You know you are getting old when:

[vitanola]

That's one of my favorite records, especially the kitty-cat violin effect. Twee, but very enjoyably so.

I'll take any thirties ear-worm you can name over the most sinister of forties ear-worms: "Cement mixer, putti-putti." Or "Bongo Bongo Bongo I don't wanna leave the Congo." Or "The Frim Fram Sauce with the ussinfay and shifafa on the side." Compared to those, "Shoot The Sherbert To Me Herbert" is Jerome Kern.

What about "Boop Boop Diddum Daddum Waddum Choo!"? That's thirties.

Heavenly days!

After listening to THAT "Hold Tight" is bubbling 'twixt my ears.

Want some seafood indeed!

 

[1mach1]

Boy, you aren't kidding. I know I need glasses to read, yet I'm still that guy who forgets that until they hand me the menu at a restaurant and I have to go back to my truck to get them.

I can't count how many tines that has happened. Way too many.

Why does it have to be so darn dark in restaurants?!?!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

On the other hand, though, I never knew until this minute that there was ever a musical group called "Skid Row," so I guess it goes both ways.

Or just as bad, searching for an old song from the 20's through the '40s and getting nothing but modern contemporary songs with the same title.

 

[sheeplady]

One of my close friends grew up without a TV. I swore I'd never do that to my child... She never really felt like she fit in because of it. As an adult, she watches way more television than I do... and she has a 3 hour communte total each day and I have 10 minutes.

I grew up the the television constantly on in the kitchen, which was also the only space I had to do homework (when I had the time to do it). The one thing i can say is that noise absolutely doesn't bother me when working- grounds will be blowing leaves feet outside my office window and I won't notice they're there until someone says something about it being so noisy.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

when people from TV series die.....so many of them...that you liked and followed......like I don't know...David Cassidy? from "The Partridge Family" dies??????????????? what the heck......what's this

This'll make feel old -- the realisation that, except for Todd Bridges, the entire cast of '80s sitcom Diffren't Strokes are dead.

 

[Zombie_61]

...Why does it have to be so darn dark in restaurants?!?!

So you can't see how badly the cooks have mangled your meal?

 

[3fingers]

So you can't see how badly the cooks have mangled your meal?

There is a restaurant here that has been a local favorite for over 50 years. It isn't as dark as some, but the lights are usually pretty low.
A fellow I know went one night when for some reason the place was fully illuminated. He says he will never go back to such a craphole.

 

[LizzieMaine]

One of my close friends grew up without a TV. I swore I'd never do that to my child... She never really felt like she fit in because of it. As an adult, she watches way more television than I do... and she has a 3 hour communte total each day and I have 10 minutes.

I grew up the the television constantly on in the kitchen, which was also the only space I had to do homework (when I had the time to do it). The one thing i can say is that noise absolutely doesn't bother me when working- grounds will be blowing leaves feet outside my office window and I won't notice they're there until someone says something about it being so noisy.

I watched pretty much unlimited television growing up -- one of my first words was "Rockite," meaning "Cronkite" -- and some of it was exceptionally good: i was in on the ground floor for Mister Rogers, seeing his show when it was only available on a regional northeastern "educational" network, I realized from a very young age that "Green Acres" was a work of twisted genius, I was a faithful viewer of Art Fleming's "Jeopardy" before I learned to read, and I learned to appreciate the distinction between good cartoons (Warner, MGM, Fleischer Popeye) and bad cartoons (Terrytoons, Post-1950 Lantz, Post-Fleischer Popeye) before I started school. But I also watched a lot of terrible crap -- dopey adventure shows, half-season sitcoms, brainless celebrity game shows, and sub-B movies that should have been cut up for ukulele picks. And I was suspicious of commercials even before I ever heard of Vance Packard. I think soaking up so much television as a young child taught me more about critical thinking than just about any other experience of my life.

I think it's very important for kids to grow up learning to separate the worthwhile from the worthless, and they can't do that unless they have it all spread out in front of them.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Or just as bad, searching for an old song from the 20's through the '40s and getting nothing but modern contemporary songs with the same title.

You mean "The Police" didn't record "With Every Breath I Take?"

 

[GHT]

You mean "The Police" didn't record "With Every Breath I Take?"

On a local radio station the DJ played: Shake Rattle & Roll, by a popular Welsh fellow, name of Shakin' Stevens. The DJ then asked who had the original hit. A listener phoned in to say: Bill Haley & The Comets. Correct said the DJ.
No sooner than he made that classic faux pas than a very irate listener e-mailed to ask if Bill Haley's version had the line:
"You wearin' those dresses, your hair done up so nice. You look so warm but your heart is as cold as ice."
Why did they change it from Jesse Stone's original:
"You wear those dresses, the sun comes shining through. I can't believe my eyes all that mess belongs to you"
The DJ, stupid as ever, and probably never heard of Jesse Stone, or the artiste, Big Joe Turner, wouldn't back down.
I was tempted to ask what he thought of the line:
"I'm like a one-eyed cat peekin' in a seafood store" But as the history of the song, the author and the original artiste went over his head, I thought, why bother?

 

[1mach1]

So you can't see how badly the cooks have mangled your meal?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

 

[3fingers]

I think it's very important for kids to grow up learning to separate the worthwhile from the worthless, and they can't do that unless they have it all spread out in front of them.

I agree with the idea. My hesitation to fully buy in is the popularity of the absolute mindless garbage that is available. If mom and dad watch utter brain rot while giggling like hyenas it does not bode well for the children.

 

[GHT]

I agree with the idea. My hesitation to fully buy in is the popularity of the absolute mindless garbage that is available. If mom and dad watch utter brain rot while giggling like hyenas it does not bode well for the children.

Did 'Big Brother' ever reach your shores? I only have to see that listed in the schedules and I'm reaching for the smelling salts. Talk about lowest common denominator TV.

 

[3fingers]

Did 'Big Brother' ever reach your shores? I only have to see that listed in the schedules and I'm reaching for the smelling salts. Talk about lowest common denominator TV.

Yes it is/was on here. I've seen ads for it but never watched it. The ads were more than I wanted to see of it.

 

[Fading Fast]

One of my favorite movies is The Third Man. I can’t even imagine it in color. I hope that they never colorize it or decide to do a remake.

My God would color destroy that movie. But that movie should never be remade - it is a product of its time and Welles and Cotton and should just be left alone. The frenetic pace of modern "espionage thrillers" would kill everything that makes that movie special.

 

[Fading Fast]

I watched pretty much unlimited television growing up -- one of my first words was "Rockite," meaning "Cronkite" -- and some of it was exceptionally good: i was in on the ground floor for Mister Rogers, seeing his show when it was only available on a regional northeastern "educational" network, I realized from a very young age that "Green Acres" was a work of twisted genius, I was a faithful viewer of Art Fleming's "Jeopardy" before I learned to read, and I learned to appreciate the distinction between good cartoons (Warner, MGM, Fleischer Popeye) and bad cartoons (Terrytoons, Post-1950 Lantz, Post-Fleischer Popeye) before I started school. But I also watched a lot of terrible crap -- dopey adventure shows, half-season sitcoms, brainless celebrity game shows, and sub-B movies that should have been cut up for ukulele picks. And I was suspicious of commercials even before I ever heard of Vance Packard. I think soaking up so much television as a young child taught me more about critical thinking than just about any other experience of my life.

I think it's very important for kids to grow up learning to separate the worthwhile from the worthless, and they can't do that unless they have it all spread out in front of them.

Not as much as you, but I watched a lot of TV once we inherited my grandmother's B&W set - as long as my chores were done and I was doing okay in school, I was ignored and could do whatever I wanted (that didn't scare the horses). I only half joke that I learned Christian values from shows like "The Big Valley."

My parents didn't practice or teach me any religion - and morality was dictated not explained ("do this / don't do that, period"), so my exposure to the thought and ideology of Christianity was through friends' families and media. Looking back, it's amazing how much "soft" Christianity was embedded in TV shows from the '50s and '60s. I'd say this held up through the '70s as, after the cultural revolution of the late '60s, it took about a decade for that "soft" Christian value system to lose out to the snark and nihilistic view that dominated shows like "Seinfeld."

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying one is right or wrong - I'm not looking to start that gunfight - but I do believe, factually, you can see a change where plots and themes of TV shows reflected a traditional Christian view (of "surface" America in the '50s and '60s - reality was different) into the '70s that then changed.

As to commercials, I bet most kids, at some point - 7, 8, 9 years old or there about - realize what commercials are all about and the jading begins.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Those themes were put there deliberately. The 1950s and 1960s were the heyday of the "Religion In American Life" organization, which was formed by the NAM just after the war to promote what can best be called "Corporate Christianity," which was very a much a pick-and-choose vision of the more authoritarian aspects of the teachings of Paul. There wasn't a lot of actual Christ in it, but it suited the purposes of the time: people were taught to keep their noses to the grindstone, obey authority figures, and not make waves. "Patriotism" was conflated with "Christianity" by RIAL, although such a concept is taught nowhere in the New Testament. "Loving thy neighbor as thyself" only entered into the equation if it didn't mean higher taxes. And needless to say, the whip-cracking Jesus who threw the moneychangers out of the temple was nowhere to be found.

Where this ties in with media is that there were active efforts to put these themes into movies and television programming: studios and producers were convinced to cooperate with RIAL thru economic and political pressure. Walt Disney and Cecil B. DeMille were very influential leaders in promoting the RIAL line in Hollywood, and the campaign's influence was felt for quite some time, especially after TV's emphasis shifted from live New York productions to filmed shows made in Hollywood.

RIAL essentially created a new sect of Christianity that didn't exist to any great extent before the war -- not so much to promote the teachings of Christ, but to encourage the dismantling of the New Deal. It remained in operation as an NAM front into the 1970s, and laid the foundation of the rise of the so-called "Christian Right" during the latter part of that decade, with that faction continuing to promote a line which owes more to J. Howard Pew than to Jesus Christ.

I think the most Christian -- in the true Christian sense, not the NAM sense -- TV show ever broadcast was "Mister Rogers' Neighborhood." Rogers was an ordained minister, and while he never directly "preached," the actual teachings of Christ suffused every aspect of the program. There are books analyzing Rogers' theology -- he started as a Presbyterian, but eventually moved toward Universalism -- but he seems to me to have been essentially a "Red Letter Christian:" one who promotes the teachings of Christ himself, as recorded in the gospels, as superior in authority to those of Paul or those of subsequent church leaders. Needless to say, he was not involved in the RIAL movement.

 

[2jakes]

... I bet most kids, at some point - 7, 8, 9 years old or there about - realize what commercials are all about and the jading begins.

I get the feeling that some kids growing up watching television believe that life
has a beginning, a middle and an ending with the solution at the end
of a half hour just like in the TV shows.
They feel jaded when they realize this is not the real world.
I'm talking about kids in lower income who have not prepared themselves for finding a
good or skilled job after finishing school.
Sadly not all school systems are the same.
They ask me how I became a news cameraman. I tell them it took time,
working part time at various jobs and finding out what was needed to
become a cameraman.
I see them all the time at the public tennis courts.
I have many old spare tennis rackets which they appreciate and enjoy.
I try to give them hope.

 

[Fading Fast]

Those themes were put there deliberately. The 1950s and 1960s were the heyday of the "Religion In American Life" organization, which was formed by the NAM just after the war to promote what can best be called "Corporate Christianity," which was very a much a pick-and-choose vision of the more authoritarian aspects of the teachings of Paul. There wasn't a lot of actual Christ in it, but it suited the purposes of the time: people were taught to keep their noses to the grindstone, obey authority figures, and not make waves. "Patriotism" was conflated with "Christianity" by RIAL, although such a concept is taught nowhere in the New Testament. "Loving thy neighbor as thyself" only entered into the equation if it didn't mean higher taxes. And needless to say, the whip-cracking Jesus who threw the moneychangers out of the temple was nowhere to be found.

Where this ties in with media is that there were active efforts to put these themes into movies and television programming: studios and producers were convinced to cooperate with RIAL thru economic and political pressure. Walt Disney and Cecil B. DeMille were very influential leaders in promoting the RIAL line in Hollywood, and the campaign's influence was felt for quite some time, especially after TV's emphasis shifted from live New York productions to filmed shows made in Hollywood.

RIAL essentially created a new sect of Christianity that didn't exist to any great extent before the war -- not so much to promote the teachings of Christ, but to encourage the dismantling of the New Deal. It remained in operation as an NAM front into the 1970s, and laid the foundation of the rise of the so-called "Christian Right" during the latter part of that decade, with that faction continuing to promote a line which owes more to J. Howard Pew than to Jesus Christ.

I think the most Christian -- in the true Christian sense, not the NAM sense -- TV show ever broadcast was "Mister Rogers' Neighborhood." Rogers was an ordained minister, and while he never directly "preached," the actual teachings of Christ suffused every aspect of the program. There are books analyzing Rogers' theology -- he started as a Presbyterian, but eventually moved toward Universalism -- but he seems to me to have been essentially a "Red Letter Christian:" one who promotes the teachings of Christ himself, as recorded in the gospels, as superior in authority to those of Paul or those of subsequent church leaders. Needless to say, he was not involved in the RIAL movement.

As always, you have a lot of in-depth background information - thank you. One thing that stood out to me then, and now, is as you note, there isn't a lot of overt Christ references - other than a bland "we go to church" meme (I believe I have 31 more times that I can use that word as I will kill myself if I exceed 100 uses in my life as I hate it, but admit it is darn useful) and the occasional (really rare) bible reference.

It's Christianity almost by proxy - the Barkley's of "The Big Valley" were, IMHO, the epitome of this construct. They were church going (but you only saw that occasionally), never preachy, but it was all "Christian" charity, kindness, turning the other cheek, judge not lest..., and "traditional" values of honor, hard work, honesty, etc.

As you also note, the basic structure of America capitalism wasn't challenged, but then why would it be, companies - and media companies are companies - have no reason to commit suicide and countries, by and large, support by cultural conventions their extant economic models.

That said, maybe it wasn't New Deal, but plenty of modern left or progressive ideas were promoted - the Barkley's loved government programs, rules and regulations to improve this or that market failing (and they fought the railroads - literally with guns - to protect the farmer from the greedy corporation). They were also big supporters of liberal ideas like prison reform, reduced sentences and rehab (not the term they used) not punishment for crimes related to addictions.

I'm trying real hard not to turn this discussion into a political battle - we have too many of those. My point is not New Deal "good or bad," or even "capitalism" good or bad, but simply that the values of "The Big Valley," et al. were a blend of capitalism, Christianity and modern liberalism - they were not a pure Republican or political right (at least the political right of today) viewpoint.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Barbara Stanwyck herself may also have had a lot to do with that. Her personal politics were pretty much hard to the right, especially after her marriage to Frank Fay, who became in many respects her political mentor. She did not, as an intelligent woman, absorb Fay's stupid and vicious anti-Semitism or racism, but she did come to share his anti-New Deal point of view, and became even by the end of the thirties a leading member of the Hollywood Right. But she also had a strong populist streak which went against much of the NAM line, and I think aspects of that also leaked into "Big Valley," and are responsible for the themes you mention. She was a very interesting and complex woman, both personally and politically.