Pondering the giant quality disparities of the Schott 184SM (and the assorted others)

[Bluechel]

I just bought off e bay this size 48. Great Jacket has original zip in/out Liner. Style 502 only made in year 1986.

AWESOME! Wasn't the 46 I just sent you also a 502?

 

[PeterRocco]

AWESOME! Wasn't the 46 I just sent you also a 502?

So the only thing is I have zippers on the side you have buckles. Have to check one of the pockets will have a tag telling the style number.

 

[PeterRocco]

I've got a couple versions of these. Amazing jackets especially for the money ($100-200 range). I'd say even bigger bang for buck than the usual Brooks/Kehoe/Fidelity, etc. but that's my subjective take.

The difference in the two I have is one is clearly a 100 series Schott leather, i.e. naked, full aniline, etc. and the other is more of a 600 series leather, more top coat heavy but will evolve to something really nice with time. So some of what you're talking about is the naming convention because I believe the name tag in the liner generically calls them all 184 SM or something like that, but the tag in the pocket (when they have them) may be categorized as its own series (100 vs 600 series leather, zip out fury liner, detachable fuzzy collar, bi swing no bi swing, etc.).

The 100 series is going to feel "best" to most every day people. But there's pros/cons just like anything else.

First comparison that jumped in my head is Vanson "comp" weight. Lots of variations over the years and some strong opinions about which are best, etc. But the model doesn't change i.e. an Enfield is clearly an Enfield. Whereas one of these so called 184sm have a wide range of looks and options. And in Vanson's case, it's more about changing out tanneries and probably the reason why the leather changes. With Schott, I think it's more about 100 vs 600 leather.

Like all things Schott, I think at new prices they're probably not worth it (but that's true for all jacket makers in my opinion). But like most Schotts, in the secondary market, Schotts hit above weight, again in my opinion, and that's for either the 100 or 600 series leather. You can regularly get $800-1000 price new Perfectos for $300-500. And on these A2 style jacket, they're commonly found in the $100 and even sub $100 range, albeit, pretty beat up.

Not trying to turn this into a look what I got for sale takeover, but I have some notes about the 2 jackets and leathers styles in my classified posts. I wouldn't say one is better than the other, but they're certainly different to the touch and how they evolve.

Edit: The 164 size 42 is 100 series leather. Very soft, feels "best", but you can see the con of it having picked up salt stains. The undetermined model size 38/40 is 600 series leather. Not as soft, but tough as nails and has it's own evolution.


https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/schott-flight-jacket-2-size-38-40.107428/#post-2925669
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/schott-flight-jacket-164sm-size-42.107427/#post-2925668

What a great review. Thank You for posting.

 

[Bluechel]

What a great review. Thank You for posting.

Ah, I finally get what you mean when you use the 100 versus 600 duh! Yes, the 184SM naked cowhide is still the one you can find on the 'Bay for under $200 and have it end up being three or four years old! For a jacket that's as beautiful and as nice looking and flexible, that keeps you warm, it's hard to beat. I call the bomber aviators the "gateway drug" to becoming a leather jacket fanatic.

 

[Franz]

Hello, this is my second 184 SM. The first one has been with me for almost 40 years.
The serial number is 1011708024.
It was only used to fly ultralights as a hobby and is in very good condition.
It came without fur collar and zipper lining. I am curious about why it has the zipper but also snaps and 3 little loops on each side on the inside. The zipper I know. The buttons could fit a fly vest. But what are the loops for? I have never seen this combination. The leather is very soft. A little less so after treatment. It’s a size 46. The seller said he bought it 15-20 years ago.

 

[Franz]

I would be thankful for more infos on the above.
I travelled the world in all climates with the other one. It was good for adventures. Although a size too small it’s still in fairly good shape although it could do with new pockets and the
knitted parts need to be changed.
As opposed to my old 184 this one is more of a sunday city dress jacket. This one would have run off crying long ago.
I think that I’ll sell it again.

 

[Bluechel]

I would be thankful for more infos on the above.
I travelled the world in all climates with the other one. It was good for adventures. Although a size too small it’s still in fairly good shape although it could do with new pockets and the
knitted parts need to be changed.
As opposed to my old 184 this one is more of a sunday city dress jacket. This one would have run off crying long ago.
I think that I’ll sell it again.

No idea on the loops, you can find both the faux fur collar and easily have Jerri at SCHOTT GET YOU THE NEW ZIP IN LINER...sorry hit caps lock. I'm going into the garage to look and see if these are extra snaps. The zipper style says "newer" because it's the nylon one I'm pretty sure

 

[Bluechel]

What did you use on the naked cowhide?

 

[Franz]

No idea on the loops, you can find both the faux fur collar and easily have Jerri at SCHOTT GET YOU THE NEW ZIP IN LINER...sorry hit caps lock. I'm going into the garage to look and see if these are extra snaps. The zipper style says "newer" because it's the nylon one I'm pretty sure

Thank you. Two different types of snaps. 5 snaps on the collar.

 

[Franz]

What did you use on the naked cowhide?

I make my own balm: Bees wax carnauba wax linseed oil and turpentine. That is the basic recipe. To make the balm I then re-melt it and add some wool wax, shea butter and some oil.
I then heat the leather with a Blowdryer after applying the balm and I use alcohol to remove any fatty residue on the surface.
The melting process is done in a water bath.

 

[Franz]

This is my „old“ 184 bought end 80‘s. The buttons used to be black. I still have the zip-in faux fur liner and the real fur collar.

 

[Bluechel]

Wow. I’d like to see how that “finishes”. Tried and tested the previous 40?

 

[Bluechel]

I never hit “send”…this was yesterday. Would love to see the collar, wasn’t aware Schott offered a mouton for these A2 type jackets. Haven’t seen that label either!

 

[Bluechel]

Looks to me like you didn’t need a new one. Trying to imagine what previous owner used those snaps and loops for, guessing some kind of retro non original liner?

 

[Franz]

Here you go.

 

[Franz]

The former owner said he bought in an Army shop on a US-Air base here in Germany. It is really strange, three loops on the left but only two on the right and they were not added later. And the Inside snap buttons: 4 female on the inside left but 3 females and one male (2nd from top) male.

 

[Bluechel]

But we know it’s a 184SM because of the white tag…weird, I must solve this. But the snaps WERE added I assume?

 

[Franz]

But we know it’s a 184SM because of the white tag…weird, I must solve this. But the snaps WERE added I assume?

Nope, behind the lining.

 

[Franz]

The seller finally found the zip-in lining and the fur collar. I suppose i‘ll receive them after christmas.

 

[Bluechel]

The seller finally found the zip-in lining and the fur collar. I suppose i‘ll receive them after christmas.

Wow! That's the rarest outcome I've ever heard about. Please tell me how those additional snaps were used?