All You Need to Know About Hat Etiquette

[Walt]

Many traditional values and conventions are modified over time. I am pretty sure that there was a "problem" with people not removing their hats 100 to 150 years ago becuase it all ahas to do with if you were taught these conventions and if you see a value to them.

Go to any major league sporting event and see how many people leave their hats on during the national anthem.

Unfortunately as ball caps have become the predominant hat type and they are treated more like a casual thing no one treats them like a hat in the old school sense anymore. I've noticed that even people in their 50's and 60's don't remove hats when visiting private homes or other indoor situations where 30 years ago I never saw anyone leave a hat on in those situations.

Wasn't the pledge of allegiance pulled from CA schools years ago? Flag etiquette has been lost to most under 40 unless they have been in the military or the scouts including how to handle a hat in those situations.

 

[Walt]

Well there was something of a rebellion against these traditions starting in the late 60's with the boomer/youth/Vietnam era and those people are now in their 60's and 70's! The casualness sadly is even effecting those in their 80's and 90's.

Who knows maybe we are just moving to following those traditions and cultures were in ceremonies head covering must be worn!

 

[Mystic]

Either he was hard of hearing or doesn't value the tradition.

I am old enough to be a Viet Nam Vet...in fact I am a Viet Nam Vet.
And, I'm hard of hearing. [huh]

What I have observed is a break down in respect for EVERYTHING...including other people.
Kids are no longer taught respect for traditions or respect for others as it was once demanded of kids. It seems to me that being disrespectful has become somewhat acceptable.

I'm not much of a tradition guy...But, I do believe in showing respect.
To me it's not so much the tradition of removing a hat as removing a hat as a show of respect.
If one truly doesn't have respect for something. The tradition will not come to mind at the proper time.

If you remember back to the 50' and 60's most guys on TV wore suits and ties for a appearence on TV. it was not so much out of dressing up to be on TV as it was making a nice appearence out of respect for viewers.

Just my 2 cents...

 

[J.B.]

See it quite frequently at High School & College games where it ought to be taught to uncover your head & cover your heart during the anthem...

...Go to any major league sporting event and see how many people leave their hats on during the national anthem.

I've heard "and remove your hats" as part of the "please stand and join us in singing the National Anthem" at college games.
They didn't add that at the game I went to this past Saturday, and I could see a guy old enough to be a Viet Nam Vet in my section that kept his on while standing.

I am old enough to be a Viet Nam Vet...in fact I am a Viet Nam Vet...

Veterans may also choose to hand salute. See this and this.

 

[dnjan]

Veterans may also choose to hand salute.

I was a few rows behind him, and don't remember seeing his right elbo sticking out ...

and thanks for the link - I hadn't realized that hand salutes when out-of-uniform were now approved.

 

[John in Covina]

I'm not much of a tradition guy...But, I do believe in showing respect.
To me it's not so much the tradition of removing a hat as removing a hat as a show of respect.
If one truly doesn't have respect for something. The tradition will not come to mind at the proper time.

The depth of that statement is awesome. The concept of many traditions is often based on showing respect at the proper time. passing down traditions is passing down values and respect for valued ideas, people or things.

It's similar to when people speak and use salty language, there was a time when one knew what type of language one used in certain situations. When speaking to parents, elderly relatives, clergy, on TV, and to the judge at court a certain sense of reserve was suppose to kick in. Now, you have all of the lessons in values watching episodes of Jerry Springer and Maurie Povitch. The right to be outrageous for one's fifteen minutes of fame is leading people to lack respect, lack value systems that make sense or have traditions that should endure.

Military, Law Enforcement , Fire Departments and similar institutions using training and tradition to pass along important values that involve respect and how we relate to one another.

 

[Shel]

Excellent post. Clears it up for me. Thanks.

 

[TheDane]

We still haven't seen a generation that was satisfied with the following generation's conduct or ways of maintaining traditions. Culture and traditions have never been static, but we tend to live in the time-pocket of our youth - and for the rest of our lives understand/evaluate our surroundings according to the (courtesy-)rules and traditions of that time-pocket.

Some traditions live longer than others, but they will all change over time. That has been the rule through the entire human history, and it's hard to see any signs of change.

That said, it's always wise to show respect the best way you have learned - outdated or not. It's also always wise to try to adapt to the expectations of the surroundings - whether you enter an American diner or visit a room on the other side of the Earth. Respect and courtesy is the grease that makes every social structure work without friction

 

[hatsRme]

We still haven't seen a generation that was satisfied with the following generation's conduct or ways of maintaining traditions. Culture and traditions have never been static, but we tend to live in the time-pocket of our youth - and for the rest of our lives understand/evaluate our surroundings according to the (courtesy-)rules and traditions of that time-pocket.

Some traditions live longer than others, but they will all change over time. That has been the rule through the entire human history, and it's hard to see any signs of change.

That said, it's always wise to show respect the best way you have learned - outdated or not. It's also always wise to try to adapt to the expectations of the surroundings - whether you enter an American diner or visit a room on the other side of the Earth. Respect and courtesy is the grease that makes every social structure work without friction

As succinct as can be, Ole. Well put, Sir.

 

[John Galt]

Agreed. All of the hatequette rules generally boil down to showing respect anyway.


"Faint hat never won fair lady."

 

[facade]

Agreed. All of the hatequette rules generally boil down to showing respect anyway.


"Faint hat never won fair lady."

One might argue that respect and courtesy are as antiquated and irrelevant as hat etiquette.

Society today teaches that, as long as its legal, you can say and do whatever you please and no one is allowed to say boo about it. This certainly cultivates a me-first who cares about anyone else attitude. You have to look no further than these message boards for an example. Whenever anyone expresses a concern over what other people might think about their wearing a hat, what is the inevitable comment echoed and rep'd by numerous believers? Who cares what anyone else thinks, its what you think that matters.

I would suggest that nationally respect has been replaced by avoidance. Respect is dependent on a number of factors. A sense of community, shared beliefs and values, common language and culture, and consequences. Without these no one can come to a societal agreement on what is or is not respectful. Since there are no common rules of behavior, respect becomes impossible and we fall to avoidance. People doing everything in their power not to acknowledge the existence of the people around them. A NYC subway ride is the perfect example of this behavior. Almost everyone is doing all they can to be as off-putting as they possibly can. Headphones in the ears, eyes closed or buried in a book, electronic toy, newspaper etc., and never ever make eye contact.

Certainly respect exists in smaller gatherings amongst those who choose to be together, but in public, amongst strangers, where it is needed most, it has gone the way of hat etiquette.

 

[milliedog]

I would suggest that nationally respect has been replaced by avoidance. Respect is dependent on a number of factors. A sense of community, shared beliefs and values, common language and culture, and consequences. Without these no one can come to a societal agreement on what is or is not respectful. Since there are no common rules of behavior, respect becomes impossible and we fall to avoidance. People doing everything in their power not to acknowledge the existence of the people around them. A NYC subway ride is the perfect example of this behavior. Almost everyone is doing all they can to be as off-putting as they possibly can. Headphones in the ears, eyes closed or buried in a book, electronic toy, newspaper etc., and never ever make eye contact.

Certainly respect exists in smaller gatherings amongst those who choose to be together, but in public, amongst strangers, where it is needed most, it has gone the way of hat etiquette.

Respectfully- I have to disagree with the above. Just because I choose not to engage with people on public transit on the way to and from someplace does not mean I do not respect them. On the contrary, I respect their right to privacy, peace and quiet. Respect is more about understanding the situation you are in and acting appropriately. How disrespectful would it be to yammer on to the person seated next you if he/she is otherwise engaged? OTH it is also disrespectful to not engage with others in a social situation, dinner party, gatherings, etc. Appropriate behavior is what being respectful is all about.

 

[hatsRme]

Respectfully- I have to disagree with the above. Just because I choose not to engage with people on public transit on the way to and from someplace does not mean I do not respect them. On the contrary, I respect their right to privacy, peace and quiet. Respect is more about understanding the situation you are in and acting appropriately. How disrespectful would it be to yammer on to the person seated next you if he/she is otherwise engaged? OTH it is also disrespectful to not engage with others in a social situation, dinner party, gatherings, etc. Appropriate behavior is what being respectful is all about.

From my experience, NYC is probably one of the (or THE) most hostile social environments in the US. The subway is famous for people having to avoid eye contact. On the other hand, here in the Boston area, (and I'm certain elsewhere) I am aware of TWO successful marriages resulting from having met on a train or other form of daily commute. So don't shut down entirely. One of the things that is supposed to separate humans from other animals; judgement. We just have to use it to our advantage.

 

[TheDane]

Whenever anyone expresses a concern over what other people might think about their wearing a hat, what is the inevitable comment echoed and rep'd by numerous believers? Who cares what anyone else thinks, its what you think that matters.

We are in total agreement, except for the quoted statement. As long as your attire is not directly offending, I see it as a sound attitude, if you wear what you like to wear - and not what more or less random people in your surroundings would like you to wear.

Far worse are comments on the theme: "Who cares, what those imbecile idiots think? They just don't know the very first about class or style. So unlike gentlemen like you and I, Sir. Inferior fools!".

Now, that's pathetic in my eyes - and in reality completely self-contradictory! But it's also quite different from just not caring if other people like the look of your clothes, I think

 

[facade]

We are in total agreement, except for the quoted statement. As long as your attire is not directly offending, I see it as a sound attitude, if you wear what you like to wear - and not what more or less random people in your surroundings would like you to wear.

Far worse are comments on the theme: "Who cares, what those imbecile idiots think? They just don't know the very first about class or style. So unlike gentlemen like you and I, Sir. Inferior fools!".

Now, that's pathetic in my eyes - and in reality completely self-contradictory! But it's also quite different from just not caring if other people like the look of your clothes, I think

Regarding your example; I agree it is ill-mannered and contradictory. But I can not fault the person who replies thusly. It is how our leaders and media respond. They debate by attacking the person rather than their ideas. A "win" is accomplished by labeling the person as some form of 'ist' (sexist, racist etc.) or by attacking their intelligence, thereby invalidating anything they have to say. Regular folk just follow what they see on TV. Its far easier to paint a person with a label then it is to defeat an idea. Labels are black and white, ideas are grey.

 

[TheDane]

The first five words in my previous post are still valid - and covers your latest post, too

 

[jlee562]

Yeah, those kids today and their newfangled ipods. Nothing like the 'good old days' at all.

 

[Matt Crunk]

Being absorbed in your own world, reading a newspaper (or checking your iphone/ipad), while surrounded by strangers on a train is one thing. But kids sitting down at a restaurant table together, then conversing through social media instead of interacting with those right there in front of them is a bit disturbing, not to mention bad manners and just plain rude.

 

[jlee562]

Obviously those kids do not see their own actions as being rude to each other. If they're not taking offense, they obviously do not see it as rudeness.

Mores and values change over time. Doesn't mean we all have to like those changes, but I really wish people would stop reacting so incredulously to change, as if today's youth are the first generation to do so.

 

[TheDane]

Mores and values change over time. Doesn't mean we all have to like those changes, but I really wish people would stop reacting so incredulously to change, as if today's youth are the first generation to do so.

You are so right, and your generation is absolutely not the first to complain on exactly that subject. And I bet you, today's parent and grand-parent generations are not the last to act as they do, either. Most probably your comming children and grand children will second me on that sometime in the future - even if that seems impossible today. Today's youth will most likely not be the first generation in the history to act very different from what they in a younger age thought plausible

The children and grand children generations have never been "able to behave" - and the generations of parents and grand parents have always been "hopelessly oldfashioned and grumpy". Not much new there