Alexander Leathers

[Sloan1874]

And you with a Bowie avatar...

The man's a god, I won't hear any different.

 

[Don Tomaso]

A disaster with a particularly hot wash, and a whole generation of fashion atrocities was created...

You say these haircuts have been caused by too hot washing? Quite fascinating.

 

[Dickie Teenie]

Bowie's plea to Scotland was un god like, he should have threathened like others in England. The only thing worse then those Bay City Rollers pic's are the current Bay City Rollers pic's.....ouch!

 

[Sloan1874]

I always feel a little sad when I see pics of the Bay City Rollers. Given the hard lives they had after the fame and the crappy way they were treated by their nasty, abusive manager Tam Paton, those smiles look a little forced.

 

[theundeadkennedy]

Are they still performing together?

I saw them play in Santa Cruz about ten years ago and it was a pretty good show, wouldn't mind a chance to catch them again at some point.

 

[Dickie Teenie]

Getting back to AL jackets, if their leather looks as bad in real life as in their pictures I don't feel bad for missing out on some of the sale jackets. Just not going to risk it no matter the price. Got a BK jacket in the queue instead.

 

[rocketeer]

Are they still performing together?

I saw them play in Santa Cruz about ten years ago and it was a pretty good show, wouldn't mind a chance to catch them again at some point.

Like a lot of these groups that split up, I guess one of them wants a solo career or something, it doesnt happen, so years later when we all want to watch our teen idols(Not necessarily the Rollers I may add) A member decides to re-form the group. Then another member does not want to join but feels the bands name was his as he was lead singer or whatever so starts his own band. We now may have: The Bay City Rollers, The Original Bay City Rollers and Les Mckeown's Bay City Rollers, all have members of the group in each one.
Now take the Platters, they have never been out of the limelight , though non of the original artistes that sang on their greatest hits are probably all dead, they are still going strong headed by? Your guess is as good as mine, the guy cleaning the toilets when 'Only You' was recorded
Easy to spot real 'Rollers' fans at a gig, all grey haired ladies around 50-55 waving tartan scarves.

 

[Sloan1874]

I think they tour their hits in various combinations, but no 'official' band. In fact, a quick check of their wiki page suggests that they're probably too preoccupied suing their old label for back royalties to bother touring.

 

[Grayland]

Getting back to AL jackets, if their leather looks as bad in real life as in their pictures I don't feel bad for missing out on some of the sale jackets. Just not going to risk it no matter the price. Got a BK jacket in the queue instead.

The pics posted here of AL jackets have looked pretty nice. The goatskin seems to be awesome.

 

[Dickie Teenie]

I may have sounded too harsh and your right some have looked pretty nice but i guess I'm after awesome in just a few different jackets. I might pick up a goatskin in the future.

 

[thor]

Getting back to AL jackets, if their leather looks as bad in real life as in their pictures I don't feel bad for missing out on some of the sale jackets. Just not going to risk it no matter the price. Got a BK jacket in the queue instead.

The best thing to do is ask for samples. Much better then assessing the quality by just looking at website photos (Aero is a good example of web pics not doing the actual jacket justice).

 

[IXL]

All because of a photo of a 1970s pop group How much more Fedora Lounge can you get

This thread has been almost as good as the "leather jackets and Blues music" thread awhile back. You never know what you're 'gonna get around this place! I stayed up last night reading about the Battle of Hastings, again, all because of an AL thread.

 

[Dickie Teenie]

Hi Thor, i've been living in Greece for the past two years and like to support the economy here, BK's got my money for now. I'm sure i won't be disappointed by what I've seen there.

 

[Capesofwrath]

Spoken like a true defender of empire. All I'll say is that every relationship has its ups and downs. You might be partially correct but even the grandest romances can lead to messy break ups!

Actually You have no idea what I think about the one time British Empire. But I bet I know more about it than you having spent several years of my childhood living in a then British colony in Africa. At the time I just accepted it as normal but later in my teens I came to understand what empires do, which is to enrich themselves at the expense of the colonised. True for de facto as well as de jure empires incidentally. This was one of the main reasons why the Scots elite who were pushing for the Act of Union wanted to join with England of course. The Empire was hardly going by then but was clearly a coming thing, and the Scots who are canny businessmen knew they would do very well out of it and did, dominating many areas of commerce with their large trading houses.

Incidentally the other more pressing reason why they wanted to join with England was to pull their financial nuts out of the fire when their own attempt at an American colony failed leaving the country near bankrupt.

I see where you're coming from with the whole Celtic revival thing. Yeah, it's true of course with the whole Iolo Morgannwg phenomenon and the invention of the Clan tartans and so on. Thing is, do people in these lands and from these culture self identify as being from Celtic nations? Yes. Does real Celtic history predate the revivals? Of course. Are there vibrant cultural structures such as political structures, languages, music and literature still extant? Yes! Does a modern conception of Celtic nationhood embrace and acknowledge these contradictions? Sure, just read 'When was Wales?' by Gwyn Alf Williams, it's all about how we've always been creating narratives around national identity since way before the 12th century! If you're seriously arguing that somehow Celtic identity was irreperably diluted by the Romans or whatever I can only retort that I live in the 21st century and that you should come on in, the water's fine!

I don't think you do. There really is no such thing as the Celtic nations. As I said before Celtic is really a language group and to a lesser extent a culture. No one knows how many Celts from their land by the Danube settled in the rest of Europe. But it can't have been many and their influence was much greater than their numbers because they were skilled metalworkers and took the secrets of smelting with them. Just like the Romans later whose numbers were relatively small in their Empire but who spread their language and culture out of all proportion to their numbers so did the Celts. Except it wasn't by conquest in their case but by knowledge. At one time Celtic languages were the most common in Europe but were superseded by conquest and immigration in later centuries and only survived on the western fringes.

So yes people can and do think of themselves as they wish and the history of countries is bent to political and nationalistic ends much more often than we like to think. But the peoples of Europe in the bronze age who spoke Celtic languages were no more actually Celts in ethnicity than an ethnic Scot or Welshman is today. That's why I pointed out that Alba, later Scotland expanded into England in the ninth century and absorbed all those Sassanachs who became lowland Scots, and who now make up about half of the country. They are not Celts in any way at all and never adopted Gaelic or other Celtic cultural identifiers.

The revival of interest in and idea of the Celts as an actual living people came very largely from the legend of Ossian which was also hugely influential in continental Europe and helped fuel the romantic age. It was no surprise that this literary concoction came after the Act of Union as a reaction to it and it was more influential even than Walter Scott later in establishing many of the 'narratives of national identity' of which you wrote.

I've always believed that nationalism, that eighteenth century invention has a lot to answer for along with all the tunes and bunting which came with it. I mean the nationalism of the nation state which people did not identify with until then. People used to think of themselves as natives of their area and their loyalty was to that and their folk and kin. Their attachment to the land they lived in was that of the patros, the land of their birth and of their fathers. But nationalism in time became confused with and in many cases took over from simple patriotism.

I feel an attachment as we all do for the land of my birth and the " happy highway where I went and cannot come again." But I feel little attachment for an artificial construct of a nation state to which I must pay allegiance. Or to paraphrase Seamus Heaney my passport is burgundy. But it can be pink and mauve for all I care.

 

[thor]

Hello DT; I've got a BK M-422 jacket and it's awesome! Perfect fit and very high quality craftsmanship. Good choice, if I can offer my 2 cents. Best of luck with the new jacket.

 

[theundeadkennedy]

Like a lot of these groups that split up, I guess one of them wants a solo career or something, it doesnt happen, so years later when we all want to watch our teen idols(Not necessarily the Rollers I may add) A member decides to re-form the group. Then another member does not want to join but feels the bands name was his as he was lead singer or whatever so starts his own band. We now may have: The Bay City Rollers, The Original Bay City Rollers and Les Mckeown's Bay City Rollers, all have members of the group in each one.
Now take the Platters, they have never been out of the limelight , though non of the original artistes that sang on their greatest hits are probably all dead, they are still going strong headed by? Your guess is as good as mine, the guy cleaning the toilets when 'Only You' was recorded
Easy to spot real 'Rollers' fans at a gig, all grey haired ladies around 50-55 waving tartan scarves.

Then I definitely cannot say for sure who I saw. Kind of tarnishes the memory a bit, but it was still a good time.

 

[rocketeer]

Then I definitely cannot say for sure who I saw. Kind of tarnishes the memory a bit, but it was still a good time.

And thats the main thing

 

[Highwaymanman]

Actually You have no idea what I think about the one time British Empire. But I bet I know more about it than you having spent several years of my childhood living in a then British colony in Africa. At the time I just accepted it as normal but later in my teens I came to understand what empires do, which is to enrich themselves at the expense of the colonised. True for de facto as well as de jure empires incidentally. This was one of the main reasons why the Scots elite who were pushing for the Act of Union wanted to join with England of course. The Empire was hardly going by then but was clearly a coming thing, and the Scots who are canny businessmen knew they would do very well out of it and did, dominating many areas of commerce with their large trading houses.

I don't know what you think, naturally, only that you spoke in a way which seemed to favor a critical examination of a constructed Celtic identity while giving something equally as constructed - the British Empire and of course the patriotism that sustains it - somewhat of a pass. Why the difference? It's interesting is all. I apologise though, I didn't mean to imply that I know your mind better than you yourself do.

There really is no such thing as the Celtic nations.

Yeah, I don't think the Irish, Scottish, Welsh and Manx members of the board will appreciate that. It's pretty rude.

As I said before Celtic is really a language group and to a lesser extent a culture. No one knows how many Celts from their land by the Danube settled in the rest of Europe. But it can't have been many and their influence was much greater than their numbers because they were skilled metalworkers and took the secrets of smelting with them. Just like the Romans later whose numbers were relatively small in their Empire but who spread their language and culture out of all proportion to their numbers so did the Celts. Except it wasn't by conquest in their case but by knowledge. At one time Celtic languages were the most common in Europe but were superseded by conquest and immigration in later centuries and only survived on the western fringes.

None of this is important in ascertaining whether Celtic nations exist at the current time. They plainly do.

So yes people can and do think of themselves as they wish and the history of countries is bent to political and nationalistic ends much more often than we like to think.

More than we like to think? Aren't the histories of countries bent to solely political and nationalistic ends? Isn't that what a country is? A political grouping organised by membership of a nation?

But the peoples of Europe in the bronze age who spoke Celtic languages were no more actually Celts in ethnicity than an ethnic Scot or Welshman is today. That's why I pointed out that Alba, later Scotland expanded into England in the ninth century and absorbed all those Sassanachs who became lowland Scots, and who now make up about half of the country. They are not Celts in any way at all and never adopted Gaelic or other Celtic cultural identifiers.

I suppose they'd be less so in some ways since they probably had zero conception of a wider culture beyond their family or tribal unit, zero conception of the nation state and indeed probably had a concept of personal identity as far removed from our modern sense of the term as would be for example that held by a lion or a chimpanzee. Even so, I don't quite know what your point is here since even though you're arguing against my contention that Celtic nations exist your doing so by referring to cultural organisers that have been around since the Bronze age and are still around today. Where I am from we have been 'the companions' for 1400 years. That is our name for ourselves. It's not about some bizarre purity challenge though. To bring it up to the modern day there's no reason why historical latecomers (for example Italian or Bangladeshi immigrants to the South Wales valleys) shouldn't feel included as being part of a modern Celtic nation. I like ice cream and curry as much as anyone although not always in that order.

The revival of interest in and idea of the Celts as an actual living people came very largely from the legend of Ossian which was also hugely influential in continental Europe and helped fuel the romantic age. It was no surprise that this literary concoction came after the Act of Union as a reaction to it and it was more influential even than Walter Scott later in establishing many of the 'narratives of national identity' of which you wrote.

This is fine, surely? Again, in the modern (or post modern) day one should feel able to have some agency over the historical narrative one chooses to identify with. If that jibes with the another 2.5 million people who live all around you and all feel the same then hey, that's a nation, that's political power. Dismissing this simply because of the frankly trivial observation that cultures have always told stories about themselves to themselves seems without purpose unless intended to mitigate the kind of insecurity that English people often seem to feel about their own particular histories. Again though, I don't want to claim that I know your motivations.

I've always believed that nationalism, that eighteenth century invention has a lot to answer for along with all the tunes and bunting which came with it. I mean the nationalism of the nation state which people did not identify with until then. People used to think of themselves as natives of their area and their loyalty was to that and their folk and kin. Their attachment to the land they lived in was that of the patros, the land of their birth and of their fathers. But nationalism in time became confused with and in many cases took over from simple patriotism.

Land of my fathers you say? Now we're getting somewhere!

I feel an attachment as we all do for the land of my birth and the " happy highway where I went and cannot come again." But I feel little attachment for an artificial construct of a nation state to which I must pay allegiance. Or to paraphrase Seamus Heaney my passport is burgundy. But it can be pink and mauve for all I care.

I hear ya, although all things being equal I would very much prefer mine to be red. In other news, the French are getting it tonight.

Getting it!!

 

[Sloan1874]

Actually You have no idea what I think about the one time British Empire. But I bet I know more about it than you having spent several years of my childhood living in a then British colony in Africa. At the time I just accepted it as normal but later in my teens I came to understand what empires do, which is to enrich themselves at the expense of the colonised. True for de facto as well as de jure empires incidentally. This was one of the main reasons why the Scots elite who were pushing for the Act of Union wanted to join with England of course. The Empire was hardly going by then but was clearly a coming thing, and the Scots who are canny businessmen knew they would do very well out of it and did, dominating many areas of commerce with their large trading houses.

Incidentally the other more pressing reason why they wanted to join with England was to pull their financial nuts out of the fire when their own attempt at an American colony failed leaving the country near bankrupt.




I don't think you do. There really is no such thing as the Celtic nations. As I said before Celtic is really a language group and to a lesser extent a culture. No one knows how many Celts from their land by the Danube settled in the rest of Europe. But it can't have been many and their influence was much greater than their numbers because they were skilled metalworkers and took the secrets of smelting with them. Just like the Romans later whose numbers were relatively small in their Empire but who spread their language and culture out of all proportion to their numbers so did the Celts. Except it wasn't by conquest in their case but by knowledge. At one time Celtic languages were the most common in Europe but were superseded by conquest and immigration in later centuries and only survived on the western fringes.

So yes people can and do think of themselves as they wish and the history of countries is bent to political and nationalistic ends much more often than we like to think. But the peoples of Europe in the bronze age who spoke Celtic languages were no more actually Celts in ethnicity than an ethnic Scot or Welshman is today. That's why I pointed out that Alba, later Scotland expanded into England in the ninth century and absorbed all those Sassanachs who became lowland Scots, and who now make up about half of the country. They are not Celts in any way at all and never adopted Gaelic or other Celtic cultural identifiers.

The revival of interest in and idea of the Celts as an actual living people came very largely from the legend of Ossian which was also hugely influential in continental Europe and helped fuel the romantic age. It was no surprise that this literary concoction came after the Act of Union as a reaction to it and it was more influential even than Walter Scott later in establishing many of the 'narratives of national identity' of which you wrote.

I've always believed that nationalism, that eighteenth century invention has a lot to answer for along with all the tunes and bunting which came with it. I mean the nationalism of the nation state which people did not identify with until then. People used to think of themselves as natives of their area and their loyalty was to that and their folk and kin. Their attachment to the land they lived in was that of the patros, the land of their birth and of their fathers. But nationalism in time became confused with and in many cases took over from simple patriotism.

I feel an attachment as we all do for the land of my birth and the " happy highway where I went and cannot come again." But I feel little attachment for an artificial construct of a nation state to which I must pay allegiance. Or to paraphrase Seamus Heaney my passport is burgundy. But it can be pink and mauve for all I care.

Brevity is the soul of wit.

 

[Edward]

Yeah, I don't think the Irish, Scottish, Welsh and Manx members of the board will appreciate that. It's pretty rude.

The Cornish will be mighty upset you've forgotten them....