wool top hats

[Edward]

Is a wool top hat worth bothering with? I'm looking at the possibility of a grey top hat for day formal wear at present (to go with grey tails, of course). In general and going by my experience of fedoras over the last couple of years I'd much prefer to have a fur felt, but it seems that I can buy the wool version for around GBP100 less... Of all the greys I've seen, there's a less pronounced difference on look - is it nevertheless worth gonig the extra for the fur? I'm unlikely to wear it with any great regularity, which makes me reluctant to spend more than I need to, but equally it makes me inclined to invest in one good hat that will last...

 

[indycop]

If you are cool with it then thats all that matters because most nonhat wearers don't know the difference. And that 100 you save might get you another hat you will get a lot of use out of!

 

[Nick D]

I've never seen a wool top hat that even comes close to a fur or silk hat. But maybe I've been looking at the wrong wool hats?

 

[tandmark]

Hi,

As it happens, I own a wool-felt top hat. It was crafted by a hatmaker who primarily markets their work to 19th Century re-enactors. The workmanship is completely acceptable, although the quality of the ribbon is a little lower than I'd have preferred. The cost, about US$75, excluding shipping and handling.

During the week just before Christmas, I put some winter greenery into the bow and wore the hat to work. It certainly functioned well for the season.

In fact, I liked the hat well enough to feel confident about ordering a campaign hat from the same vendor (AzRA Historical Resources, a.k.a. ushist.com, a.k.a. Pair-O-Dice).

Would a grey version of my Pair-O-Dice wool-felt topper, or a similar hat from a British maker, function well with grey tails? It doesn't match the color of either of my tuxes, so that's something I can't vouch for directly. But I suspect that it would work well, unless you plan to wear it to an event where most of the attendees are hat hobbyists or wardrobe antiquarians.

Obviously, if you have any way to try on the hat before you buy it, you'll be more likely to be satisfied with whatever you decide to do about this particular purchase decision. But a savings of £100 will do a lot to soften any pangs of buyer's remorse if you're unable to try-before-you-buy.

Cheers,
Mark

 

[metropd]

NO-Peroid. Unless you are looking for a novelty item for "fancy-dress". A wool top hat is nothing more than a costume prop. The reason I say this is not only is it clearly not the real thing but when you wear a real silk top hat around just about every person will know it's a real top hat simply beacuse of the texture.

I wore my silk plush top hat for my birthday in San Diego and random people would come up to me and say wow, I've never seen a real top hat before. They would ask my about its history. I would walk downtown and it would stop traffic, people were blown away and very impressed, I remind you this is Southern California! You would be doing a great diservice to England's satorial tradion if you were to purchase a wool one. I reccomend you you go on ebay and by a silk plush or beaver top hat for a bit more.

 

[metropd]

If you are cool with it then thats all that matters because most nonhat wearers don't know the difference. And that 100 you save might get you another hat you will get a lot of use out of!

When I wear it the FAR majority of people can see the difference. I usually would not give the benifit of the doubt to the average american on the street when it comes to this but when they see the real thing the far majority and yes average person was able to tell. It is because of the silk plush applied. Now many people think its some fur when it could be silk or silk when it could be beaver but they know it is the real thing.

 

[indycop]

He said it would not get much use.

 

[metropd]

Well if I were to do it I would do it right but thats just me.

 

[indycop]

I would not throw money away on a hat I would not get use out of. And I would not want someone who might want to be a hat wearer be shunned because his top hat or any other hat is made out of wool as opposed to top of the line material, just my .2 cent.[huh]

 

[metropd]

I would not throw money away on a hat I would not get use out of. And I would not want someone who might want to be a hat wearer be shunned because his top hat or any other hat is made out of wool as opposed to top of the line material, just my .2 cent.[huh]

Touche

 

[Edward]

Ohhhh..... I think we'll just leave that can of worms down over there.......

The main issue I've seen with wool top hats is that a lot of the ones I've encountered simply aren't up to much quality-wise - use of the cheaper material is one of a number of ways of keeping to a budget. I've considered a decent wool one if I could find it, though, on the basis that the fur greys don't have the sheen that the silk or beaver does in black. I've been watching eBay, but alas there's been nothing on there that has gone for less than GBP100 in a fur grey in a long time - I just can't justify that sort of expenditure on something that will get worn once in a blue moon when I'm in formal daywear. I did, however, discover yesterday evening that HatsDirect have a furfelt top hat by Akubra, and they will do moonstone grey as a special order. At the price of a Fed Deluxe, that seems realistic...

 

[Topper]

Wool tends to have a "mottled" brab look, fur has a nicer nap to the felt.

The question here i would ask is why "grey"? If it is to go with grey tails you mention then the next question is why grey tails?

Grey is tradtional with Royal Ascot. Thus the rest of the time one should avoid using grey tails.

Even if you want to wear grey tails then you can also wear a Black Silk topper ( See my Avatar)

The Ideal hat to find is a Grey Silk plush Top Hat, which were made in grey many many moons ago. Locks would even (in years gone past) "keep" them stored away for their customers to be brought out once a year for Ascot!
to stop customers from being tempted to use them at the wrong time

Unfortunately grey Silk is not readily available, black is, and thus only fur felt or wool felt is in available grey.

As such I would ask what functions would you be going to when wearing it. And decide then if wool would be inappropriate ( as you mention budget).

 

[Spatterdash]

Optimo does a decent fur felt top, and the clearwater hat company makes a more traditional victorian bell.

http://www.clearwaterhats.com/victorian1.htm

Of course, the best of the best is silk-top-hats.com, but those are the real deal in plush silk on card forms and my, oh my, look at the exchange rate today!

Oh, and a reason for grey may be historic costuming, from before Edwardian clothing ettiquette, such as the early western expansion or the gold rush, even dickensian christmas caroling!

 

[Topper]

Agree Grey Toppers were fashionable in many periods in history, as was beige brown, blue and may other colours - I even have a very nice "White Silk Plush" in my display.

Grey became more common to wear post WWII - plush from France was quite hard to get ( not surprisingly!) during the war and post war years, so whilst to the "de rigeur" for silk, thus Grey felt became more popular and considered acceptable to all.

 

[Spatterdash]

You have a white silk plush?

Topper, too cool!

 

[Topper]

Some of the collection....

White Plush ( Moss Bros) and also Mauve Topper ( Herbert Johnson)

Silk Plush Boater

Silk Plush Ladies Riding hats late19th/early20th century (left) and (right) 1970ies saddle seat.

Tan Felt Toppers Mid to late 19th Cent.

 

[Wolfmanjack]

Fantastic collection, Topper!

You are clearly the FL's resident expert on top hats. Please, can you offer us an explanation of the differences between the various types of silk top hats, e.g., silk plush, collapsible satin silk, etc.

 

[Topper]

Silk plush/ hatters plush: is a Silk Velvet ( also known as Lyon Velvet) with long silk nap pile and traditionally a cotton back. Best hats come in this form and cover a calico shell. ( Though other shells have been used including, felt, wicker frame, and cork!)

Best plush came from France, 1st Silk hats around 1760ies from Florance. In the UK first made in 1790ies, Became popular 1830 onwards globally. Replaces beaver felt as mainstay in hats.

A lot of people in US colloquially still call silk plush hats "Beaver hats" in he US or "Moleskin hats" in Scandinavia and Northern Europe despite being made of of silk plush.


Melusine: A polished fur felt, use to give a highly polished "look" of a polished silk, but is actually fur felt. This is the fabric the best modern Toppers that are still being made are available in,


Collapsible hats:

The "top hat" variant became most common from around 1837 when Gibus patented his invention upon which most collapsible hats are now made. ( there were a few different designs by differnt people before him including one that folded sideways across the crown!)

Collapsible Opera hats were made of either:
1) Silk Plush - this had problems with the repeated opening and shutting so was not used for long.
2) Ribbed silk/ silk grosgrain - Silk made with a rippled effect
3) Silk Satin - "Satin" is actully a form of "weaving", not strictly a material. traditionally the most common silk a shiney silk like a dupion or "satin" weave

Except for antique Opera hats the opera hats that are still manufactureed are NOT "silk" as standard ( unless bespoke made and silk requested) . I have seen some places use terms satin silk ( not silk satin) in their description but i would double check it see it is really silk! as merely in the "weave" of satin, and in silk "style" but not actual silk.. ( imaging the same situation as calling Californian Sparkling Wine ... Champagne - looks like it, may taste like it , but it isn't!)

 

[Wolfmanjack]

Thanks for the thorough reply, Topper. I'm so glad I asked.

 

[Tom-n-Perris]

I ran across this article from my back issues of a magazine I receive called "Whispering Wind". I thought it would be of some interest since it mentions several points associated with hats in general and specifically Top Hats.

Hats are like potato chips, You just can't have one.