WWII Jacket Questions

[ufguy73]

Hello All,

I am a brand new member of the forum and looking forward to many interesting discussions.

I found this forum through several internet searches, relating to makers of authentic WWII style jackets - I quickly found an overwhelming number of highly informative and useful discussions on the forum. The wealth of knowledge on this subject, here, is truly astounding!

I do still, however, have some specific questions that I have not been able to quite find specific answers to - and am hoping that experts here would be kind enough to provide some guidance.

I am on the verge of obtaining my first WWII style jacket and have pretty much narrowed it down to an A-2, B-6, or 'German'/MC style jacket. In order to help finalize my decision, would anyone be able to share some thoughts on:

- Which of the above three styles would be the most useful in, lets say, 50-60 degree weather. Assume some moderate physical acvtivity (i.e. street walking). Will the B-6 be too warm for this? Will the A-2 be enough? Perhaps the German jacket would be perfect, as it is lined but nothing as warm as shearling?

- Just how much trimmer would you say the German style jackets are than an A-2 (i.e. any sort of belly and you are out of luck)? Unfortunately, I am nowhere near as fit as I was, even 3 years ago. I gather the Hartmann is even more fitted than their generalized model, but how much more fittted are each of these compared to an A-2?

- If I go the A-2 route, I have it pretty much narrowed down (though, not specifically, the contract yet - probably a Rough Wear or Dubow) to Eastman or Realy McCoy. Eventually, I would love to try the Goodwear but I need the jacket somewhat urgently and 12 mos wont work for me.

- Re: Real McCoy's, what is the difference between the NZ and Japan makers? Is it the same company and designs, just one manufactured in NZ and the other Japan?
Is one preferred vs. the other in terms of quality, fit, authenticity, etc?

- I found a plethora of threads, relating to the merits of these makers (and a host of others, of course) but many of the threads were dated and it seems that updates
have occured to the fit and design - as it stands, today, is there any type of consensus on the accuracy and/or quality of Eastman vs. RM?

- Obviously, if I go the 'German' route, it seems the route to go would be Eastman. However, I have detected at least some slight criticsm of their 'Luftwaffe' jackets.
What is the cause of this? Are their 'German' jackets not demonstrative of the same standards of quality and quthenticity as their A-2's, which seemed to be very well
respected on the forum? Is the Hartmann considered more accurate compared to their more generalized 'Luftwaffe' jacket?

Those are the pressing questions for me, at least right now!

Any and all thoughts on the above would be greatly appreciated! As I say, this seems a great forum with a lot of love for an area that I seem to be developing a budding interst in.

Many Thanks,
Alex

 

[archbury918]

Welcome to the Club Alex...and soon the "sickness" of jacket collecting.
My first advice is to slow down.....!
Yes, the many jackets are great fun to wear and collect. They also represent history too. I find that combination unique and even more intriguing.

50-60 degree weather if thats your norm median temp might be a bit warm for any jacket. I'd put the shearling on hold til you greet 20's and 30's on a regular basis.

You seem to have read and answered many of your own questions through thorough research here and perhaps the VLJ forum.
Get an A-2. They are plentiful in regards to second hand for starters and much more forgiving to the physique than the other types mentioned.

John's Goodwear site gives complete descriptions as to cut and fit of the various contracts. His photos wearing them are head and shoulders over Aero and ELC in that regard. RMNZ and Buzz Rickson may be higher end and slimmer cuts as well. You may want to pass them for now.

You'll find your help here with the many great contributors.....so again... slow n easy.....

Archbury

 

[Foster]

I find the A-2 to be quite comfortable in 50-60 degree weather. The B-6 will be too warm, as Archbury mentioned in the above post.

It's hard to go wrong with an A-2. Stylish, classic, and timeless. Plentiful supply and reasonable deals can be found on pre-owned models. And when you are ready to try something different, there's more people wanting to buy an A-2 than there are wanting the B-6 or the German jacket.

 

[Edward]

Can't really comment on the heat thing as that's different for everyone. The B6 will be warm, though, and not wearable for as much of the year, possibly, as something lighter - all depending upon personal comfort and climate where you live. The A2 is stylistically flexible, and looks great if you want a classic, military inspired look. They are the most popular / common of the military designs - which may or may not be a good thing, according to personal opinion. The Luftwaffe styles are worth considering if you want something that has no military connotations. Most of the leather jackets worn by Luftwaffe boys were private purchase civilian styles. Predominantly, as I understand it, German and French cycling jackets. The Eastman Hartmann is a good example of that style; another alternative would be an Aero Thirties halfbelt. Civilian jackets that, unless worn with all the other elements of a repro Luftwaffe uniform, will never be likely to be interpreted as a military jacket. The Luftwaffe boys seem to have pretty much all preferred their jackets high and tight - the photos don't seem to have quite the same variation in fits that you see in photos of USAAF boys with their A2s. That doesn't indicate that the USAAF preferences varied, necessarily - much more likely to be purely the vagaries of issued clothing as opposed to pp. You can imagine a flyboy who has to pay for his jacket himself will a] be much fussier about fit and b] have the opportunity to specify something better fitting (at least, to his personal preferences) than whatever the quartermaster throws at him.

For an only jacket, I'd personally avoid any sort of military markings on it, i.e. patches, noseart, etc - makes it much more flexible. Also, the same applies if you think you may or may not stick with it - seems to me that a plain A2 from one of the named repro houses has a greater resale value than one with all those bits on it.

And when you are ready to try something different, there's more people wanting to buy an A-2 than there are wanting the B-6 or the German jacket.

Uhm.... are you implying that one might feel the need to only own one jacket? Surely you know this place better than that....

 

[Foster]

Uhm.... are you implying that one might feel the need to only own one jacket? Surely you know this place better than that....

Well, it always starts with just one... much like the avalanche may begin with just one pebble...

 

[Justhandguns]

Hello All,

I am on the verge of obtaining my first WWII style jacket and have pretty much narrowed it down to an A-2, B-6, or 'German'/MC style jacket. In order to help finalize my decision, would anyone be able to share some thoughts on:

- Which of the above three styles would be the most useful in, lets say, 50-60 degree weather. Assume some moderate physical acvtivity (i.e. street walking). Will the B-6 be too warm for this? Will the A-2 be enough? Perhaps the German jacket would be perfect, as it is lined but nothing as warm as shearling?

- Just how much trimmer would you say the German style jackets are than an A-2 (i.e. any sort of belly and you are out of luck)? Unfortunately, I am nowhere near as fit as I was, even 3 years ago. I gather the Hartmann is even more fitted than their generalized model, but how much more fittted are each of these compared to an A-2?

- If I go the A-2 route, I have it pretty much narrowed down (though, not specifically, the contract yet - probably a Rough Wear or Dubow) to Eastman or Realy McCoy. Eventually, I would love to try the Goodwear but I need the jacket somewhat urgently and 12 mos wont work for me.

- Re: Real McCoy's, what is the difference between the NZ and Japan makers? Is it the same company and designs, just one manufactured in NZ and the other Japan?
Is one preferred vs. the other in terms of quality, fit, authenticity, etc?

- I found a plethora of threads, relating to the merits of these makers (and a host of others, of course) but many of the threads were dated and it seems that updates
have occured to the fit and design - as it stands, today, is there any type of consensus on the accuracy and/or quality of Eastman vs. RM?

- Obviously, if I go the 'German' route, it seems the route to go would be Eastman. However, I have detected at least some slight criticsm of their 'Luftwaffe' jackets.
What is the cause of this? Are their 'German' jackets not demonstrative of the same standards of quality and quthenticity as their A-2's, which seemed to be very well
respected on the forum? Is the Hartmann considered more accurate compared to their more generalized 'Luftwaffe' jacket?

I think for 50-60F, an A-2 is the best. B-6 is probably a bit overkilled. It is also quite difficult to tell whether the jackets will be fit or not. For A-2, people tend to go for their true sizes to get a tight and neat WW2 look. I have not tried on the Eastman Hartmann so I really cannot tell you. Most A-2 experts around here will tell you that if you want a more relax cutting with better arm movement and so on, you go for the later A-2 contracts, i.e. 42-XXXX, as the cutting is a bit more generous. Like the previous people have said, check it out on the Goodwear website.

Real McCoy Japan apparently is a different company from the RMNZ. RM Japan produces their jackets in Japan while the RMNZ used to be their factory over there, long story anyway. You can also try the Few, also in NZ. But I think if you really want a quick off the shelf quality jacket, Eastman would be your best bet. They are authentic to the original contracts at a lower price than Goodwear in the US. One thing to remember that is, Eastman A-2s tend to be a bit thinner as they claim that war time hides were not heavy. If you have money to burn, you certainly won't regret getting an RM Japan jacket, they hold their value very well in the 2nd hand market which is a plus. Anyway, good luck with your venturing into the vintage flight jacket world.

 

[Asienizen]

I hate to be part of the amen chorus, but for a first time flight jacket - get an A2. There are plenty of options, starting at a generic entry level model, to specific production runs from various manufacturers. Therefore you will be able to shop around, balancing your desires for design, and price. It's not as distinctive as other designs, but that means it will be appropriate for just about every clothing style or situation. You can get plenty of good used Eastmans, Lost Worlds, Aeros, etc., on the Bay; or you can get one new. As far as 50-60 degrees, I think an A2 will do you fine; any fleece jacket will be MUCH too warm for that. I personally like the "German" jackets (which are not necessarily German) but the choices of manufacturers are limited, and it may not be the best first-choice for an aviator jacket. Just my opinion.
And welcome to the asylum.

 

[archbury918]

Another consideration is shipping/ Customs fees


Since you are also in the US, getting a 2nd hand Eastman or Aero from GreedBay or a fellow Yank member will save you a few bucks as well.

 

[Jeff M]

One other thing to consider....
if you are not "spot on" "standard" size, many of those non bi-wing back old military designs tend to let you know it.
A2's being the classic case.
I'm by no means "off sized" for todays world, but a 5'8" 185# 44" chest relatively muscular build was apparently not that common in the USAAF back in the 1940's.
All of the "off the rack" A2's I've owned/tried on ..including Eastman...tended to bind across the back/choke the arm pit on me. If they were comfortable across the back/shoulders and arms, they tended to be too long in the sleeves/torso. I ended up rarely wearing them.
Took awhile to realize that for me a comfortable A2 for me meant one custom made to my measurements. This is MUCH more of a factor in how they fit than which contract they are.
Good Wear custom makes all their jackets to fit the customer. If it doesn't fit, send it back for a re-do.
Eastman offers custom made jackets...but no return.
I don't believe The Few or Real McCoy offers custom fit jackets.

(Re some of your other questions.....I find 50-60 degrees OK for my A2's..a bit on the cool side. These jackets weren't designed for warmth.
A long sleeve shirt/layering helps..but you need the room in the jacket for the latter.
Thin lined fleece is good around those temps...if your body metabolism doesn't run hot/you won't be doing heavy work. Thick fleece best for 40's/below.
Eastman Luftwaffe jacket is very nice...I own one. The mole skin lining is very nice....good for 50-60 degree weather. The metal buckle at the bottom gets to be a bit of a nuisance.
I wear my A2's more.)

 

[bn1966]

I'm going to add yet another "get an A2". Enjoying the hottest summer for a while here in the UK & as usual it's my Eastman A2 that's getting the most wear (tough but light).

 

[Brettafett]

Hi there.
Second much of whats been said.

I recon an A-2 is a good bet for a first jacket. I would get some samples from all the top manufacturers and compare the leathers and see what strikes you as nice.
Compare thickness, colour and what you feel suits you the best.

John Chapman did a wonderful job for all of us with his detailed descriptions on his website. Right there one can already narrow down which contracts may be better suited to ones body, frame and style.

Have never owned a Luftwaffe styled jacket. Considered it though…
A Luftwaffe jacket, could be created. Besides ELCs version, one could look at a Half Belt, Roadster or Cafe Racer and modify it, as has been said. There are numerous pics on the net of vintage German flyboy jackets, they were certainly mostly civilian jackets and all seem different, so you couldn't go wrong in making one up. The civilian styling may be practical… to a point.
Perhaps better to leave it until you've got a better idea of what style you fit better into.

Any jacket can be quite trim or roomier. Depends on size, style and personal preference. Thats why many of us have gone through a number of jackets to date. Size experiments and changing style preferences…
Also depends on how you prefer the jacket to fit.
War time photos show a gamut of variations, however, as has been said, the German jacket seem to have been preferred very neat fitting.

IMO. Comparing repro RWs… RMNZ seemed to have trimmer jackets… Eastman has 'updated' their patterns over the years, so not sure about their current jackets, but my RWs circa 2005/6 were a touch roomy and suffered shoulder-droop. Going down a size did not help.

Bare in mind the NZ and Japanese jackets. Sizing can be different from jackets made in the US or EU and you don't want to be returning a jacket with the adding costs of postage fees to boot. So be as specific as you can with your sizing and fit requirements. And get leather samples… they can vary so much.

Have you considered a mid to top range A-2 to start? There are a couple of makers on the scene offering some nice looking jackets and quality to boot.
Bill Kelso and Aerial Star's jackets are worth looking into.
Also Noble House…. They make some interesting Luftwaffe jackets also.

And having owned Goodwear, Eastman, Aero, McCoys, Lost Worlds and a few others, I can say that the difference is arguably in the finer details. But the price difference can be huge.
I'd wager that after a year of wearing and loving a jacket, you would be hard pressed to tell a mid-top range jacket and a 'whats considered' top range jacket… Unless you were a detail-fanatic (which some us tend to be or be becoming .
But its really not necessary. One of nicest looking A-2s I ever saw was an old Willis & Geiger repro. It just really looked the part. fantastic grain and leather colour….

Good point about import costs… Importing a jacket from NZ or Japan? May as well order a Goodwear and get a mid range A-2 beater from somewhere in the US (Ebay?) to tide you over (Check out Cockpit, Gibson & Barnes, Flightjacket, Aerial Star, etc…).

Good luck and prepare to get sucked in

 

[rocketeer]

I'm going to add yet another "get an A2". Enjoying the hottest summer for a while here in the UK & as usual it's my Eastman A2 that's getting the most wear (tough but light).

Wearing a leather jacket in this weather? You must be posing, the only way I have worn a leather jacket is on my bike, then I have taken it off when stopped for any more than 10 mins. And thats in the evenings!
Johnny T

 

[Edward]

I find the A-2 to be quite comfortable in 50-60 degree weather. The B-6 will be too warm, as Archbury mentioned in the above post.

It's hard to go wrong with an A-2. Stylish, classic, and timeless. Plentiful supply and reasonable deals can be found on pre-owned models. And when you are ready to try something different, there's more people wanting to buy an A-2 than there are wanting the B-6 or the German jacket.

Well, it always starts with just one... much like the avalanche may begin with just one pebble...

Ha! Yes. It's like financial Jenga...

I'm going to add yet another "get an A2". Enjoying the hottest summer for a while here in the UK & as usual it's my Eastman A2 that's getting the most wear (tough but light).

You're hardier than I am if you can wear leather much at all in this heat. I hate the Summer at the best of times, but this year has been unbearable. Sooner it's gone the better. The worst of it was that Winter ran so late we didn't even get a pleasant Spring before this current beastliness set in. I hope we get an Autumn.

 

[Brettafett]

Just wanted to try clarify about mid range and mid top range etc... IMO... I think, perhaps, theres only really Goodwear at the very top for detail (I have read the Japanese are also uber fanatic, but have not owned a Japanese A-2, so can't comment too much on them. But some pics I've seen the hides look a bit off, colours and sheen etc.. again just an opinion).
Most of the other makers are all what I would call mid to top of the range, excellent quality hides and material, authenticity, detail, etc... Some approaching John's jackets, some not quite as much, depending on opinion.
However their pricing doesn't always follow that, can be a $400 difference.
Then the mid range are the makers of decent quality, but not too detail specific and not as many options, more basic hides, more generic stuff.

 

[bretron]

For a first time A2, go used. You should be able to score an Aero or Kelso for around $400, an ELC or RMNZ for around $500, or a GW for around $600-800.

It'll probably take you a jacket or two to get the fit "right" but that's part of the fun IMO.

If you're a slim build, pick up Tito's sz 42 38 Aero. Thing is beautiful and been fs for about a year now!!!

 

[bn1966]

A2: Early morning & evening (Wiltshire evenings), on the scooter & occasionally in the old SAAB convertible (tatty hood down). In the heat of the day..no way! Purchased a couple of Nylon L2Bs for this summer that have seen virtually no use at all (sweat traps). Posing..yes definitely!

 

[Worf]

Good advice all round. Go used till you find out JUST what you like. It'll also let you know what you want in a jacket fit wise. If you like it, keep it, if not put it pack in "the stream".

Worf

 

[Sloan1874]

Ha! Yes. It's like financial Jenga...



You're hardier than I am if you can wear leather much at all in this heat. I hate the Summer at the best of times, but this year has been unbearable. Sooner it's gone the better. The worst of it was that Winter ran so late we didn't even get a pleasant Spring before this current beastliness set in. I hope we get an Autumn.

I've kept the A-2 running since June, but then again, even though it's been damn fine weather, up here what passes for summer is relative...

 

[ButteMT61]

I've kept the A-2 running since June, but then again, even though it's been damn fine weather, up here what passes for summer is relative...

96º here, and I'm going to the Hollywood Bowl tonight where I can wear a jacket! Very exciting lol

 

[Sloan1874]

60F day time, if that. And it's chucking down. I will be switching back to the Dustbowl if it keeps raining like this - saves jumping into the shower with it on!