Yes, but is this art?

[jamespowers]

Ok, BT and Bink. I am having the Vandals run over to your houses now to do some "graffiti art" on the side of your houses and cars. You don't need to thank me.
Geez, I guess words do not mean things anymore either. 1984 has hit the Lounge! [huh] I suggest you should call Graffiti something else then. Maybe something like brick or cement painting. Are you sure you mean to condone defacing someone else's property or were you just being facetious? I don't mind many art forms as long as they are not forced upon me by vandals. :kick:
Lastly, Milliners and Hatters are both artists whatever you want to call it that is fine but they are defined skills. I am not even going to go to the dictionary because you do not agree with it anyway. :kick: Geez, how can someone disagree with the dictionary then chastise me for disagreeing with what art is? I suppose being open minded has its drawbacks.

Regards to all,

J

P.S. MK, you might want to save some of that "art" you mentioned. It looks liek there is a big market for it.

 

[Wild Root]

Some of you guys don’t live here in LA. Graffiti here is just ugly and it is to tell all who see it who was there and why it was put there. NO ONE CAN READ IT! Well, unless you belong to the opposing Gang. Over here there were paintings painted on the walls that line parts of the historic 110 freeway as you enter LA. They were painted to help beautify the City for the up coming 84 Summer Games. That has now been covered by taggers in some parts. I have to side in with JP on most of what has been said. I have been drawing for 24 years! And I’d consider what I do art. I love to use pencil and pen and also Photoshop on my PC. I hate graffiti because it forces me to see what I wouldn’t like to see. Driving through LA I see some really great architecture from the 20’s to the 40’s and I would love to enjoy all of those buildings bridges and such with out the graffiti! Even buildings and bridges I feel are art. They were designed by an architect at one point and he used his design to sell the firm to use his designs. So, when some one covers art with their art, I can’t say its art at all! Once I dew a picture, a friend took it and showed some other friends what I drew. It came back with crude additions on it making fun of my work. Would this crowd here call that art? Well, you might as well do so because that’s what graffiti is. Disrespecting art is a crime in my mind. It hurts and isn’t kind.

Graffiti is art in many places in the world. Over on my part of the planet it’s not. It’s stupid gang bangers hanging off freeway ramps just to scribble something that no one can read. You should see all the barbed wire that has gone up to discourage taggers. All over freeway signs, overpasses and walls! It’s like Fort Knox over here.

I guess over a crossed the Pond graffiti may be a little more easy on the eye or may have a point to be made then what a local street gang has to do with it..

I’m an artist and I believe art is to uplift, enrich and motivate people to be better and work as a positive influence in life.

This don't uplift me much at all. 605 south into Whittier CA.

Nope, sorry can't see any art here! This is just right out sick.

Ah man! Not a California Spanish! Not art I'm sure of that!

Now, this is art! I wouldn't say it's graffiti though.

Nope, I see art here!

Root.

 

[ITG]

What would some of you consider those sidewalk guys that use spray paint to paint pictures of landscapes? Anyone know what I'm talking about or maybe it's just here in Texas where I've seen it done. Some amazing work using just spray paint cans.

 

[Wild Root]

Yeah Holly! I have seen those guys and I love to watch them paint! Very cool stuff. I've seen them in San Fran a few years ago. Rally cool how they do all that work with just a few spray cans.

I'm not sure on what they call that form of art, but I really dig watching them do their work. I wish I was that handy with a spray can!

Root.

 

[Matt Deckard]

Grafitti is grafitti and art is art. If you are infringing on someone elses creation be it a home or a painting then you are creating grafitti.

He hung his art on a wall. He defaced nothing other than the museum. The picture in itself is art. The picture being their makes it grafitti.

 

[ITG]

WR, yeah and I'm amazed at how fast they can do a print with such detailed landscapes.

 

[Wild Root]

This is Graffiti, not art. Taking and drawing on some one's art is graffiti!

Root.

 

[Matt Deckard]

See, to Root that's art. To MK that's grafitti.

I like it. To me it's art.

 

[jamespowers]

Gee, finally a few people making sense here. I agree with you Root. Makes sense to me if it was done with approval from the city or the owner of the building. I am pretty sure those last pieces you pictured were either commissioned by the city or the artist was given the space to create. There are places like this in my area up here as well. That is not graffiti it is a commissioned piece of art. Big difference.
I think someone is finally getting my drift.

Regards to all,

J

 

[BellyTank]

You guys seem to have missed the bus and gone to town on the Graffiti/vandalism thing here.
I didn't think there was a point there vandalism is vandalism.
It was never the vandalism I was talking about and I didn't think that was what Lauren was talking about when she brought it up. I was talking about Grafitti Art, it's been going since the '70s, someone must have a clue... there are books about it- come on!
And JP, your dictionary entry was for 'Grafitti', not Graffiti art, which there may not be an entry for. Graffiti needn't be on a building or a train, it can be on canvas or anything. It is an art-form after all. There's a whole world of stuff out there you don't know about.

BT.

 

[Matt Deckard]

Grafitti is vandalism and art is art.

I agree that there can be an art called Grafitti-art, though it cannot be called straight 'grafitti'. Grafitti and grafitti-art would have to be two seperate entities.

If you make grafitti-art, you have to divorce it from being grafitti.

(unless of course you like the grafitti, then it becomes art)

 

[jamespowers]

It was never the vandalism I was talking about and I didn't think that was what Lauren was talking about when she brought it up. I was talking about Grafitti Art, it's been going since the '70s, someone must have a clue... there are books about it- come on!.

Ok, then show us some pictures of what you are talking about. We cannot read your mind. Graffiti is Graffiti to me. Call it something else then. Root put forward what the difference was between a mural and graffiti. Now show us what you mean. Geez, talk about a picture being worth a few thousand words.

And JP, your dictionary entry was for 'Grafitti', not Graffiti art, which there may not be an entry for. Graffiti needn't be on a building or a train, it can be on canvas or anything. It is an art-form after all. There's a whole world of stuff out there you don't know about.

The dictionary entry I sited was for Graffiti. Perhaps my fingers typed it incorrectly. There is only one spelling that is correct. I said it would be fine if it was on a canvas so I wasn't forced to look at it as I drive to work previously so that is a moot point. I am not sure if it would be an art form but I suppose some people do collect those Elvis paintings on velvet too.
There probably are plenty of things out there that many do not know about. Some of which I do not care to know about and others I might seek out. Whatever the case, the world is a big place and sometimes there is a disconnect between knowing something and thinking you know something. I prefer to delve into any particular subject and make sure that what is being stated is true and not merely a fabrication to inviegle the thoughtless into believing something that is patently not true.
By all means show me what you consider "Graffiti art" not a concept that swirls in the imagination. Perhaps that camel might be an elephant.

Regards to all,

J

 

[BellyTank]

Well Matt... almost, I do think that the word 'Graffiti' has outgrown its definition.
If you know something about Graffiti, you would know that the vandalism is a small part of the goings on in that world. Despite what you may think, Graffiti doesn't automatically mean crime- maybe to some... not to me.

Graffiti is art and Graffiti is vandalism and Graffiti is Graffiti- art is whatever we think it is. Apparently-

I think the point of this discussion has been lost-

BT.

 

[Matt Deckard]

.'.Fish.'.

 

[BellyTank]

If you're interested JP, look for yourself- if you're not interested, then why bother. I didn't start the Graffiti thing anyhoo. And once again, I was under the impression we (me and Lauren)were talking about graffiti as art, a style, a genre, and influence, not the vandalism.
It's not mine to defend. It's not that important really, is it now?

BT.

 

[Matt Deckard]

Not that we have concluded that a guy can take a dump on the floor and it can be "art"........

Yes a man can! Art is what you percieve to be art. To me that dump is a statement that can't be ignored.

 

[jamespowers]

If you're interested JP, look for yourself- if you're not interested, then why bother. I didn't start the Graffiti thing anyhoo. And once again, I was under the impression we (me and Lauren)were talking about graffiti as art, a style, a genre, and influence, not the vandalism.
It's not mine to defend. It's not that important really, is it now?

Geez, I wanted to see a concrete picture of what you define it as. I think we all would: now that it has been bantered about so much. Just post one photo. We might as well all have a look at it. If graffiti is an "art form" then lets see the artform.
You already know what I think graffiti is and have seen pictures of it, definitions and descriptions. I suppose if you have never cleaned it off of something you own then it is a much more sedate topic. Perhaps the jews in Germany during WWII thought graffiti swastikas and words such as "Juden" sprayed on their homes and businesses might have other ideas as to what graffiti is. It is important to define it.

Regards to all,

J

 

[Matt Deckard]

I'd like the term grafitti to hold it's ground as vandalism and grafitti-art to have it's own life. Apparently grafitti-art is not maligned works of others. grafitti is maligned works of others.

That being said, grafitti can still be art, though art at the expense of others.

 

[BellyTank]

That's a very sensible, balanced, thoughtful and open minded outlook
Mr. Deckard!

BT.

 

[binkmeisterRick]

Again, I don't think there's any disagreeing over what is true vandalism. Swastikas on doorways and buildings is NOT art. That is HATE. I, too, was thinking along the lines of Lauren and BT with the actual grafitti-art movement which is art in its own right. I DO NOT condone grafitti on public murals or existing artwork or inocent people's cars or homes. THAT is true vandalism. Matt, I think you hit it on the head by calling one grafitti and the other grafitti-art. But just to throw another coal on the dictonary fire, my Webster does not list it as "grafitti." Rather, they spell it "graffito." Go figure.

bink