All You Need to Know About Hat Etiquette

[facade]

You are so right, and your generation is absolutely not the first to complain on exactly that subject. And I bet you, today's parent and grand-parent generations are not the last to act as they do, either. Most probably your comming children and grand children will second me on that sometime in the future - even if that seems impossible today. Today's youth will most likely not be the first generation in the history to act very different from what they in a younger age thought plausible

The children and grand children generations have never been "able to behave" - and the generations of parents and grand parents have always been "hopelessly oldfashioned and grumpy". Not much new there

The sentiments remain the same. I see a difference though. Technology advances and society shifts so quickly that the experiences of the older generation become less and less relevant. For 1000's of years a grandparent was a source of wisdom, now their experiences are so irrelevant you'd learn more talking to a child. As this process accelerates the same will become increasingly true of the parents. The divide between generations is definitely at its greatest point in history and growing. Combine that with living in societies that inherently devalue anyone outside the acquisition phase of their life and you get a Sci-Fi movie plot. While we aren't at the Logan's Run stage yet, he's definitely trying on sneakers.

 

[DesertDan]

*Identify*

 

[TheDane]

facade: You may be right, though I don't see the much relevance to the context you quote. I fear it could show very shortsighted to expect that the results of the latest 50 years' changes with absolute certainty will be repeated in the future. Imagine a major scale attack on information technology. Then it would be hard to imagine today's youngest generations manage (or even survive) without their parents and grandparents very useful wisdom. Especially, if the attack and/or aftermath should turn out to be lengthy or very destructive. Many other scenarios are possible and plausible. I would say, that if you can learn more from talking to a child than from talking to an older person, you probably still have quite some stuff to learn and discover

Please note the caution expressed in: "Today's youth will most likely not be the first generation in the history to act very different from what they in a younger age thought plausible".

As you obviously are aware of the ever more speedy changes in society and technology, I wonder how you can be so very cocksure when it comes to predicting the future and it's direction. Maybe small signs of doubts could turn out to be wise in the long run

Anyway, the interesting thing in this thread is what implications all of this has when it comes to "Hat Etiquette"

 

[facade]

facade: You may be right, though I don't see the much relevance to the context you quote. I fear it could show very shortsighted to expect that the results of the latest 50 years' changes with absolute certainty will be repeated in the future. Imagine a major scale attack on information technology. Then it would be hard to imagine today's youngest generations manage (or even survive) without their parents and grandparents very useful wisdom. Especially, if the attack and/or aftermath should turn out to be lengthy or very destructive. Many other scenarios are possible and plausible. I would say, that if you can learn more from talking to a child than from talking to an older person, you probably still have quite some stuff to learn and discover

Please note the caution expressed in: "Today's youth will most likely not be the first generation in the history to act very different from what they in a younger age thought plausible".

As you obviously are aware of the ever more speedy changes in society and technology, I wonder how you can be so very cocksure when it comes to predicting the future and it's direction. Maybe small signs of doubts could turn out to be wise in the long run

Anyway, the interesting thing in this thread is what implications all of this has when it comes to "Hat Etiquette"

I am not sure of anything the future holds. Society has changed greatly, what impact these changes will have in the long run is anybodies guess. The Logan's Run comment was simply a joke.

 

[Lotsahats]

The Great Vowel Shift separated generations far more than we are experiencing now; when Middle English shifted pronunciations into pre-modern English, grandchildren and grandparents effectively ended up unable to communicate despite the fact that they were ostensibly speaking the same language. Clearly, however, this change in language did not presage the end of Western Civ or the imminent break-up of the nuclear family.

Societal change can be scary, especially when it's happening at an amazing rate, but I don't see the need to deplore the next generation. The teens and young adults I work with are amazing people, filled with passion and desire to improve the world--ok, not all of them, but most of them. That their methods are different from other generations should not surprise us at all. Their innovations, visions, and dreams should make us hopeful and proud.

Aaron

 

[TheDane]

Precisely, Aaron. My first post in this discussion was actually an attempt to downplay the generation issue a bit. Not much fruitful comes from nagging about lack of respect on one side and old fashioned grumpiness on the other. Never did between any generations-pair ... except, that "dumb grumpy" parents sometimes give the the kid a plausible reason to leave the nest at a point. That can be quite practical in the long parential view

 

[Lotsahats]

Precisely, Aaron. My first post in this discussion was actually an attempt to downplay the generation issue a bit. Not much fruitful comes from nagging about lack of respect on one side and old fashioned grumpiness on the other. Never did between any generations-pair ... except, that "dumb grumpy" parents sometimes give the the kid a plausible reason to leave the nest at a point. That can be quite practical in the long parential view

Agreed, Ole! Most leave for just long enough, too, to realize that maybe their parents were on to something...

 

[Strapped-4-Cache]

As I was growing up I was taught to not wear a hat indoors. Being a part of a military family probably played a large part in that training. I still remove any headwear as I approach a door, regardless if it's an office, home or business.

Last Sunday I was surprised when I somewhat offended an old family friend at church. She had seen me come in with my new hat, approached me and told me to put it on so she could see how it looked on me. I smiled, thanked her for her interest, and told her, "I'm sorry, but not in here." She was surprised that I was unwilling to wear my hat indoors, and especially in our church building, even after I explained that I had grown up with such manners expected of me.

We resolved the matter later by her seeing me outside with the hat on, but the incident still surprised me. Despite the current cavalier attitude toward hat wearing, I expected most people don't consider it acceptable for a man to wear a hat in church. Looks like I was mistaken.

 

[job]

I will wear a hat in the church but not in the sanctuary area.

 

[HeyMoe]

As I was growing up I was taught to not wear a hat indoors. Being a part of a military family probably played a large part in that training. I still remove any headwear as I approach a door, regardless if it's an office, home or business.

Last Sunday I was surprised when I somewhat offended an old family friend at church. She had seen me come in with my new hat, approached me and told me to put it on so she could see how it looked on me. I smiled, thanked her for her interest, and told her, "I'm sorry, but not in here." She was surprised that I was unwilling to wear my hat indoors, and especially in our church building, even after I explained that I had grown up with such manners expected of me.

We resolved the matter later by her seeing me outside with the hat on, but the incident still surprised me. Despite the current cavalier attitude toward hat wearing, I expected most people don't consider it acceptable for a man to wear a hat in church. Looks like I was mistaken.

I was raised the same way and really the only times I do not remove my hat is in a store or lobby / elevator. Once in a formal place of business, off it comes - that includes my own office. One thing that irks the hell out of me is seeing men eating at a restaurant with a ball cap on or sitting in church with a ball cap perched on their noggin. Take the damn thing off.

I was at a military funeral last week at a soldiers chapel at a veterans cemetery here in Vermont. One person wore a hat inside for the service (the deceased's brother who was in the military himself). I understand grieving but removing one's cover is a sign of respect in my less than humble opinion. Oddly enough he was also the only person who did not remove his cover at the graveside service for the benediction or taps (he did not salute either, as veterans are authorized to do, but just stood there hands in pockets)

I know that I start to get that nerve agent twitch if I wear my hat in a place where it should be removed and flashbacks of my dear ol Dad giving me that look.

 

[TheDane]

Customs and traditions are - and have always been - changing over time. Those changes have also always been controversial. It has always been hard for the older generations to accept them - whether they have been for the better or worse. Removing the hat is not necessarily a sign of respect - it could just as well be a habit, the person has been "mentally flogged" to remember. In my mind "respect" can have many different - but equally valid - expressions

 

[Lotsahats]

In my mind "respect" can have many different - but equally valid - expressions

As usual, I completely agree! In my tradition, it's more respectful to wear a hat in shul--synagogue, that is--or while eating, or while doing all kinds of things. I often sit around the house or the office in my fedoras. As well, there are countless reasons, personal as well as custom, that might induce a person to ear a hat. Judge favorably, as one of the sages puts it.

A

 

[Zombie_61]

As usual, I completely agree! In my tradition, it's more respectful to wear a hat in shul--synagogue, that is--or while eating, or while doing all kinds of things. I often sit around the house or the office in my fedoras. As well, there are countless reasons, personal as well as custom, that might induce a person to ear a hat. Judge favorably, as one of the sages puts it.

A

Places of worship can often be confusing to those unfamiliar with what is considered to be "proper" etiquette. For example, in a church (i.e. a place of worship for the Christian faith) traditionally men should remove their headcoverings, but women should cover their heads (hence the veils often seen being worn by women in Catholic churches). But, as I understand it, in a synagogue (i.e. a place of worship for the Jewish faith) traditionally it is the opposite--men should cover their heads, but women should not. And for places of worship for the so-called "Eastern" religions (i.e., Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism, etc.) I have no idea what the proper etiquette is.

As for funerals and/or memorial services, I'm inclined to be more "forgiving" simply because people's emotions can often dominate their behavior. Also...well, personally, I tend to consider the person the service is for. For example, normally I'd wear a suit to a person's funeral/memorial service. But when a very good friend died a couple of years ago I wore a collared, button-up shirt and jeans to her memorial service simply because I knew she would have whacked me in the head (if she'd been there in physical form) if I'd worn a suit--that's the kind of informal person she was, and the people in attendance who knew her best were dressed similarly.

 

[scottyrocks]

In Jewish shul, married women cover their heads, even if with only a lace doily pinned on, while unmarried women do not.

 

[NicholasJones]

I agree on the etiquette, as well as the lack of hat racks. I never leave home or even my room without my beloved hat.

 

[hatsRme]

While exploring a venue for my NEXT colossal extravaganza, (daughter #2's wedding... AAarrrrg!!) the fiancé inquired about a coat check room attendant. While the subject had been broached, I couldn't help myself, and had to ask about a HAT-check girl. The twenty-something (yrs. of age) gal giving the tour answered that they had never had any group "classy enough" to need a hat check girl.

The venue is not at the bottom of the social barrel. On the contrary, maybe it may even be considered "high falutin." We are elevating them to the next level... HIGHER falutin!

This etiquette issue/comment should also be on the "Nicest Comments" thread!

 

[Strapped-4-Cache]

Many thanks for the various points of view posted in this thread. I sometimes have a hard time thinking beyond my own training, and it's good to learn about the many opinions regarding headwear etiquette.

I admit that I have been in a few situations in which my upbringing tells me to remove my hat, but the inconvenience of doing so urges me to do otherwise, such as entering a building while my hands are full, juggling stuff I'm holding in order to remove my hat, etc. My training has always won the mental debate, but the insights posted in this thread may allow me to be a bit less "legalistic" and either formulate a different set of personal rules or (suppressing mental tic) allow each situation determine the need to remove my hat.

Thanks again for the feedback.

 

[Zombie_61]

In Jewish shul, married women cover their heads, even if with only a lace doily pinned on, while unmarried women do not.

This is the first time I've heard this, and I thank you most sincerely for the information! :yo:

 

[Lotsahats]

While Scottyrocks makes a good point, that's only in traditional or Orthodox shuls. In the Reform movement, neither men nor women cover their heads.

 

[argyle]

I are so against this so called etiquette of hat wearing, and when to remove your hat ect.

I never tell a lady to pop her boobs a back in a bit lower if they are bursting out of her blouse!
I never tell a man he looks like a dill in a tie!

So as far as etiquette goes ......anyone who would like to comment on my wearing of a hat anywhere I please can show some real etiquette and keep their opinions to themselves. Or my hat may come off....