Your Most Disturbing Realizations

[Fading Fast]

Somebody had to hew the stone to make the wheel. Somebody had to fell the tree that rolled down the hill that inspired the idea to hew the stone to make the wheel.

Point being, there isn't a single idea in the history of humanity that was totally original. Every single idea was inspired by the work of someone who came before. There are no Lone Geniuses. Henry Ford built on the ideas of R. E. Olds, who built on the ideas of 19th century carriage manufacturers who learned about precision-parts manufacture from the railroad industry who picked it up from farm-equipment manufacturers, who learned the techniques of 18th century gunsmiths, and so on back to the collective discovery of metalworking by prehistoric man. All invention and all human progress is a collaborative effort building on a common pool of collective knowledge.

There are no absolutely original ideas - yup, agree. But are there no individuals who have advanced knowledge, technology, progress for all in a singularly impressive, individually driven way?

 

[vitanola]

There are no absolutely original ideas - yup, agree. But are there no individuals who have advanced knowledge, technology, progress for all in a singularly impressive, individually driven way?

It has been my understanding that the individual, regardless of his originality or brilliance, has little compass for useful action without the collective.

On the other hand, without the input of the occasional brilliant and original individual the collective will tend to remain mired in the conventional.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I can't think of a single one who didn't owe a very significant debt to someone who came before them. Even in the book of Genesis we read "let us make man in our image..."

 

[vitanola]

I can't think of a single one who didn't owe a very significant debt to someone who came before them. Even in the book of Genesis we read "let us make man in our image..."

Why of course "us" and "our". The Creator is large, and contains multitudes...

 

[LuvMyMan]

I've realized that doing jury duty today is embarrassing.
Not able to sit for long periods, especially in a cold jury room
without having to interrupt the trial to be excused to go to
the restroom every fifteen minutes.

Worse still, is having to admit this at the start of the jury
room selection, especially if it’s a young pretty clerk!

Same applies to hospital gowns.
My sincere admiration to all the lovely nurses
who have made me feel it's ok, even though
inside of me, I still feel embarrassed not wearing
much in front of them!

Just think...regarding the nurses...you may have made their day!

 

[2jakes]

Just think...regarding the nurses...you may have made their day!

This was my first & only time at a hospital
for an operation.
The only thing on my mind was not knowing
what to expect.
The nurse gave me what she called a “happy pill”.
I never felt a thing, actually I felt great & although
it took about half an hour, it seemed like seconds.

And thanks for your reply.

You made my day!

 

[LuvMyMan]

You're welcome!

 

[Lean'n'mean]

I can't think of a single one who didn't owe a very significant debt to someone who came before them. Even in the book of Genesis we read "let us make man in our image..."

There were always individuals who came up with an original idea, the first 'person' who decided to sharpen a stick to make a spear, the first person who started to rub pigments on a cave wall, the first person who had the idea of raising wolf pups, ...........in the beginning there was an idea, even if collectively the idea flourished, there had to be an individual who was capable of formulating an original concept. Today of course, there's nothing new under the sun but there still has to be individuals who have the ability to see beyond what is to what could be, for any sort of change or advancement to take place. It only takes one individual with a brilliant idea to make the whole of humanity look briiliant.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Chimps use sticks to poke termite mounds and get food -- but it's doubtful there was one genius chimp who thought of this first and spread the idea to his fellow chimps. More likely there were a lot of chimps and a lot of sticks and a lot of evolved instinct stemming from the surroundings in which they lived. Likely it went the same way with the evolution of the earliest human cultures.

 

[Lean'n'mean]

Interesting you mention chimps. Not all chimps use sticks to collect termites, it's a 'cultural' thing in that some groups of chimps use twigs, a practice which has been handed down from generation to generation within that particular group. Most mammals don't teach their young anything directly, but the young learn by emulation. Very similar to chimps hitting nuts with sticks or stones to get at the kernel, it's learned behaviour & not innate or instinctive. But anyway, there had to be 'A' chimp, probably a young'un, that first had the idea to stick a twig into a termite's nest to see what would happen to get the ball rolling.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Given the highly social nature of chimp culture, it's more likely that multiple chimps developed the same idea cooperatively, in multiple groups in multiple locations, just as so many human innovations, from toolmaking to agriculture to language, evolved in multiple locations at multiple times.

I think the belief in the "Lone Genius" theory says more about the philosophical structure of our civilization than anything else. We believe in "Lone Geniuses" because we need for there to *be* "lone geniuses" in order to sustain a society built on the fiction of meritocracy, and we create a vision of history for ourselves that fits within this belief. In that vision Spencer Tracy invented the light bulb, Don Ameche invented the telephone, and Baird if you're Scottish, Zworykin if you're Russian, or Farnsworth if you're American invented television.

 

[LuvMyMan]

Given the highly social nature of chimp culture, it's more likely that multiple chimps developed the same idea cooperatively, in multiple groups in multiple locations, just as so many human innovations, from toolmaking to agriculture to language, evolved in multiple locations at multiple times.

I think the belief in the "Lone Genius" theory says more about the philosophical structure of our civilization than anything else. We believe in "Lone Geniuses" because we need for there to *be* "lone geniuses" in order to sustain a society built on the fiction of meritocracy, and we create a vision of history for ourselves that fits within this belief.

Well there is merit in everyone's opinion here. But even in today's actions in society, it took one person to decide even if in a group with friends, to pull their pants half off and start a fad among the younger crowd. And from that point on, where has that taken a major number of young people to be a bit "off" in their thought processes and thinking? With some humor, I always think of the song, "Pants on the Ground" when it comes to young people that want to walk around with their pants down around their rear end! Haha!

 

[Lean'n'mean]

I think the belief in the "Lone Genius" theory says more about the philosophical structure of our civilization than anything else. We believe in "Lone Geniuses" because we need for there to *be* "lone geniuses" in order to sustain a society built on the fiction of meritocracy, and we create a vision of history for ourselves that fits within this belief. In that vision Spencer Tracy invented the light bulb, Don Ameche invented the telephone, and Baird if you're Scottish, Zworykin if you're Russian, or Farnsworth if you're American invented television.

Spoken like a true unionist.. ...I don't think it has anything to do with being a 'genius' though, whatever that is but just individuals being able to think outside of the box. Besides, it's difficult to believe that all great innovations & inventions were conceived by committee.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Not so much by a formal committee as by building on a foundation already laid by others. Experiments in incandescent electric lighting had been going on for eighty years by the time Spencer Tracy started his experiments -- which experiments were quickly farmed out to his laboratory workforce who spent much of their time sifting thru past patents for inspiration.

Mr. Edison was, however, a master of marketing. He successfully sold the image of himself as the Wizard Of Menlo Park to the point where he even believed it himself. I think this is true of any of the Lone Geniuses of the last hundred and fifty years or so -- being a "Lone Genius" was good business, and they sought to make the most of it. You can see that right down to contemporary times with the Cult Of Jobs, the Bezos Who Conquered The World, and other "self made" self-promoters.

 

[vitanola]

Given the highly social nature of chimp culture, it's more likely that multiple chimps developed the same idea cooperatively, in multiple groups in multiple locations, just as so many human innovations, from toolmaking to agriculture to language, evolved in multiple locations at multiple times.

I think the belief in the "Lone Genius" theory says more about the philosophical structure of our civilization than anything else. We believe in "Lone Geniuses" because we need for there to *be* "lone geniuses" in order to sustain a society built on the fiction of meritocracy, and we create a vision of history for ourselves that fits within this belief. In that vision Spencer Tracy invented the light bulb, Don Ameche invented the telephone, and Baird if you're Scottish, Zworykin if you're Russian, or Farnsworth if you're American invented television.

Well, actually, Edison's two great "strokes of genius" were the phonograph, which was the result of an accident meeting a prepared mind under just the right circumstances (had he not had a hearing impediment and been working so studiously on telephone improvements at the time he would probably not have pursued it) and the concept of "Electric Light" as a SYSTEM, not an individual invention. There were a number of men who were working in the concept of a glowing filimament in an evacuated globe as a source of artificial light. Edison, on the other hand, set out to create a system of lighting first and foremost. He first directed his staff (the mathemetician Upton, primarily) to determine the necessary characteristics of a successful "electric burner" which could work in shunt on a system of wiring which could economically distribute energy before beginning the development of the bulb. While the bulb was in development his laboratory group was also designing the necessary distribution equipment along with the most efficient generators designed to date.

His only real invention, it seems, was a big one; the systems approach to industrial research and the concept of the industrial research laboratory.

 

[LizzieMaine]

And yet even the phonograph owed much to the "phonautograph" twenty years earlier, which used the same basic principle of a rotating recording medium and a vibrating stylus to create images of sound. Edison merely switched out the carbon-black tracing for an embossed track on metal.

Bell's own experiments with sound recording were even more interesting -- he tried to duplicate the phonautograph using dissected ear parts from a corpse. Leon-Scott had based the original phonautograph on the structure of the human ear, and Bell apparently thought going back to the source might yield improvements. Every idea comes from observation of something that already exists.

 

[vitanola]

And yet even the phonograph owed much to the "phonautograph" twenty years earlier, which used the same basic principle of a rotating recording medium and a vibrating stylus to create images of sound. Edison merely switched out the carbon-black tracing for an embossed track on metal.

Bell's own experiments with sound recording were even more interesting -- he tried to duplicate the phonautograph using dissected ear parts from a corpse. Leon-Scott had based the original phonautograph on the structure of the human ear, and Bell apparently thought going back to the source might yield improvements. Every idea comes from observation of something that already exists.

The phonaotograph is similar in principle, but was intended as a scientific tool to allow the visual study of sound waves. Of course Koenig's Manometric Flame, which was developed in the late '60's was far more satisfactory in this regard. The invention in the case of the phonograph was the concept of embossing and replaying. "Chance favors the prepared mind" after all, and Edison's mind was uniquely prepared for this development at that particular moment. There is a great deal to be said for being in the right place at the right time, surrounded by the right people. The "collective" tends not to produce breakthroughs, but then neither doe the indupividual acting alone.

In Bell's case, he was in fact duplicating the Phonautograph, not building a sound reproducing machine. His experiments in sound reproduction had to wait until after his receipt of the Volta Prize.

 

[2jakes]

Well there is merit in everyone's opinion here. But even in today's actions in society, it took one person to decide even if in a group with friends, to pull their pants half off and start a fad among the younger crowd. And from that point on, where has that taken a major number of young people to be a bit "off" in their thought processes and thinking? With some humor, I always think of the song, "Pants on the Ground" when it comes to young people that want to walk around with their pants down around their rear end! Haha!

In the early ‘60s, it took four young lads who let their hair grow which started a fad that
forever changed the way men wear their hair.
Before, in movies with the exception of the man on the cross, everyone from Bogart to McQueen
with Brando & Dean in between, sported “clean-cut” haircuts.

 

[LizzieMaine]

All true, but my point was that Edison was not working in an intellectual vacuum. He didn't "invent" so much as build on a foundation that others had already laid -- adding to the collective science on acoustics rather than creating something independently. He had most of the theoretical work already done for him -- he knew that a vibrating stylus could be used to leave a trail in a compliant material because this had already been well-established, and Charles Cros in France even beat him to the punch by working out a theoretical model for sound reproduction. Had Edison not chosen to work on this particular project, it was only a matter of time -- short time -- before someone else accomplished it, because the collective understanding of the science involved had reached a critical level.

 

[LizzieMaine]

In the early ‘60s, it took four young lads who let their hair grow which started a fad that
forever changed the way men wear their hair.
Before, in movies with the exception of the man on the cross, everyone from Bogart to McQueen
with Brando & Dean in between, sported “clean-cut” haircuts.

Ish Kabibble, 1934

Oaky Doaks, 1935

Prince Valiant, 1937