Questions About the United States Navy Peacoat

[responsible D]

I'm curious to see your images. I've sewn countless buttons but never on my Peacoat (5 y/o Sterlingwear Authentic) because they don't sew through the lining. I love the jacket but every year the two most used buttons unravel. I drive by the Sterlingwear factory/retail store often on the way to the airport so every year, I have them fix it. Within a month or so, they start to unravel again. There has to be a way to sew them so they stand up to regular use.

The process I used is similar to what's shown at the link that Peacoat provided, but with a couple of modifications. I'll try to post some images this weekend.

 

[ZenEdge]

I checked my coats this morning. Other than two post 1979 coats (melton) the latest year I have is 1972. It is labeled as "100% wool, Kersey." So, I can't answer your question about '73 and beyond.

I had my first kersey peacoat experience today. I purchased a kersey peacoat in the hard to find size 40L, manufactured by Pembroke in 1968. The seller advertised it as mint in perfect condition. What I received was quite different. The label on the inside of the coat clearly read 40L, and the kersey wool was a midnight blue with a nice velvety finish. Unfortunately, the coat was riddled with moth tracks, the lining was ripped in places, and there was excessive wear on the sleeves and collar. It was big on me, almost like a 42L, and I decided to return it. I see coats come available in a size 40L from the seventies with the silver metal buttons manufactured by Vil-Mil. Do you know if those are made of kersey wool? The labels do not say one way or the other.

 

[responsible D]

Here's an album I created showing how I re-sewed the buttons on my peacoat.

https://imgur.com/a/sarL454

 

[responsible D]

Here's another album showing extending the sleeve length.

https://imgur.com/a/5nQa4Lh

 

[Peacoat]

I had my first kersey peacoat experience today. I purchased a kersey peacoat in the hard to find size 40L, manufactured by Pembroke in 1968. The seller advertised it as mint in perfect condition. What I received was quite different. The label on the inside of the coat clearly read 40L, and the kersey wool was a midnight blue with a nice velvety finish. Unfortunately, the coat was riddled with moth tracks, the lining was ripped in places, and there was excessive wear on the sleeves and collar. It was big on me, almost like a 42L, and I decided to return it. I see coats come available in a size 40L from the seventies with the silver metal buttons manufactured by Vil-Mil. Do you know if those are made of kersey wool? The labels do not say one way or the other.

Sorry you had a bad experience with a seller. Unfortunately that isn't uncommon on eBay.

If you matched your measured chest size to the p2p measurement of the coat, using my guide, you should have known how the coat would fit. I am really surprised you were able to find a long size in a 1968 version.

As I have said before, and said many times in this thread, all of the Melton coats that I have seen manufactured prior to 1980 have been labeled as such. Those not labeled as Melton have always been Kersey.

The pewter button was introduced in 1974 and was mandatory by July 1, 1976. It continued in use until 1984 when the fouled anchor again was placed in service.

Navy peacoats post 1979 are Melton wool. Navy peacoats pre 1980 are Kersey unless so labeled. The type of button used on the coat is not a factor in whether the coat is Melton or Kersey.

There may be exceptions to the pre 1980 rule, but I haven't come across them.

 

[ZenEdge]

Sorry you had a bad experience with a seller. Unfortunately that isn't uncommon on eBay.

If you matched your measured chest size to the p2p measurement of the coat, using my guide, you should have known how the coat would fit. I am really surprised you were able to find a long size in a 1968 version.

As I have said before, and said many times in this thread, all of the Melton coats that I have seen manufactured prior to 1980 have been labeled as such. Those not labeled as Melton have always been Kersey.

The pewter button was introduced in 1974 and was mandatory by July 1, 1976. It continued in use until 1984 when the fouled anchor again was placed in service.

Navy peacoats post 1979 are Melton wool. Navy peacoats pre 1980 are Kersey unless so labeled. The type of button used on the coat is not a factor in whether the coat is Melton or Kersey.

There may be exceptions to the pre 1980 rule, but I haven't come across them.

Well, here's the strange thing, Peacoat. The outside measurements on the Kersey peacoat are the same as the outside measurements on my Melton peacoat. The difference between the two coats is the insulated lining on the Melton peacoat. It must give the coat body and make it look more structured (or "sharp" as my girlfriend likes to say). But the Kersey peacoat hangs over my body like a sack. I may have to downsize in the Kersey.

 

[Tec]

Received that 1961 peacoat I posted about the other day, today, and I'm already in love with it. The coat is nearly flawless, although it does have a couple of moth munches which are very hard to see, which I'm completely fine with. It's still stiff and seems it was hardly ever worn.

The only other minor problems I found was that

1. Some of the stitching behind the back of the collar have come off (doesn't seem to ruin the integrity of that section, but something I'd like to get re-stitched)
2. The buttons were sewn through the lining and pockets. I don't mind it so much with the hand warmers; if I didn't know any better, I'd have thought it was intentional because my thumbs go above the button stitching while the rest of my hand go beneath: it sort of cradles my hands inside of the pockets.

And not a problem with the coat, but I'm normally a 40S, so I'll need to get the sleeves taken up about an inch, maybe 1.5" (I'll make sure I actually confirm before getting it altered).

While I'm here, anyone know how much it might cost to get those things done/fixed? Minor stitching behind collar, sleeve alteration, and resew buttons behind the lining. I understand it'll depend on the tailor and area, but wouldn't mind ballpark estimates!

Great thread all around, so glad I found this along with Peacoat's dating guide. This must be my highest quality coat — I'm kind of regretting buying the only other peacoat I own, I can't see myself wearing it anymore.

 

[Peacoat]

@Tec: In looking at the tag on the previous page, I see that your coat has had plenty of wear. They just hold up amazingly well and look new for years. Also the fact that your buttons have been resewn tells me it has had wear. But that isn't a bad thing as they keep going for 80 or 90 years as long as they are kept away from moths, sharp knives, cats and dogs.

Don't know about the minor stitch repair, but probably negligible costs. The sleeve shortening will be about $40 to $55, depending on where it is done. I had cuffs let out a few years ago on my very first peacoat from about 1971, and it cost about $45. Don't know how much having the buttons resewn will cost, as I have always done it myself. If I were to have more than one or two done, I would take it to a seamstress, however. No need to remove the lining. Just have them sew through the lining, but not the pockets; you want to be able to use your pockets.

In the buttons you will see small grooves in the button between the holes. That is where the thread should be placed.

When shortening the sleeves, have the seamstress save as much of the excess material that she can. That way when someone comes along with longer arms (like me), the cuffs can be let back out.

Congratulations on a good purchase.

 

[Peacoat]

Well, here's the strange thing, Peacoat. The outside measurements on the Kersey peacoat are the same as the outside measurements on my Melton peacoat. The difference between the two coats is the insulated lining on the Melton peacoat. It must give the coat body and make it look more structured (or "sharp" as my girlfriend likes to say). But the Kersey peacoat hangs over my body like a sack. I may have to downsize in the Kersey.

Now that is odd. Never heard of that before. The Kersey shell is a firm and structured shell. Don't know why that would happen.

 

[Tec]

Truly appreciate all of the info, Peacoat!

 

[Tec]

Couple of pictures of the coat being worn. I don't mind wearing it despite the sleeves being a tad bit too long, at least they're not overly long to where the coat looks too big on me. Also, the 40R for my frame is decently snug (not tight). I'd fit into a 42 with a sweater underneath, much like the man Peacoat himself does. One day I might just have to pick up a second one at that size for the colder days.

 

[Peacoat]

Couple of pictures of the coat being worn. I don't mind wearing it despite the sleeves being a tad bit too long, at least they're not overly long to where the coat looks too big on me. Also, the 40R for my frame is decently snug (not tight). I'd fit into a 42 with a sweater underneath, much like the man Peacoat himself does. One day I might just have to pick up a second one at that size for the colder days.

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Nice. You did well.

 

[AbbaDatDeHat]

Couple of pictures of the coat being worn. I don't mind wearing it despite the sleeves being a tad bit too long, at least they're not overly long to where the coat looks too big on me. Also, the 40R for my frame is decently snug (not tight). I'd fit into a 42 with a sweater underneath, much like the man Peacoat himself does. One day I might just have to pick up a second one at that size for the colder days.

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Looks great man!! Yeah might as well go for a second one in 42. I recently acquired two, one larger so i can wear a hoodie under it. You’ll be glad you did.
Bowen

 

[ZenEdge]

Gentleman, please have a look at this label. Is that an L under the 40, and would that indicate a 40 Long perhaps?

 

[Gamma68]

Looks like extra ink residue off the stamp to me. I'd expect an L (designating a "long") to be of the same size as the 40 and placed adjacent to the numerals.

Were they even offered as "long" jackets?

 

[Peacoat]

Agree with Gamma about the "L" being next to the 40.

That tag is early 50s, and my research has shown the Long sizes weren't made back then. At least I have never seen one.

 

[ZenEdge]

Thank you. That is what I thought as well.

 

[ZenEdge]

I picked up a 1976 Vi-Mil, Inc peacoat in a size 38L. Fits better in the shoulders and the sleeves than the 1970 Pembroke peacoat in a size 40L. I knew this coat to have the silver metal buttons, but I figured I could swap them out for the black plastic anchor buttons. It did not occur to my primitive mind that the metal buttons would be noticeably smaller and, obviously, the button holes as well. Anyone ever swapped out the metal buttons on a Zumwalt era peacoat?

 

[Kennyz]

Looks great on you, Tec!

Ken

Couple of pictures of the coat being worn. I don't mind wearing it despite the sleeves being a tad bit too long, at least they're not overly long to where the coat looks too big on me. Also, the 40R for my frame is decently snug (not tight). I'd fit into a 42 with a sweater underneath, much like the man Peacoat himself does. One day I might just have to pick up a second one at that size for the colder days.

View attachment 154144 View attachment 154145

 

[Peacoat]

I picked up a 1976 Vi-Mil, Inc peacoat in a size 38L. Fits better in the shoulders and the sleeves than the 1970 Pembroke peacoat in a size 40L. I knew this coat to have the silver metal buttons, but I figured I could swap them out for the black plastic anchor buttons. It did not occur to my primitive mind that the metal buttons would be noticeably smaller and, obviously, the button holes as well. Anyone ever swapped out the metal buttons on a Zumwalt era peacoat?

1976 was the year the Zumwalt buttons became mandatory, having been phased in since 1974, if I remember correctly. The Zumwalt "pewter" buttons were required until 1984 when the larger fouled anchor buttons returned to service.

My initial reaction was that with this much swapping of button types and sizes, the button holes would fit both buttons. But I thought I should do a bit of testing. I went to my button drawer in the bedroom and grabbed, in the dark, the first buttons I saw (my wife was a bit ill and had gone to bed earlier).

When fitted through the button hole of the pewter button hole coat, the fit was tighter than I thought it should be. I looked at the button and it was a WWI button. Evidently they are a bit thicker than the modern buttons, being made of Bakelite and all.

So, back into the bedroom I went. Had to turn on the light, which was not popular with my wife. Had to explain what I was doing. She wasn't impressed. Found the modern buttons and got out of the bedroom as quickly as possible. The fit of the fouled anchor button into the pewter button hole is a bit tight, but certainly manageable. I would say the button holes are about the same size.

My micrometer, which will give an exact measurement of the two button holes on the Zumwalt coat and the pre Zumwalt coat, is in my shop in the garage downstairs. After all of the above, I don't have the energy to go down and get it tonight.

If I can remember to do it, I will get the micrometer and make the measurements tomorrow. If I don't remember, someone can post here and remind me.