All You Need to Know About Hat Etiquette

[Big Man]

You and me both, Big Man! I don't even remember being taught this--it's just the way it's always been.

Cheers,
Tom

The older I get, the more I am thankful that my parents and grandparents took the time to teach me (by example) - and EXPECTED me to use - "good manners". There were no formal "rules", just good, common sense manners that you use to show respect to others.

 

[Big Man]

Start with a cage containing five monkeys. In the cage, hang a banana on a string and put stairs under it. Before long, a monkey will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the banana.

...

After replacing the fourth and fifth original monkeys, all the monkeys which have been sprayed with cold water have been replaced. Nevertheless, no monkey ever again approaches the stairs.

Why not?

"Because that's the way it's always been done around here."

Why not? Because they are a bunch of dang MONKEYS.

 

[Lefty]

dang monkeys following a custom

 

[Big Man]

dang monkeys following a custom

Following customs can be good and bad. The secret (and our advantage over the monkeys) is having the intelligence to understand why we are following the custom.

 

[Lefty]

That's exactly the point of the story. It's the whole "an unexamined life is not worth living" thing. One should be courteous out of respect for the recipient, not because a rule dictates the conduct.

 

[Tango Yankee]

which is the worst reason to do anything.

I read this a few years ago, and it's stuck with me like nothing else.
***

You misread my meaning, Lefty. What I meant is that somewhere along the way this custom was ingrained in me, apparently subtly as I do not remember being told to do so. My wife, on the other hand, recalls being taught by her father (as he moved to the curb side while they were walking) that a gentleman always walks on the curb side. The fact that it's something that I do somewhat automatically is appreciated by her.

I suppose we could all stop doing those little things that we call good manners, because "that's the way it's always been" is "the worse reason to do anything." We could all stop holding/opening doors for each other, saying "please" and "thank you" and all the other little customs and courtesies that are the lubricant of civilization. Of course, if we did that, then we really would be little better than monkeys, wouldn't we?

Regards,
Tom

 

[Tango Yankee]

That's exactly the point of the story. It's the whole "an unexamined life is not worth living" thing. One should be courteous out of respect for the recipient, not because a rule dictates the conduct.

Now, see, this is where a lot of people get it wrong. I've heard it said before that "I don't give anyone respect--they have to EARN it!" People with this attitude fail to realize it's the treating everyone you meet along the way with courtesy and respect is one of the prime lubricants of a civilized society. After all, it takes time to get to know someone. Do you treat strangers rudely just because they've not earned your respect despite the fact that they've had no previous interaction with you? Do you not feel annoyed when someone you don't know treats you without courtesy? Or do you simply acknowledge that you've not yet earned their respect?

Myself, I feel things go a lot better if I treat strangers with respect. If they're around long enough for me to get to know them my respect for them will either grow or diminish, but just starting out I think it's enough to respect someone for simply being a fellow human being.

And what makes you think that those of use who learned and still follow older customs and manners haven't examined them, and found them good?

Regards,
Tom

 

[MattJH]

I suppose we could all stop doing those little things that we call good manners, because "that's the way it's always been" is "the worse reason to do anything." We could all stop holding/opening doors for each other, saying "please" and "thank you" and all the other little customs and courtesies that are the lubricant of civilization.

First and foremost, welcome back Tango! It's been a while since I've seen a post from you. A lot of my initial knowledge about hats came from learning from your posts. So, no irony intended, but a tip of the hat to you.

I wanted to comment on this just so that I'm not misunderstood from my own post regarding this. I am an ISTJ in the Myers-Briggs Personality Test. The traditionalist, the duty fulfiller, the one with the old standards. I hold common courtesy in very high regard, but the intricacies of hat wearing in the early part of the 20th century are detailed and voluminous, from when to doff and don depending on your environment, your company, the time of day, which room in a building you're in, what type of event it is, and so on. This is much, much different than "common courtesy."

I am merely suggesting that expecting other people to uphold these intricacies when wearing their own hats isn't only unrealistic, it borders on absurd in 2009. It's not because this current generation has failed at anything; it's simply not a part of their current social fabric.

Taking your hat off when indoors? Sure, I can see that. To be honest, I don't agree with it, since it's only a sign of disrespect because somebody said that it is, not because there is something about it that is actually disrespectful. If somebody spits in my direction, it's disrespectful. If somebody speaks to me with condescension, it's disrespectful. If I light up a cigarette in somebody's home without asking permission first, it's disrespectful. But keeping your hat on indoors? I genuinely could not possibly care less. However, if I am indoors and somebody asks me to remove my hat (if I haven't already), I will do so immediately and without argument or offense. It doesn't matter to me why they're offended by it, just that they are, and that's good enough for me to do something effortless like remove my hat. It's a small price to pay to keep the balance. If somebody hollers at me over me wearing my hat, however, then... well, they're being very disrespectful! Heh.

I can summarize my feelings on hat etiquette like this: Follow it if you wish, learn it if you're fascinated, but let others do as they will without judgment or personal slight. If the general populace can't tell the difference between the hat Harrison Ford wore in the Indiana Jones movies and the various "official" Indiana Jones hats sold all over the place, can the general populace truly be expected to tip their hats when a lady enters an elevator? And so on and so on and so on? Of course not, and they're not worse people for it, either. Every mall has a store that caters to baseball caps only, and they make a killing in their tills at the end of every night. Times change, fashions change, and even courtesies change.

It seems that some participants here look at the youth today with disdain and furrowed brows, and that's a shame because it's based exclusively upon their own sense of fashion. A backwards baseball cap, jeans, and sneakers at a restaurant table seems to be the cause of alarm for some. But it's fashion, it's not a soul. We are, after all, talking about hats, so let's make sure everything is kept within context and big-picture priority here. This is a wonderful and interesting and intelligent and growing and literate and congenial microcosm, but a microcosm nonetheless, and sometimes it fringes upon elitist. It's natural in a microcosm, but sometimes we should check ourselves.

Common courtesy: Absolutely
Decades-old hat etiquette: Not for most

 

[Tango Yankee]

Thanks, Dumbjaw! It's much appreciated.

I fully agree that for your generation, and mine, really, when it comes to hats, the intricacies of good hat etiquette simply were not taught. In my case, it was because my father did not wear a hat and I don't really recall wearing so much as a cap very often, other then during my brief stint in the Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts. What I did learn was the general "off indoors, on outdoors." Along the way I picked up some of the finer points, by reading and watching old movies most likely. Of course, in the service we had our own specific rules but in truth they could be summed up by "On outside, off inside (unless performing duties while under arms.) How the cap was worn on the head was spelled out, as well.

Now, in reality, how important is it that I take my hat off when a lady joins me in the elevator? Not important at all in the grand scheme of things. There are those who haven't a clue as to why it was done, but there are those who still recognize it for what it is, gesture of respect, and appreciate it. Maybe it gives them a little lift; if it's a woman of an age that can recall when hats were common, it may come as a pleasant surprise and bring back memories.

Why take off my hat when I enter a home? Well, as has been stated ad nauseam here, because it's a traditional act of courtesy. To me, leaving it on gives the message that you'd rather be on your way somewhere else, that you're ready to leave right now. Baseball caps, not so much--perhaps because I'm just used to seeing them worn in just about every situation, perhaps because they're a lot more casual-looking. As a practical matter, taking it off keeps me from overheating and walking out with sweat-soaked hair.

As for the little details of when to take off your hat or when to leave it on (off when you stop to chat with a woman on the sidewalk, for example) and other arcane bits of hat etiquette? Well, if you didn't grow up with them and have them ingrained in your daily life it's not so easy to keep track of all of them and I really don't expect very many people to do so. Not everyone has spent years or decades automatically reaching for their hat/cap as they enter a building. But the over-all general ones? Yeah, I think they're worth while to maintain.

You're right, of course, about courtesies evolving over time. In this case, though, for a lot of us it seems more of a de-evolution to the point of a complete lack of courtesy regarding hat wearing.

But to address specifically the comment that you quoted, it wasn't aimed at the ideas that the fine points of hat wearing should be strictly enforced so much at Lefty's apparent opinion that any courtesies or what we call good manners are things that in themselves are not worthy of keeping in society.

As for Meyers-Briggs? I don't recall the specific letter group my own came out to (started with an I, that much I recall) but it was what the psychologist who had given it to us referred to as "Self Actualizers." Out of almost a hundred of us there were only two of this group. 75 percent were what she called "God and Country" types. Not a surprise, seeing that the group was made up of USAF Technical Sergeants attending the NCO Academy at Bergstrom AFB outside of Austin, TX in 1989.

Regards,
Tom

 

[Tango Yankee]

Geez, once you get me started... lol lol

 

[Lefty]

Lefty's apparent opinion that any courtesies or what we call good manners are things that in themselves are not worthy of keeping in society.

That's not even close to what I wrote, which is that outmoded rules should be examined before they're used as a justification to look down on someone as unmannerly. If it's not worth keeping, sure, toss it out - but don't do things blindly. That's why I posted the quote about a woman getting exercise by holding her parasol up while traveling in a canoe. Maybe that made sense in 1920, but it's clearly outmoded.

This thread is about antiquated hat rules. Much in the same way that many here will go to the movies and bemoan the fact that the 16 year olds aren't wearing suits, many of the hat wearers here want to impose 1920s derby etiquette upon a 2009 baseball cap population. It's quite possible to be polite and live in modern society at the same time.

 

[leo]

WWBD? (What Would Bogey Do?)

Simply use the Bogey test:

Heading to the 47th floor? Wear your hat through the lobby past the homeless guy with his Dodgers ball hat turned backwards, tip your hat to the lady on the elevator (assuming it is not packed full of humanity...and who had the greek salad at snack stand), stride down the hallway purposefully, walk through the door of the office in question, remove your hat with a practiced snap, and tell the receptionist that you want to see Mr. Bigshot...now!

Walking along Fifth Avenue in February with a beautiful dame? Take the outside so she does not get splashed by brown slush kicked up by taxis or near-extinct bicycle messengers, pull up your coat collar and pull down your hat brim to protect against the bitter wind, and make sure you set a time to meet her later at the club, where you, of course, will remove your hat.

Attending a sporting event? Keep your brim down to hide your eyes at the ticket window when selecting BlueStreak to show in the fourth. Later, be sure to tip your hat back on your head and grin after you realize the trifecta ticket you bought just paid 150 to 1.

Bill

 

[PabloElFlamenco]

I've been in awe at dumbjaw's discourse, but I've learned that I can't tip my hat to a guy without risking his ire. Go figure! [huh]

Etiquette is fine; I'm trying to learn it, without outlandishness, a form of social art.

Etiquette may not ever be -ill- conceived as a manner in which to show off one's status upon the social ladder, a way in which to -allegedly- show off one's material or, heavens forbid, purported moral superiority. Maybe this is where, in the past as today, the shoe may have, in many instances, wrung.

The street produces art equally as interesting as the academy, just not as refined. Too much refinement produces thin air. Too much street, insecurity.

Fashion is a fickle thing. Respect is not. As always, the good manner is a carefully considered middle road. Respect, always to be offered in advance, is a resource which, whilst it may under certain circumstances save one's life, provides the base essence without which there can be no society, only the realm of animals (and plants).

Respect with guns, or bombs, simply does not exist. That's a false definition of respect, based on "he owes me". It never works, and always boomerangs.

When a funeral procession (we still have those, rarely on foot, mostly in automobiles) goes by, I have always removed my hat or cap or, if barehead, bowed my head... As of this day, I know nothing of any "etiquette" involved, I threw away my mom's Amy Vanderbilt's book years ago.

Regrets come with age.

Have a good day.

Paul

 

[Alchemy5150]

Great posts!!! As a newbie in the hat community, I need to know this kind of stuff.

Personally, I'm a bit divided on the whole etiquette debate. I've never believed in the whole "Do things this way because that's the way we've all agreed that they should be done" philosophy, but at the same time, I don't think that all things of this nature are harmful either. I understand why little rules like this were created, and as long as they make sense, I'm obliged to follow them. Personally, as a society, i think we've done away with too much etiquette.

 

[Caity Lynn]

This was fascinating...Although now I want to know the proper etiquette for ladies hats...although they were often pinned in place...

you know, sadly, the only time a gentleman has ever tipped/lifted his hat at me was at school, during spirit week on Cowboy and Indian day, a "cowboy" lifted it and said "ma'am" and I returned the gesture with my own cowboy hat...

 

[yoonie]

Nowadays, it's hard to follow most hat etiquette. The reasons range from stylistic (few fashionable hairstyles survive under a fedora these days), to the logistical (why are there no hat hooks....anywhere?). Also, i feel painfully unpracticed in the art of a gentlemanly tip of that hat. I simply grab at air till my hand encounters a brim, then pull.

 

[Caity Lynn]

Saw this and it amused me...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyCt3G7Q8Y

2:07 even the crooks followed the rules of Ettiquette!

 

[Johnnysan]

It's about time...

The Committee finally relaxed Rule 196!

 

[MattJH]

Love it, Johnnysan.

 

["Skeet" McD]

Wonder if you can still do this?

My main question has to do with wearing a hat into a restaurant. Most restaurants now-a-days do not have a place to check your hat and coat. The last thing I want to do is get a grub stain on my hat or have it fall on the floor and get stepped on...

One of my happiest memories of Dublin--during the 1982 James Joyce festivities--was going to Bewley's Oriental Tea Rooms (whose last redecoration appeared to have been somewhere between 1895 and 1905) with a fair companion, both of us in full 1904 attire (myself in black sack suit with bowler hat; you can see a picture here: http://www.james-joyce-music.com/bio_kevinmcdermott.html at the bottom of the page).

Ah! when people knew how to live [properly]. Every seat in the place had a shelf between the legs on which to place your hat. The ever-circling servers depositing buns or cakes as required: pay the reckoning at the end.

Perhaps a Dublin correspondent can tell us: does this wonderful bit of the past survive? Or has it been gobbled up by modernism....