WWII Theaters of Operation... Which Do You Prefer?

[John in Covina]

For me I'd say I can't decide really, most of all the WWII vets I know or knew were in Europe like my dad and that is a powerful connection. However the Pacific has such an amasing flair of unusual cultures and exotic locals that it is an area that is very intriguing. God Bless the USA!

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Curiously the Fleet Air Arm was part of the RAF before the war which explains the RAF Corporal mentioned by Mr. Griffin.

And now back to our regularly scheduled thread...

My own World War II interests are all over the map though I'm primarily an aviation buff so my main interests are the USAAF and the Luftwaffe. Of late, however, I've developed an interest in North Africa and the Eastern Front -- having read everything I could think of about the Wehrmacht, my focus of interest is now on the Russians.

Other interests in this sphere are:

The "little wars" within WWII such as the Russo-Finnish War (1939-40) and the brief war in Indochina between Thailand and Vichy France in 1941. Another one that would qualify as a separate war was when Romania switched sides in 1944 and joined the Allies. They took the opportunity to have a go at and settle old scores with their former temporary "ally" and traditional enemy Hungary.

Signal Corps (also including infantry radio operators, as well as the signal troops of the other combatants)

Anerican armor -- particularly the early light tanks.

 

[Speedbird]

I think I am correct in saying the Fleet Air Arm grew out of the Royal Navy Air Service from WW1, but in 1918 the RFC and RNAS were merged to form the RAF. The RAF were supposed to provide a naval aviation force to the Navy, but of course, it didn't devote much energy or resource in that directon. The Admiralty weren't happy with this and lobbied to get it's own air service back again just before WW2. RAF personnel were still attached to what became the Fleet Air Arm into the war because they had the specialist skills.

Going back to fitters and mechanics, I have for now given up on trying to find an accurate trade descriptor. I am sure it is buried in the Trades Union lore somewhere. I am fairly certain a mechanic maintains and repairs things and a fitter makes and fits things - but I don't mean like putting together a kitchen or an Ikea flat pack. I think a fitter includes draughtsmanship/design skills and fabrication as well the nuts and bolts of 'fitting' the thing; in other words making or modifying an item to do a job from scratch.

My Desert Airforce grandfather was a Fitter; he spent his war maintaining and making up parts, tools, jigs, brackets, mountings and repair sections to keep the aircraft flying. There was mechanical work involved but also draughtsmanship in terms of drawing and laying up of designs/plans, and then fabrication skills in making the thing and engineering skills in fitting the thing to the aircraft. He was a Flight Sergeant; after the war he was an aircraft engineer with Fairey. It was highly skilled engineering work. He showed me really finely crafted tools including micrometers, various jigs and machine-turned metal objects he had fabricated in basically a tent in North Africa because they simply didn't have all they needed. The planes were patched back together time and time again like some old patchwork quilt but even so this was precision engineering with very fine tolerances. Quite miraculous really.

 

[Cobden]

Yeah, the FAA's history is rather...convuluted. Following the merger of the RFC and RNAS, the original components pretty much contiuned as they had done previously until the War's end; after the war, Naval aviation became non-existant more or less, until the founding of the Fleet Air Arm of the RAF in (IIRC) 1927. However, the situation wasn't satisfactory in the Admiralty's view, and much political wrangling went on - the Air Ministry's annoyance combined with the Trenchard Doctrine leading to more and more reduced investment in naval aviation, until 1938 (IIRC) when the Inskip award saw the transfer of naval aviation to the Navy, with theRoyal Air Force Fleet Air Arm becoming the Air Branch of the Royal Navy (many resources get this the wrong way around - the term Fleet Air Arm was often used even at the time for the Naval Flyers, but i/wass technically incorrect for the period. The Air Branch, to add more confusion, was renamed the Fleet Air Arm in IIRC 1952). In the early days of the Air Branch, things were rather confusing, with a mixture of RAF personell, RAF transfered to the RN personel, RNAS transfered to the RAF transfered back to the RN personell, newly trained RN personell, RFC becoming RAF becoming RAF FAA...now my eyes have gone crossed...

Incidentally, and OT, the BOAC impression:

Allo the metal insignia is original, currently badged up as a Navigator, though I do have original pilots wings - most pilots were considerably older then myself, whereas there were young navigators (though they weren't used on all flights) and wireless operators (more common, but involves some very annoying wiggling of the rank lace!)

 

[Diamondback]

Cobden, speaking of the FAA: part of a research project I'm on involves trying to figure out what the "standard airgroups" of the various RN aircraft carriers was at various times. Can you recommend any references? (I know about "Carrier Ops of WWII", but can't find a copy anywhere west of the Atlantic to peruse.)

 

[PistolPete1969]

For me, the CBI (China/Burma/India) theater is the more interesting of the war. First, the AVG (aka Flying Tigers) characters; then you throw in the mysterious intrigue of China and flying the "Hump", you have, IMHO, and very interesting theater.

Just my .02 cents


Pete

 

[Speedbird]

Yeah, the FAA's history is rather...convuluted. Following the merger of the RFC and RNAS, the original components pretty much contiuned as they had done previously until the War's end; after the war, Naval aviation became non-existant more or less, until the founding of the Fleet Air Arm of the RAF in (IIRC) 1927. However, the situation wasn't satisfactory in the Admiralty's view, and much political wrangling went on - the Air Ministry's annoyance combined with the Trenchard Doctrine leading to more and more reduced investment in naval aviation, until 1938 (IIRC) when the Inskip award saw the transfer of naval aviation to the Navy, with theRoyal Air Force Fleet Air Arm becoming the Air Branch of the Royal Navy (many resources get this the wrong way around - the term Fleet Air Arm was often used even at the time for the Naval Flyers, but i/wass technically incorrect for the period. The Air Branch, to add more confusion, was renamed the Fleet Air Arm in IIRC 1952). In the early days of the Air Branch, things were rather confusing, with a mixture of RAF personell, RAF transfered to the RN personel, RNAS transfered to the RAF transfered back to the RN personell, newly trained RN personell, RFC becoming RAF becoming RAF FAA...now my eyes have gone crossed...

Incidentally, and OT, the BOAC impression:

Allo the metal insignia is original, currently badged up as a Navigator, though I do have original pilots wings - most pilots were considerably older then myself, whereas there were young navigators (though they weren't used on all flights) and wireless operators (more common, but involves some very annoying wiggling of the rank lace!)

Good work Cobden! :eusa_clap I am interested to know how it came about - did you start out with a couple of original BOAC items and work up from there or did you start from scratch?

As for the Fleet Air Arm - you are a better man than I, Gunga Din! Why is everything so complicated with the Senior Service? I attempted to avoid all the convolutions with my simplified account because trying to do it properly just makes my head spin!

 

[pipvh]

The LRDGs and the Invasion of Crete have always interested me because of my grandfather. I've also been interested in the Greek partisans for a long time, and of course the Battle of Britain. The next serious bit of non work-related research I have planned, though, is going to be LRDG-focused.

 

[Fletch]

Pre-.


"Air Demonstration, Mitchel Field, May 1938." Click to enlarge.

 

[MisterCairo]

I've always been interested in those theatres my father served in - Italy, North Africa, Greece and Iraq. I get funny looks from people when I mention his service in Iraq - an infantryman serving with the RAF (Iraqi Levies). As he grew up in Baghdad during the British mandate, he spoke arabic, and served as aide de camp to an officer. The British forces and the levies were there in case Germany made a run for middle east oil fields.

In North Africa he was a Bren gun carrier crew commander for several months. In Italy, his unit moved up the east coast of the boot. In Greece near the end of the war, his unit was part of the British occupation forces after the Nazi withdrawal, but saw action against communist resistance forces during the Greek civil war.

Pics to follow when I get some time...

 

[Speedbird]

Mr Cairo,

Have you got pics of your Dad in Baghdad? My RAF grandad I mentioned above (from the Desert Airforce) was sent to Baghdad a couple of times - I think for leave (R n R) mainly. Like you, people look slightly confused when I mention Iraq and WW2 in the same sentence. Of course, British involvement there pre-dates even WW2. It was a beautiful place, full of history and strategically important before you know who and what ruined it.

 

[Cobden]

Cobden, speaking of the FAA: part of a research project I'm on involves trying to figure out what the "standard airgroups" of the various RN aircraft carriers was at various times. Can you recommend any references? (I know about "Carrier Ops of WWII", but can't find a copy anywhere west of the Atlantic to peruse.)

I'm afraid I can't help...dug through all my references and, whilst I could probably find the airgroups on certain aircraft carriers at certain times, I don't have a comprehensive list. As you may have gathered, the RN has a strange tradition of making things as damnably complex as possible and it wouldn't suprise me if they worked out a way of making something as simple as that as complicated as possible

Good work Cobden! I am interested to know how it came about - did you start out with a couple of original BOAC items and work up from there or did you start from scratch?

Started from scratch, though I was extremely lucky and managed to collect all the bits and pieces I needed within a couple of months, mainly (and thankfully!) from vendors who didn't know what they were selling (naturally, I told them what they had sold after I had committed what was usually daylight robbery [angel]). It came about simply due to a one line reference in one of my books about the ATA being under BOAC control, followed by brain thinking "were BOAC around during WWII?" and a determination to find out more about them - and when I discovered that they did as much as they did I felt determined to put an impression together (I have a strange and expensive tendency to try and seek out interesting and obscure things. The next on the list is Indian Auxiliary regiments, probably the Calcutta Scottish or the Ouhd and Rohilkhand Railway Battalion, because they have fantastically odd names)

 

[Speedbird]

I'm afraid I can't help...dug through all my references and, whilst I could probably find the airgroups on certain aircraft carriers at certain times, I don't have a comprehensive list. As you may have gathered, the RN has a strange tradition of making things as damnably complex as possible and it wouldn't suprise me if they worked out a way of making something as simple as that as complicated as possible



Started from scratch, though I was extremely lucky and managed to collect all the bits and pieces I needed within a couple of months, mainly (and thankfully!) from vendors who didn't know what they were selling (naturally, I told them what they had sold after I had committed what was usually daylight robbery [angel]). It came about simply due to a one line reference in one of my books about the ATA being under BOAC control, followed by brain thinking "were BOAC around during WWII?" and a determination to find out more about them - and when I discovered that they did as much as they did I felt determined to put an impression together (I have a strange and expensive tendency to try and seek out interesting and obscure things. The next on the list is Indian Auxiliary regiments, probably the Calcutta Scottish or the Ouhd and Rohilkhand Railway Battalion, because they have fantastically odd names)

I really wish you hadn't told said vendors at all ... ignorance is bliss!

I like your reasoning for the obscure ... there are some fantastically odd names indeed! It does tend to complicate things though ... :eusa_doh:

 

[Diamondback]

Gotcha, Cobden, USN seems to be the same way--I've only gotten as far as I have with their carriers by slogging through week after week of reports about what aircraft each installation and ship had aboard. I think admirals get their kicks by being a pain in the butt to anyone who's not one of them...

 

[Speedbird]

^^^^ it's job creation ....jobs for the boys... if it wasn't so complicated why would it need so many senior rank jobs to 'manage' it ... it's still prevalent today!!!

 

[The Lonely Navigator]

The Battle of the Atlantic - but more specifically, the North Atlantic (from the start of the war) and Operation Paukenschlag/Drumbeat with the U-Boat attacks off the U.S. East and Gulf Coasts.

I have read a bit on the South Atlantic - but, there isn't much that holds my interest there.

 

[Silver Dollar]

Since most of the veterans I knew over the years were in the 8th and 9th AF, the ETO gets the lion's share of my attention. On the other hand, I spent 5 years at Hickam AFB on Oahu and got a good soaking in early WWII and PTO history. Still my attention always goes back to the ETO.

 

[1961MJS]

Hi

My Dad was in the 17th Weather Squadron in the South Pacific, Fiji, Wallis Island, and Guadalcanal. One neighbor was in New Guinea in the Artillery. I don't know where the other neighbor was, but he fought the Japanese. He has either two Purple hearts and a Silver star, or the reverse. A fourth neighbor flew Corsairs in the Pacific.

I have a bunch of Dad's pictures that I'll post later. His common everyday uniform was Khaki pants, a Marine Corps white T-shirt, and a Marine Corps Pitch helmet (no globe etc). USAAF didn't do well on the uniforms, but they got him something to trade with the Marines. lol

Oh, as of 09 April 2010, all 4 are still alive. One still works, at a funeral home.

Later

 

[Viola]

I had uncles stationed in Europe and in Asia. I had a great-uncle at Normandy (who lived the rest of his life with a steel plate in his head) and an uncle who was a belly-gunner, shot down twice, and lived. And one grandfather annoyed to be stationed in Greenland.

Which theatre is no question though. We're Jews. Europe was the everything to my family, even to the family members posted in other theatres.

I originally started researching WWII because I was told things like "the Jews didn't fight back" "they went like lambs" "exterminated" etc.

So I started researching both Jewish groups in Europe, Warsaw Ghetto, the Bielski brothers, etc. and also the Jewish servicemen of the regular Allied forces, like all my great-uncles and my grandfather who was old enough.

 

[StetsonHomburg]

Panzergruppe Afrika/Panzerarmee Afrika and the U-boot arm in the atlantic. :essen: