A2s in your collection

[aswatland]

There seem to be fewer posts these days about original A2s. I know quite a few members own original A2s. Which ones do you own?

Here are the ones currently in my collection which I have photographed today.
Aero 40-3785-P-size 44

Aero W535ac21996-size 44

Rough Wear 42-1401-P-size 44

Rough Wear W535ac27752-size 44

Monarch W535ac23378-size 44

Cooper W535ac23381-size 44. The original leather patch is from the 367th Fighter squadron, but is not original to the jacket and was sewn on where previous patch had been.

Star W535ac28557-size 44

Poughkeepsie W535ac28560-size 44 no. 1

Poughkeepsie W535ac28560-size 44 no. 2

No-Name (Doniger) W535ac29971-size 42

 

[aswatland]

David D. Doniger & Co 42-21539-P-size 42

Spiewak 42-18776-P-size 42

No-Name (S.H. Knopf) 42-18246-P-size 44

Perry 42-16175-P-size 44

United sheeplined 42-18777-P-size 42

Karl Ort (made by Gorden & Ferguson) size 44

 

[Papa M]

Is that all Andrew?

I gather that you also have a fantastic collection of repros.

Mighty impressive!

 

[aswatland]

Is that all Andrew?

I gather that you also have a fantastic collection of repros.

Mighty impressive!

Yes, that's all the original A2s I own. I currenly only own four repro A2s and have recently placed an order for a GW Dubow which should arrive around Christmas time. I have owned most ELC and several GW repro A2s.

 

[Papa M]

Let me know when you want to sell something.

I own three repro A2s: Aero, Eastman and Buzz Rickson. I'm nearly ready to own an original.

 

[RLM]

Don't have any originals to show, and only one lower end, but still nice, US Authentic repro, but I certainly do admire your collection Andrew. They all appear to be in fantastic condition. I notice most are size 44. From the other service clothing I've seen from that period, I've gathered that 44 was rather large for men's clothing. Were they generally oversized to fit over other flight gear or do you just search high and low for 42/44 sizes?

 

[aswatland]

The average airman had a size 36 chest in the War. I have had to search quite hard over several years to find these larger originals.

 

[Navin323i]

Beautiful jackets, Andrew.

Of all the jackets that you posted pics of, which is your favorite?

I've noticed that some of the used military jackets I've come across on the internet has the name of the owner written on the jacket. For these original jackets you have, do you see the names of the original owners on them?

Navin

 

[aswatland]

Navin, I don't have a favourite original A2. Several have the original USAAF name strips on the chest and I have traced the vets. Most served in the CBI and a few in the 8th and 9th Air Forces.

 

[Edward]

The average airman had a size 36 chest in the War. I have had to search quite hard over several years to find these larger originals.

Hard to take in, but then I suppose in large part this can be put down to the fact that most of the airmen were little more than kids, (and kids born in the depression era, at that), so it's not really that surprising. When you say 36, Andrew, do you mean a Wartime 36 or a modern 36? (Like yourself, I think, I'm a modern 42, which equates to a 44 in pretty much anything pre late Fifties at least...).

Navin, I don't have a favourite original A2. Several have the original USAAF name strips on the chest and I have traced the vets. Most served in the CBI and a few in the 8th and 9th Air Forces.

This makes me wonder... have A2s from a specific theatre survived in significantly higher number in general? I'm sure I read somewhere that surviving wartime USN jackets are, comparatively, rarer due to the corroding effect of damp and salt air?

 

[aswatland]

Edward, I mean a 36" chest measurement.

The relatively few surviving naval flying jackets may in part be due to deterioration as you say, but there were far fewer naval flyers than those in the USAAF. Most USN planes were fighters or two-man fighter bombers, whilst the USAAF had a wide range of aircraft including thousands of bombers with a crew of 10 or 11 so there were far more A2s made than naval flying jackets made and issued.

As far as the proportions of A2s surviving from the different theatres is concerned this would involve a detailed research study to find the answer and one which few have the time to undertake.

 

[RLM]

The average airman had a size 36 chest in the War. I have had to search quite hard over several years to find these larger originals.

That's been pretty much what I've found. I have an Army wool uniform jacket that belonged to the previous owner of our house, complete with rank, unit and "ruptured duck" patches. They left quite a few items when they moved out and never returned to pick them up after I called. That jacket is a 36. My dad was in the army just after WWII and wore a 34. I couldn't get his uniform on by the time I was 12! My uncle's WWII AAF uniform is a size 38. From the pics I've seen of WWII AAF crews, I've never noticed anyone wearing an A-2 that looked overly big on them, but thought maybe they might "procure" an extra in a larger size to wear over other gear. Though I guess there was no need for that with the heavier jackets available.

 

[Navin323i]

Navin, I don't have a favourite original A2. Several have the original USAAF name strips on the chest and I have traced the vets. Most served in the CBI and a few in the 8th and 9th Air Forces.

That's neat you were able to trace the vets based on the chest name strips. Out of curiousity, how expensive are original A2's to purchase? I would assume they're super expensive and worth quite a bit of money in the collector market.

 

[aswatland]

That's neat you were able to trace the vets based on the chest name strips. Out of curiousity, how expensive are original A2's to purchase? I would assume they're super expensive and worth quite a bit of money in the collector market.

Some jackets also have the vet's enlistment number written into the lining.

As far as price is concerned there is enormous variation depending on condition, size, rarety of the contract, provenance, whether the jacket is painted etc....You can pay from £350 to over £2,000 for an original A2.

 

[jon z]

Why?

Andrew

I watch your A2 posts with interest. You obviously have a passion, one that I admire you for for indulging in so committedly. I'm intrigued, for no other reason than my own inquisitiveness, to know your reason for acquiring these jackets. Are they pieces in a collection to be preserved in their current condition or are they part of your wardrobe, ie articles of clothing which you use therefore adding wear (however minimal) to them?

It has to be said this is a truly remarkable collection, both in quantity & quality. You have my greatest respect for achieving this.

John

 

[aswatland]

John, as a historian I have been facinated by original flight jackets for years. The appeal of the A2 has been discussed several times before on the forum. For me it is the iconic appearance of the A2 that appeals coupled with the provenance of many of the jackets. I am also interested in the details of each contract.

I wear some of these originals with care to air shows for example, but not as daily wearers for obvious reasons.

 

[Cooperson]

That's a very impressive jacket collection Andrew, they look in great condition too - looks like the rest of it are just playing at it

Could I ask how long it's taken you to acquire them?

 

[aswatland]

That's a very impressive jacket collection Andrew, they look in great condition too - looks like the rest of it are just playing at it

Could I ask how long it's taken you to acquire them?

Thanks. I have acquired them gradually over the last 5 years.

 

[Edward]

Edward, I mean a 36" chest measurement.

The relatively few surviving naval flying jackets may in part be due to deterioration as you say, but there were far fewer naval flyers than those in the USAAF. Most USN planes were fighters or two-man fighter bombers, whilst the USAAF had a wide range of aircraft including thousands of bombers with a crew of 10 or 11 so there were far more A2s made than naval flying jackets made and issued.

Good point, I hadn't thought aboutg initial issue numbers, but that would obviously have an impact on survivial rates; I know that low issue numbers to begin with is the reason original B10s and B15-Cs (particularly, I expect, with the mouton collar still intact) are so rare...

As far as the proportions of A2s surviving from the different theatres is concerned this would involve a detailed research study to find the answer and one which few have the time to undertake.

True, yes! lol Eventual retirement project, maybe?

but thought maybe they might "procure" an extra in a larger size to wear over other gear.

I've heard talk of A2s being worn under a B3, though I don't know whether this actually happened as I've only seen it on websites selling, well, both styles of jacket....

As far as price is concerned there is enormous variation depending on condition, size, rarety of the contract, provenance, whether the jacket is painted etc....You can pay from £350 to over £2,000 for an original A2.

I presume it's the converse of repros, with painted originals being worth more - especially if a specific plane/crew can be identified? Or would an unmolested example in unworn condition be the Holy Grail for the collector? I suppose the answer to that could vary enormously based on the individual collector and their reason for being interested in A2s to begin with...

 

[aswatland]

Edward, Generally painted original A2s fetch more than plain ones. The quality of the painting and the subject itself help to determine the value. Paintings of scantily clag women are much sought after!

An A2 belonging to an ace will fetch a lot of money as will an early one from the 1930s as they are so rare these days due to the low number being issued to the USAC. Early Werber and Aero contracts were for hundreds of jackets rather than the tens of thousands in the of the large wartime contracts awarded to Rough Wear, Dubow and Aero for example.

I have seen pictures of an A2 being worn beneath a B-3 but can't locate them at the moment.