A2 collar question

[xmr]

Hi,

I just got my Aero Bronco A2 (after only 1 1/2 months!) which looks, fits and feels great, I love it already. I just have a question regarding the collar. One collar sits about 1-1,5cm lower that the right one.




I do not know a lot about A2s, is this normal, will it be less apparent when the leather gets softer or is it just wrong?

Cheers!

 

[Bucket]

Have you measured each collar? Is the overall length of the right collar longer or is it just how the leather creased which makes the right hang lower?

 

[aswatland]

The mis-matched length of the collar points is not something to worry about. You see this feature on many originals. It just adds to the authenticity of this Bronco repro. I have an original Bronco where one collar snap is an inch higher than the other.

 

[xmr]

Wow, that's one misplaced snap lol!

Ken from Aero just suggested some hot water treatment to shape it. Could someone explain what to do? I kniw badically what to do but I do not want to do anything wrong...

 

[aswatland]

Yes it is, but it adds to the character of the jacket IMO.

 

[ButteMT61]

I wondered if some repros did this intentionally? I've seen a lot of originals in museums and on VLJ - mostly Andrew's - and some of them have this "feature". Seemed to be a sign of character and tells you a human made it, or so I think. Just like the not 100% perfect stitching, etc. on my bespoke jackets. I like it. As mentioned before, I can look at a $150 Malle jacket and see perfect assembly line stitching, etc. My Aero, GW, etc all are exceptional with tiny bits that make me appreciate a human(s) made them.
I think only the current POTUS actually buttons down his A-2. Not many others do...

 

[Fanch]

I wondered if some repros did this intentionally? I've seen a lot of originals in museums and on VLJ - mostly Andrew's - and some of them have this "feature". Seemed to be a sign of character and tells you a human made it, or so I think. Just like the not 100% perfect stitching, etc. on my bespoke jackets. I like it. As mentioned before, I can look at a $150 Mall jacket and see perfect assembly line stitching, etc. My Aero, GW, etc all are exceptional with tiny bits that make me appreciate a human(s) made them.
I think only the current POTUS actually buttons down his A-2. Not many others do...

Butte, the point that you just made is that jackets made by human hands represent true art, whereas "assembly line" jackets are not. This is true for almost anything that is made, including hand made jackets, western cowboy boots, shoes, etc. In any case, I wouldn't give a possibly asymmetric collar a second thought.

 

[ButteMT61]

Butte, the point that you just made is that jackets made by human hands represent true art, whereas "assembly line" jackets are not. This is true for almost anything that is made, including hand made jackets, western cowboy boots, shoes, etc. In any case, I wouldn't give a possibly asymmetric collar a second thought.

Indeed. Look at western boots with a leather or stitched design in them. $100 boots are symmetrical. $1000 boots made by hand, not. Gimme those pal. Every time.

 

[Fletch]

My Good Wear United test jacket has goofy snaps that buckle the collar when snapped. Never thought it might be a feature and not a bug!

 

[saucerfiend]

I'm not sure what you fella's are talkin' about. This imperfection thing. I own 6 GW jackets at the present moment and not one is short of perfection. Particularly in stitching and overall workmanship. I've also owned many other GW A-2's that I've sold but only for fit reasons as they weren't made specifically made for me. But the workmanship was second to none. For my money GW shouldn't be added to this imperfection deal. And yes, I've had Eastman, Aero, BK, AND Buz Rickson. All of which contained many imperfections. Not only in workmanship but materials as well, {particularly Buz Rickson}. The only manufacturer of flight jackets that compares with GW is "The Few", from which I bought my new B-2, which is beautiful and flawlessly made.
If I received that Bronco with the collar like that, it would go directly back. In fact, last year, if anyone remembers, I had the same collar issue with a highwayman. Not only was the collar points off, the jacket was no where near my specified measurements. After a conversation with Will at Aero, in which I expressed my discontent with his product. I pressed him to replace it immediately. Sure enough, the replacement was made and shipped within 1 week. Again, in my book, imperfections have no place when your paying that kind of money. I've dealt with the others and I'm done with them. Through experience, my money is on GW and "The Few". Please keep in mind these are my own experiences.


Brian

 

[ButteMT61]

Brian, I don't doubt your experiences. Keep in mind when I say "imperfection" I'm taking about something like this. I lay may jacket flat out. If I put a ruler down the stitch line of the zipper, it won't be 100% linear. Same with sleeves. That's not a flaw. As we have pointed out, merely a sign of an item crafted by hand. Look at a hand-painted sign as opposed to one done in a modern sticker/template factory. Don't compare in "character". The letters on the hand painted version are beautifully imperfect. I see my jackets the same way - all of them from all the makers we discuss here. My Ventura is missing the "Genuine Horsehide“ label for which JC apologized and of course offered to remedy for me. I happened to say I'm happy with it. I like a bit of a sign that Robbie Robot didn't make it. In fact, almost every jacket what was made otherwise is now gone.I'm extremely OCD. My "imperfections" are nothing to normal people.

 

[Brettafett]

I had the same issue. Sent it back. For the money I am paying, I would prefer not to have a slightly skew collar etc. Could this possibly be a pattern issue. ?
And this sucks cause it cost $$$ to return a jacket from out of the country, let alone the possibility of a confrontation of asking for a replacement or refund. Doesn't feel good and detracts from the excitement and enthusiasm of the new jacket.

If there are imperfections in the details of some originals, thats fine. That, to me, is something different. You are buying a war time collectible with all its character and defects.
But... again... for me, if I am paying top dollar for a premium maker jacket, that I have waited months for, then I would prefer it to be symmetrical with all the correct and agreed upon details.
I guess it depends on the imperfection... If its obvious and noticeable... like a skew, disproportionate collar, loose stitching etc, its gotta go back.
If its not, like on the label, or some small stitching error, then maybe thats ok.

I had a premium maker A-2 a while back that I liked a lot. Something was off with the arms though. Only after a few months of wear, did I think to measure them, get this... one arm was a touch over 0.5 inches longer than the other... This would have been returned, but obv after a few months... not. This bugged me for ages and has resulted in me double checking my jackets now.

I don't think its ok for these issues to pass quality control for the likes of GW, ELC or Aero (or BK), not at those prices.

I also don't think its ok for a premium maker to say its authentic to receive a jacket that has very messy stitching or small nics or stitch holes in the leather (this also happened a few years back).

That all said, sometimes mistaken happen. People sneeze and 'Bam', oops.. Sometimes people are pressured to get the stuff out etc...

In an ideal world, one should be able to return any jacket, for whatever reason for a replacement or refund, no questions asked (as long as its in the same condition of course)... I don't think any of the above do this.

 

[Sloan1874]

Brian, I don't doubt your experiences. Keep in mind when I say "imperfection" I'm taking about something like this. I lay may jacket flat out. If I put a ruler down the stitch line of the zipper, it won't be 100% linear. Same with sleeves. That's not a flaw. As we have pointed out, merely a sign of an item crafted by hand. Look at a hand-painted sign as opposed to one done in a modern sticker/template factory. Don't compare in "character". The letters on the hand painted version are beautifully imperfect. I see my jackets the same way - all of them from all the makers we discuss here. My Ventura is missing the "Genuine Horsehide“ label for which JC apologized and of course offered to remedy for me. I happened to say I'm happy with it. I like a bit of a sign that Robbie Robot didn't make it. In fact, almost every jacket what was made otherwise is now gone.I'm extremely OCD. My "imperfections" are nothing to normal people.

Couldn't agree more. There's a small of stitching on the bottom hem on my Dustbwl where it's slightly off line. It stops, takes a 'right turn' for a couple of stitches, then goes on its merry way again. It just makes me smile when I notice it because I can just about hear the swearing that accompanied the little detour, and it just adds to its character. That said, there is a line where character-giving flaw crosses over into irritating mistake, and everybody's line is in a different place.

 

[ButteMT61]

Couldn't agree more. There's a small of stitching on the bottom hem on my Dustbwl where it's slightly off line. It stops, takes a 'right turn' for a couple of stitches, then goes on its merry way again. It just makes me smile when I notice it because I can just about hear the swearing that accompanied the little detour, and it just adds to its character. That said, there is a line where character-giving flaw crosses over into irritating mistake, and everybody's line is in a different place.

Absolutely. But I'd love to see these 100% perfect jackets folks speak of here. Must say, the "plane" as you say is everyone's personal tolerance. There's also some that are never satisfied - I know of some makers who won't make a jacket for certain people. THAT is over the top! If you get sent packing for being a PITA, it's time to do some self-reflecting...

 

[Sloan1874]

I can just imagine: "I'm sorry, but I happen to know the original Buco had 10 stitches per inch, and there are sections on the one you sent me that are nine and 11. Is it possible to have this fixed?"

 

[Dr H]

I think I hear more about stitch counting from people here taking the piss than anywhere else...go figure as the Americans would say...

 

[Sloan1874]

It's an easy-to-reach-for cliche. I was just teasing, no harm meant.

 

[Dr H]

None taken...

 

[ButteMT61]

None taken...

Obviously.

 

[Fanch]

Sloan, I think that some members of this forum on your side of the Pond fail to appreciate your rappier wit.