Is it HH?

[Thranmir]

I've been scrolling through cheaper jackets trying to learn what distinguishes good from bad by comparing jackets from TFL to the ones on the market.

I came across this one and liked the style, spotted the YKK zippers, I *think* the stitching looks neat to my eye?

Leather I'm struggling more with, both identifying the hide and what constitutes a good quality version of that hide.

Am I wrong in thinking this is horse hide? I've been looking for the vertical/diagonal striations, the patina and general finish and this looks similar to other HH's I've seen. I'm assuming you can't be 100% accurate with online pics but would love to know if I'm on the right path with my logic

 

[RDS]

I've been scrolling through cheaper jackets trying to learn what distinguishes good from bad by comparing jackets from TFL to the ones on the market.

I came across this one and liked the style, spotted the YKK zippers, I *think* the stitching looks neat to my eye?

Leather I'm struggling more with, both identifying the hide and what constitutes a good quality version of that hide.

Am I wrong in thinking this is horse hide? I've been looking for the vertical/diagonal striations, the patina and general finish and this looks similar to other HH's I've seen. I'm assuming you can't be 100% accurate with online pics but would love to know if I'm on the right path with my logic

To be honest unless there’s a manufacturers label saying otherwise it could be either HH or SH.
However, as Blazing Saddles seems to be a fairly unknown and generic label and SH is more readily available and generally cheaper than horsehide think it could well be steerhide.

Having said all that because of the similarities it would sometimes take a DNA test to really know for sure which hide is which.

 

[barnabus]

The only people who seem able to know for sure if an unlabeled jacket is horsehide are people selling the jacket, who want to be able to sell it as a horsehide jacket.

 

[Jon Crow]

To be honest unless there’s a manufacturers label saying otherwise it could be either HH or SH.
However, as Blazing Saddles seems to be a fairly unknown and generic label and SH is more readily available and generally cheaper than horsehide think it could well be steerhide.

Having said all that because of the similarities it would sometimes take a DNA test to really know for sure which hide is which.

And those bell shaped ykk zipper pulls, even Avirex uses them now, never heard of the label except once, Blazing Saddles London, it looks ok, it is what it is, wear it and enjoy it

 

[Thranmir]

Thanks for the tips everyone, I thought that might be the case. Rather than trying to memorise all the different makers known for decent quality outside of the big dogs, I'm trying to learn how to recognise it myself but I guess becoming the hide whisperer was a little ambitious haha.

 

[Jon Crow]

The only people who seem able to know for sure if an unlabeled jacket is horsehide are people selling the jacket, who want to be able to sell it as a horsehide jacket.

Exactly, like the Italians also tend to favour goat, ie their famous Varstarlino jackets, the Germans tend to make a lot in Lamm Nappa, I guess if stated on a label it would be Horsehide

 

[Bfd70]

Thanks for the tips everyone, I thought that might be the case. Rather than trying to memorise all the different makers known for decent quality outside of the big dogs, I'm trying to learn how to recognise it myself but I guess becoming the hide whisperer was a little ambitious haha.

You can’t always tell for certain even with the jacket in hand.

 

[Hide'n'seek]

Highly unlikely to be horsehide. If a company has gone to the effort and cost of sourcing Horsehide which is not readily available and only available through a handful of tanneries, you can bet your bottom dollar that they will shout about it and fit a content label declaring it's Horsehide

 

[Jon Crow]

Highly unlikely to be horsehide. If a company has gone to the effort and cost of sourcing Horsehide which is not readily available and only available through a handful of tanneries, you can bet your bottom dollar that they will shout about it and fit a content label declaring it's Horsehide

Yep, the Japanese when they make theirs specifically state premium Horsehide

 

[Hide'n'seek]

Yep, the Japanese when they make theirs specifically state premium Horsehide

any maker anywhere in the world is going to let you know with a label

 

[Edward]

Highly unlikely to be horsehide. If a company has gone to the effort and cost of sourcing Horsehide which is not readily available and only available through a handful of tanneries, you can bet your bottom dollar that they will shout about it and fit a content label declaring it's Horsehide

This - all the this, in the world. It's what I came here to say, but here you have it from the typing fingers of a serious authority in the leather jacket world rather than me!

I think too that outside of enthusiasts like us, most people don't really think about what the leather is, as long as they like the look of it.

The pattern reminds me very much of the sort of jackets I could see on sale in our local stores in the 90s. Indeed, my first, non-lancer MC style leather jacket was something like this in black. In those days you would occasionally see something labelled "Naked Cowhide" if it was really fancy, but most jackets I remember handling in the fashion market were just labelled "Real leather". Even dedicated bike jackets I recall being more concerned with telegraphing point of geographical manufacture rather than species of components.

I like the YKKS on the one in the OP, actually. YKK zips have always been solid and reliable in my experience, though a lot of their more commonly use pullers can look out of place on a jacket aspiring to a more vintage style. These are much nicer than the more regular, squared off types.

 

[Jon Crow]

This - all the this, in the world. It's what I came here to say, but here you have it from the typing fingers of a serious authority in the leather jacket world rather than me!

I think too that outside of enthusiasts like us, most people don't really think about what the leather is, as long as they like the look of it.

The pattern reminds me very much of the sort of jackets I could see on sale in our local stores in the 90s. Indeed, my first, non-lancer MC style leather jacket was something like this in black. In those days you would occasionally see something labelled "Naked Cowhide" if it was really fancy, but most jackets I remember handling in the fashion market were just labelled "Real leather". Even dedicated bike jackets I recall being more concerned with telegraphing point of geographical manufacture rather than species of components.

I like the YKKS on the one in the OP, actually. YKK zips have always been solid and reliable in my experience, though a lot of their more commonly use pullers can look out of place on a jacket aspiring to a more vintage style. These are much nicer than the more regular, squared off types.

Me too Edward, even though the jackets in the 80s and 90s looked good, they said real leather, verre pelle ( Italian ) echt leader ( German ) 90% of mops, members of public on the street couldn't care anyway, they buy real leather or pu. I like those authentic looking ykk also, Avirex also use them and some Chinese companies have started to use them on some of their more vintage looking jackets,.

 

[Thranmir]

That all makes sense, I understood HH is generally more expensive but I didn't realise it was as exclusive in its use at it is. When scrolling through Vintage jackets I typically see cowhide or lamb Nappa so I was excited to see a hide that looks considerably different than what I'd seen before and the mind ran away with it.

Upon consideration this actually looks a lot like the leather on my last Sam Walker barnstormer, which I really didn't like so I'm glad I consulted here first and didn't buy it

 

[Monitor]

Being a gargantuan marketing machine, the internet is lying to you. I can see you have already been mislead to draw all the wrong conclusions but thankfully, you got us and we do not lie.

I came across this one and liked the style, spotted the YKK zippers, I *think* the stitching looks neat to my eye?

The stitching is perfectly neat on this jacket because stitching is always perfectly neat on most leather jackets out there. In fact, you'd be hard pressed to find a leather jacket with bad stitching.

This, most likely, is or was made by some Pakistani or India based brand, active in the 1990s or early 2Ks and the fact that you are looking at their jacket some thirty years later, tells you how good their work actually was.

Stitching is always neat and anyone telling you you will find good stitching only on omega-premium brands is lying to you through their teeth.

Am I wrong in thinking this is horse hide?

Yes, you are wrong in thinking this is horsehide. Same as you would be wrong in assuming that it is not a horsehide.

That it could be one or another is your best guess but even that is uncertain.

I've been looking for the vertical/diagonal striations, the patina and general finish and this looks similar to other HH's I've seen. I'm assuming you can't be 100% accurate with online pics but would love to know if I'm on the right path with my logic

No, you are not on the right path because there is no path. If there is no label with specific declaration of the origin of leather attached to the jacket, you cannot know.

Also, horse leather doesn't really look the way you think it does. What you are actually comparing is tanning.

 

[RDS]

Upon consideration this actually looks a lot like the leather on my last Sam Walker barnstormer, which I really didn't like.

I’m not surprised. I’ve only ever seen one Sam Walker jacket, their direct copy of a Highwayman, and the leather had all the look and feel of the type of rubber you’d find on a wetsuit.

 

[Thranmir]

I’m not surprised. I’ve only ever seen one Sam Walker jacket, their direct copy of a Highwayman, and the leather had all the look and feel of the type of rubber you’d find on a wetsuit.

I'm not educated enough to know what if anything was wrong with it. I had a Vanson that was extremely thick and heavy, this one was thick and heavy but... Sticky almost. Finger dragged along it like it had a waxy film, the leather felt like it could snap or tear if I bent it. I think rubber explains it well, I felt like I was wearing a tyre.

 

[Jon Crow]

I'm not educated enough to know what if anything was wrong with it. I had a Vanson that was extremely thick and heavy, this one was thick and heavy but... Sticky almost. Finger dragged along it like it had a waxy film, the leather felt like it could snap or tear if I bent it. I think rubber explains it well, I felt like I was wearing a tyre.

Michelin Man

 

[Edward]

I’m not surprised. I’ve only ever seen one Sam Walker jacket, their direct copy of a Highwayman, and the leather had all the look and feel of the type of rubber you’d find on a wetsuit.

I've never handled one, but I could scream at the number of times I see them on eBay listed as being "made by Aero" - which is, of course, untrue. SW had been an Aero stockist, and then one season they suddenly stopped stocking Aero, and instead carried a line of cheaper jackets of their own, all knock-offs of Aero designs. The irritating thing is that when you see them in photos (and to be fair, as I say, I've never handled one), they look like decent enough but clearly much cheaper jackets than Aeros.

I used to make a point of reporting the half dozen or so jackets by other makers claimed to be "Aero" on eBay, but sadly eBay have now given control of those reports to AI, which never finds even the most obvious breaches of eBay rules (up to and including open Germany's WWII-era leadership/NeoGermany's WWII-era leadership propaganda materials in my direct experience) problematic. Maybe (given the inevitable impact of the censorbot on what I've just written) we should point it eBay's way to show them a thing or two.

 

[Thranmir]

I've never handled one, but I could scream at the number of times I see them on eBay listed as being "made by Aero" - which is, of course, untrue. SW had been an Aero stockist, and then one season they suddenly stopped stocking Aero, and instead carried a line of cheaper jackets of their own, all knock-offs of Aero designs. The irritating thing is that when you see them in photos (and to be fair, as I say, I've never handled one), they look like decent enough but clearly much cheaper jackets than Aeros.

I used to make a point of reporting the half dozen or so jackets by other makers claimed to be "Aero" on eBay, but sadly eBay have now given control of those reports to AI, which never finds even the most obvious breaches of eBay rules (up to and including open Germany's WWII-era leadership/NeoGermany's WWII-era leadership propaganda materials in my direct experience) problematic. Maybe (given the inevitable impact of the censorbot on what I've just written) we should point it eBay's way to show them a thing or two.

I feel I walked a middle ground when I sold my Sam walker. I try my best to do my research on anything I sell, so I knew the history of SW. However, I wanted to get snapped up in the search terms by people looking for aero's as a cheaper alternative.

I said "based on aero barnstormer" in the hopes I gain the benefit of the brand association without misleading people on the quality. I have wondered how people would react to that, is it still shady? I won't be buying another one so I don't mind self reporting.

 

[morrison2951]

No label, likely not HH.