, afaic, but thats their business, not mine. Cant hate for that.
 
The Guardian article was prompted by HackneyHipsterHate, which was kicked off by a particularly loud party. Now, I hate, despise, loud garden parties at 4AM when i'm trying to sleep. I find people's behaviour in general truly fascinating, and the apparent ability to take a noisy party and turn it into a deep seated hatred of a particular group of people is a leap of logic that is, quite frankly, mind boggling.

Some hipsters do irritating things, and obnoxious people are irritating, therefore all hipsters are obnoxious and I hate all hipsters. I just don't get that logic …
 

Fletch

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Coming into this thread a little late, but-- the "irony." That's why people hate hipsters. At least, it's why I hate hipsters. Dress how you want to dress, drink what you want to drink... but favoring Pabst Blue Ribbon because drinking it is "ironic"? WTF? Who the hell drinks something because it's ironic? I drink what I drink because I like it. And this whole "clear eyeglass lenses" thing? What, it's ironic that you actually have 20/20 vision and don't require an expensive optical aid to see, so you're going to buy some cheap plastic crap from the mall and prance around in it so that-- what? What is the freakin' point? It's not "ironic," it's not "subversive," it's lazy idiocy masquerading as some great cultural statement.
Real irony is expressed by thoughts, words, and actions. Not by appearances.

Then again, MilGen has not been brought up to be articulate, even when they engage in thought or action. (Damn few can do both.) So we're not likely to read a whole lot about them, just look at pictures.
 
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Fletch

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Ed

thanks for responding to Liz with a "foreign" perspective, which I think is not really so foreign, just marginalized over our way.

This of course isn't the place to drag out the Max Weber, so I'll just say that I was brought up by people who had been taught a toxic mutation on the Protestant work ethic, which they did their noble best to shield me from. As a result my W/E is too idealistic to do me much good - honest toil for honest coin and all that quaint twaddle.

A meaningful late-capitalist era W/E almost has to have a twinge of that toxicity - to have the force of coercion to replace the higher power that many no longer look to. They had God, we have The Man (sometimes called God). It goes way beyond chopping wood and carrying water. It is also a money ethic, a boss ethic, a competition ethic, an industrial ethic, a gender ethic.

Hipsters like those you describe, Ed, may in fact have a great W/E, but very often it is not meaningful in the above sense. I think many of them may want to have a stab at redefining the W/E or starting a new one. This will probably be very good for society as time goes on, but it is liable to be very costly for the generation that pioneers. They still have to live and earn by the old rules.
 
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LizzieMaine

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A meaningful late-capitalist era W/E almost has to have a twinge of that toxicity - to have the force of coercion to replace the higher power that many no longer look to. They had God, we have The Man (sometimes called God). It goes way beyond chopping wood and carrying water. It is also a money ethic, a boss ethic, a competition ethic, an industrial ethic, a gender ethic.

See, I think you're overanalyzing here. For me, what it boils down to is simple: if you don't work, you don't eat. Period. And you can dress it up in theory and wring your hands over it, but still, that's what it boils down to: unless you're willing to go out in the woods and forage for roots and berries -- which is much harder work than punching any time clock -- you're going to have to work for shelter and sustenance. It's been that way since the first civilization, and it'll be that way until the last civilization crumbles into dust. And there's a pretty good chance it's not going to be fun, but since when was there ever any guarantee that it would be? How is it that we think we're *entitled* to any special sense of fulfillment in what we do to survive, and that if we don't get it there must be something wrong?

Someone much wiser than me summed it up best: "Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do , do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest." And that's whither we *all* goest, like it or not -- the real secret of life, as far as I can see, is that there *is* no secret of life.
 

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