ALL REPRO R.A.F. Irvin type jackets

[Spitfire]

Leather dressing for Irvins

I know this has been debated earlier...just could not find it.

What do you gents prefere as the best leather dressing for your Irvin.
Not for restoring old leather - merely as a protective/softener.

Is Pecard any good?

 

[aswatland]

Soren I have tried various products and keep coming back to Pecards Antique Leather Dressing. A light coat applied to your Irvin once in while will keep it in tip top condition. BTW I don't use any conditioner on new repro Irvins, only on orignals as they really don't need it!

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I would be very worried if i bought a brand new jacket and it needed to be conditioned. I would be looking for a good number of years of wear before conditioning. Time to build up a patina.

Add to that the fact that i dislike the sleekness of a freshly conditioned leather (I feel that an awful lot of people over-condition their jackets, following bad advice handed out from certain quarters - not from this forum, generally - and they end up looking like they've been dipped in oil).

bk

 

[Spitfire]

I wasn't thinking of doing it to my new WPG Irvin jacket - just planning ahead.
(And maybe thinking of some of my older ones in the closet.)

 

[holdemchamp1225]

Greetings all, newbie here...have a few questions for the experts?..

My name is Bruce and I guess I have just discovered the world of flying jackets

Anyways, I have spent the better part of the last 2 weeks reading through the original LARGE IRVIN thread and must say I found it to be wonderfully educational BUT also difficult to navigate through since there was so much info for various Irvin topics. I really do like the separation of repro and originals threads as it makes it easier to sift through.

Now onto my questions. I am currently debating between getting an original or a repro. I know most of the forum members would recommend finding an original in good to great condition for the nostalgic significance BUT I am torn because I will want to wear my new jacket as much as the weather will allow. This ONE factor is what keeps me from just going ahead and buying an ORIGINAL!! It seems most of the members here who have originals ALSO HAVE repros. That is what I have understood in my reading of the original thread. Is this because most DO NOT wear their originals as much due to fragility of the original or to just PROTECT the original from damage. Guess my question would be: if one such as myself, a relative newbie, were looking to purchase an Irvin jacket should I look at an original in wearable condition and just wear the HELL of out it without thinking much about damaging the jacket or should I lean more towards a repro and not worry so much? That is the BIG question for me!!

Now regarding repros. I am currently looking at ELC. From what I have read, it seems to be the best repro offered at this moment. I would like to know others' opinions regarding the Cockpit Clothing Co. (BofB limited ed. from a few years back, currently one on Ebay in my size) and maybe various others. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!

BTW, I am also going to purchase a B-3. Currently also considering an Eastman but still undecided if it will be a Redskins or 2tone. Guess I am leaning towards the 2tone as that would offset the Irvin jacket more and not be too similar in appearance since the Redskins model would kinda be similar.

This would be a hypothetical question BUT since I have been sifting through the threads I also noticed Goodwear jackets by John Chapman. I know he is not making any B-3s or Irvins BUT does anyone know if he intends to? If so, then it might be worth it to wait for one from him since he is so highly regarded for repros of his A-2, A-1, and other jackets. Sorry this is going off-topic BUT just want to convey all my thoughts.

Cheers,

Bruce

 

[Hawk_Eye]

I've owned both repros and originals. However, the only one i have now is a repro 42 pattern from Eastman. Why? For exactly the reason you stated, I wanted a jacket that I could wear hard, every day for the whole winter. Something i could throw over the back of a chair or barstool, roll up in a ball, etc. With the originals I had, though they were strong, I never felt comfortable beating up on them. I felt I would be damaging an irreplacible piece of history if I wore it the way I wanted to wear an Irvin. So I sold it on and got the ELC. Now thats not to say I would never wear an original, when finances pick up I would love to get another nice original to wear on special occasions. But personally, for everyday wear Im very happy with my ELC.

 

[Windsock]

My opinion,

You should get a repro from ELC- forget about an original unless you are a collector of vintage flying kit with a particular interest in this history.

John's not planning to make Irvins.

 

[feltfan]

Have you guys seen the price WPG is offering at the moment
for their Irvins? $350. It's so crazy I had to send a PM to Spitfire
just to make sure it was the same great jacket.
I doubt you can do better than twice that price.
If I didn't live in California, where I could enjoy that jacket less
than one month a year, I'd be driving to Salinas to pick mine up
in person!

http://www.whatpriceglory.com/raf.htm

 

[ethanedwards]

Hi Bruce, if you're after this type of jacket more for it's timeless styling, then a repro is possibly a better choice. With plenty of hard wear it should only improve in appearance and comfort but I doubt if the same could be said of an original. Originals are certainly robust enough, but I don't know how well they would stand up to a regular beating. (Anyone own up to trashing an original?)
But moving on to the nostalgic significance you mention - regardless of when it was made, you could say that any Irvin is merely an amalgam of sheepskin, cotton and brass. So for me at least, owning an original is more to do with a kind of emotional connection with the past and the men who originally wore them - an impalpable quality, which a repro might not so successfully capture. I think Hawkeye is right, if can end up with one of each then you'll have it covered.
Good luck with your choice, be good to know how you get on.

 

[KilroyCD]

Have you guys seen the price WPG is offering at the moment
for their Irvins? $350. It's so crazy I had to send a PM to Spitfire
just to make sure it was the same great jacket.
I doubt you can do better than twice that price.
If I didn't live in California, where I could enjoy that jacket less
than one month a year, I'd be driving to Salinas to pick mine up
in person!

http://www.whatpriceglory.com/raf.htm

Feltfan, that is an excellent price, and I took advantage of WPG's after Christmas sale to save an additional $17.50 on the jacket. It would be worth looking into one, even though you don't have a relatively long cold season to wear one. However, I don't know if WPG is stocking these in their Salinas warehouse, as mine is still on its way to me from their United Arab Emirates warehouse. Mine just cleared Customs this morning, so I hope to have mine in the very near future.

 

[holdemchamp1225]

Can someone please tell me the difference between a WPG and ELC Irvin? And KILROY...

And Kilroy, could you please tell me how much the customs bill will be and how long it took for you to receive the jacket after initial order? I am currently in my home near Cannes. Thanks.

 

[Spitfire]

And Kilroy, could you please tell me how much the customs bill will be and how long it took for you to receive the jacket after initial order? I am currently in my home near Cannes. Thanks.

In short: The ELC is the Rolls Royce of repro Irvins - The most precise repro, the best fleece, the best zippers and leather all around.
The WPG is also very precise in design - but with a price like theirs, they have to cut some corneres. The belt and tapes are not leather, the brassbusckle is lighter and the fleece is "slightly lighter" than that of ELC (So I have heard. - Never handled a ELC though)
Butt all in all - it's a damn nice jacket to the price.
Hope this helps.

 

[holdemchamp1225]

Thank you Spitfire for explaining the WPG Irvin...(more)

I guess I am DEFINITELY leaning towards an Irvin from ELC. Bad news is I think I will have to wait since they do not have my size in stock (38), although from what I have read I think I could get away with a 40 from them since people claim they run a little small.

Does anyone have a suggestion for size from ELC given my measurements of:

Height: 5'10"

Chest relaxed: 32 1/2"

Chest expanded (breathe in): 34"

Waist: 29 1/2"

Stomach: 30 1/2"


One last question. How does RMNZ compare with ELC? They seem to be more expensive BUT is there a real difference or is it just the money that is the difference. I guess this could be answered best by John Lever or anyone else who has owned jackets from both companies so as to give aa truly comprehensive comparison. Any help and answers would be great appreciated.

I guess I have been bitten quite hard by the shearling flight jacket bug as I NOW plan on getting an ORIGINAL Irvin (size 3 or 4), a repro Irvin (ELC, RMNZ, ?), and a B-3 (ELC or other recommendations from forum members?).

lol

Already have the other seasons covered as I was given some nice HH jackets from my father and fiance. Although I could see a Goodwear A-1(Cape leather) or an A-2(Vermont Expresso HH or Russett Goatskin). lol

 

[John Lever]

I agree that ELC make the best Irvin repro . RMNZ don't make one but their specialised sub company The Few does. I have only seen photos of the jacket, but do have a skin sample. The sample looks like a piece of skin from a mummified sheep. The wool is a dead orange colour and the leather outer has a oil on water type colour/ texture that is not very attractive or reminiscent of any original jacket I have seen.
Regarding quality and authenticity comparisons, both companies make very high quality items. Perhaps RM just have the edge on their sheep skins as they have more character and great wool colour and density. To some extent though this superiority has been countered by ELC's Broken Finish.
For UK customers the main consideration is the present weakness of the pound and swinging import duties that can add a further 25 % cost to the original price. RM's range is also quite small as their more complicated designs are now only available through The Few.
I have the new ELC Anj-4 and a 3 year old Anj-4 from RM, the RM is about 25 % heavier which is not necessarily a good thing.

 

[holdemchamp1225]

Thank you Mr. Lever for your honest assessment of both Co. and also Paddy...(more)

I would definitely be interested in your Pre-War Irvin. What is the size of the jacket? I will try and get my post count up to receive PMs. Meanwhile, I will look at the classifieds also. I have already posted there with WANTED ads.

 

[H.Johnson]

Originals are certainly robust enough, but I don't know how well they would stand up to a regular beating. (Anyone own up to trashing an original?)

Yes, several, including the one my dog used to sleep on and one that was burned trying to put out an engine fire on a friend's Model A. Surely jackets are meant to be worn - I could never see the point of owning a jacket you're not going to wear.

If you get a jacket in good condition in the first place it shouldn't deteriorate with careful use. I recently parted with an 'Irvin' I had worn regularly for thirty years and was still in good condition - possibly better than when I acquired it.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

even smaller than me.

I don't see how you could possibly get away with any larger than a 36. from what i've seen of repro Irvins they are cut big, anyway. I wouldn't go above a size 1 original (maybe size 2) or a size 34 repro if i were you.

If it's not impertinent, what age are you? Still growing? If so, i would seriously advise against such an investment until you've stopped growing.

bk

I guess I am DEFINITELY leaning towards an Irvin from ELC. Bad news is I think I will have to wait since they do not have my size in stock (38), although from what I have read I think I could get away with a 40 from them since people claim they run a little small.

Does anyone have a suggestion for size from ELC given my measurements of:

Height: 5'10"

Chest relaxed: 32 1/2"

Chest expanded (breathe in): 34"

Waist: 29 1/2"

Stomach: 30 1/2"


One last question. How does RMNZ compare with ELC? They seem to be more expensive BUT is there a real difference or is it just the money that is the difference. I guess this could be answered best by John Lever or anyone else who has owned jackets from both companies so as to give aa truly comprehensive comparison. Any help and answers would be great appreciated.

I guess I have been bitten quite hard by the shearling flight jacket bug as I NOW plan on getting an ORIGINAL Irvin (size 3 or 4), a repro Irvin (ELC, RMNZ, ?), and a B-3 (ELC or other recommendations from forum members?).

lol

Already have the other seasons covered as I was given some nice HH jackets from my father and fiance. Although I could see a Goodwear A-1(Cape leather) or an A-2(Vermont Expresso HH or Russett Goatskin). lol

 

[ethanedwards]

Yes, several, including the one my dog used to sleep on and one that was burned trying to put out an engine fire on a friend's Model A. Surely jackets are meant to be worn - I could never see the point of owning a jacket you're not going to wear.

If you get a jacket in good condition in the first place it shouldn't deteriorate with careful use. I recently parted with an 'Irvin' I had worn regularly for thirty years and was still in good condition - possibly better than when I acquired it.

Shame on you H. Johnson! I agree in that I would not wish to own a jacket I could not wear. But as originals are presumably a diminishing resource, it seems sensible to preserve them - if not for ourselves, then for those who come after. I'll go along with 'careful use'....... but firefighting in one might
fall someway short of this proviso................!

 

[holdemchamp1225]

Thank you for the assessment Baron Kurtz...

I took these measurements wearing only a thin undershirt. I would probably want to wear a thick turtleneck or jumper underneath the Irvin in most cases. From what I have read, I do understand that the originals are cut big. Maybe I should be looking for a size 2 or 3 maximum!! I was also worried about the length since I am thin but at 5'10" I was thinking that the size 2 might be a tad short. What do you think about the length of a size 2 or 3 with my height? Thanks again for your help.

BTW, I am 35 so I guess I stopped growing

I don't see how you could possibly get away with any larger than a 36. from what i've seen of repro Irvins they are cut big, anyway. I wouldn't go above a size 1 original (maybe size 2) or a size 34 repro if i were you.

If it's not impertinent, what age are you? Still growing? If so, i would seriously advise against such an investment until you've stopped growing.

bk

 

[KilroyCD]

My WPG Irvin has arrived

My long awaited WPG Irvin has arrived, and I can say that I really like it. It looks good, and the synthetic seam tapes aren't as obtrusive as I expected them to be. I have one major problem though, and that is with the zipper. It broke the first time I wore the jacket. The box (the piece at the bottom of the zip) came off when I unzipped. I didn't lose it and it's easily fixable, but I'm just debating whether to repair it or send it back for replacement. On one hand, I'd like to send it back, but on the other hand I don't want to have to wait for the replacement.