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Will we ever see a return to more formal clothes?

Edward

Bartender
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25,074
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London, UK
I've been very lucky on that score, actually. Maybe it's because I only teach postgraduates and final year undergrads who have matured a bit; I'm sure some first years probably do go dolally, especially as here in the UK it is still the case that most of them will have worn a uniform until leaving school, so it will be a novelty to them to wear their "own" clothes to a class. I have however never had a student show up looking like they've just fallen out of bed - even at a 9am class on a Friday.

Edward, I have seen firms with no dress code, one of them is the one of the largest corporations in the world.

I'm sure, however, their are limits, albeit unspoken. I mean, they wouldn't permit someone to show up in a "Jesus was a ****" T shirt, I presume.

Its as casual as you can get and I've been in meetings with fairly high level people and it was all jeans with some wearing t-shirts. I have no problem with it and its makes traveling a hec of alot easier packing casual clothes compared to suits. Of course for non business functions you can do whatever you want, but we will never see a return to more formal wear in business, especially wearing ties.

In purely utilitarian terms, sure, a tie is superfluous, but its going out of fashion doesn't mean it will disappear forever. Hells, if 'utilitarian' was all that mattered, we'd all be wearing multipocketed jumpsuits at all times nowadays, and the cut / colour / features would never change. Even in the business world, fashions change, things come and go, so I wouldn't rule out the tie on that basis. If it does increasingly become less common, however, it will be interesting to see what that does to shirts. Shirt collars have a symbiotic relationship with ties; for many years we have seen here n the UK the absolute ubiquity of the spread collar. In the high street it has been all but impossible for nigh on a decade at least to buy a shirt with a double cuff that has any other kind of collar. At the same time, ties have become very think and very long, resulting in the sort of huge knots that fill up the space between the wings of a spread collar (think David Beckham or other identikit premiership soccer player and his tie knots the size of his own head). If the tie changes significant or goes altogether, I would imagine some significant alterations in the typical shirt collar will appear. Maybe a spearpoint with the blades tight together if no tie is to be worn, or a return to the loop collar, cut to be worn flat and without a tie. Maybe even the grandad shirt would become the norm?

After being business casual for the past ten years, wearing a tie now seems incredibly bizarre, but I guess I've had my fill of it having to wear a tie everyday from first grade onward, hated it from day one.

Sounds a lot like the old notion of GIs coming back from the war and not wanting to wear hats. I've seen this before - and folks who go the other way. It takes it to be stupid hot in the Summer before I eschew a jacket; my feeling more comfortable with a jacket on I put down largely to having worn a blazer so long at school - the familiar, and also the utilitarian (keeps the sun off, nothing worse than a tan; pockets!).

The majority of people will naturally choose casual over formal, especially if you work in an office everyday and that pretty much sums it up now that people have a choice.

You're probably right that the majority will choose casual if it is left up to them. It probably always was the case in many respects - the difference being that nowadays the bar is set so low for "casual". I wouldn't be so sure that it won't change in the business world, though. Fashions do change with differing generations. The Boomers rebelled against "the suits", and in turn to many of us in Generation X (and moreso those that followed), Steve Jobs doesn't look "cool" at all in his jeans and poloneck, but just like a sad, middle-aged man (albeit a very rich, sad, middle-aged man) who thinks he looks cool. Fair play to him, he is now rich and successful enough that he can dress as he wants, but don't anybody expect me to be any more impressed with the smug, iLifestyle and increasingly lesser products he peddles because he's "cool" and wears jeans, not a stuffy suit. [huh]

In the business world, I think things may well change in short order. Not necessarily in the (so often, rather self-consciously) casual IT industry, but in the corporate sectors. Casual Friday was rapidly abandoned by the corporate business sector here in London at the end of the nineties. Given the financial situation here with everyone hoping to hold on to their jobs through the next few years of economic problems, I see people everywhere upping their game. It may not be what they personally prefer, however, it is the case that in all types of business you are judged by how you dress, and in most that still means a traditional collar / tie / suit. I really don't think it's going to go anywhere fast. I'd find it hilarious if there was a backlash in the IT community against the uber-casual uniform that has been de rigeur there for so long, though I don't imagine it will happen under this generation of management. Still, all it takes is for one of the giants to go that way, and they'll all fairly quickly follow suit (well, apart from Apple, ha...).
 

Lokar

A-List Customer
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I'm a computer programmer (or well, a student) and I wear at least a tie if not a suit when studying whenever I can. It puts me in a professional frame of mind & helps me concentrate.
 

rue

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13,319
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California native living in Arizona.
You handled that very well Edward :)


You know.... my grandfather (a business man) wore a Brooks Brothers suit every single day of his life, unless he was working in the yard and then it was a pair of slacks with a button up. When I look around today at older men (about 80 or so) and see them in track suits and scruffy jeans I just shake my head. As much as I love and miss him, I'm glad he's not around to see what people look like these days. I truly hope that some how some way, people will start caring about the way they look and take pride in what they wear like he did.

I mean really.... if people are wearing pajamas out, what's next? Birthday suits?? :eeek:
 
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Edward

Bartender
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London, UK
You handled that very well Edward :)


You know.... my grandfather (a business man) wore a Brooks Brothers suit every single day of his life, unless he was working in the yard and then it was a pair of slacks with a button up. When I look around today at older men (about 80 or so) and see them in track suits and scruffy jeans I just shake my head. As much as I love and miss him, I'm glad he's not around to see what people look like these days. I truly hope that some how some way, people will start caring about the way they look and take pride in what they wear like he did.

I mean really.... if people are wearing pajamas out, what's next? Birthday suits?? :eeek:

Thank-you.

I suppose it comes down to what that generation prefers. My grandparents, born in the 10s and 20s, were not by today's standards casual dressers. "old people" clothes will morph into sports wear and the likes by now, I imagine, as the Boomers and later reach that age. At some point there will be a backlash, though, in fashion terms. When I was fifteen and for a brief period wore a swastika, a large part of the point was the clash of same with the expectations of older generations. It's far from inconceivable that a collar and tie could have such a cachet at some future point. Many of the boomers seem to react as if it was as charged as a swastika - maybe for them it is. It's like anything else, though - getting to wear jeans everywhere must once upon a time have been rebellious; now it's as conformist as they come. Same thing for ideas of being "rock and roll" - the groupies, smashing hotel rooms, all those things that once upon a time defined the very concept to many just looks really rather tawdry and sad to today's generation. It's all cyclical.
 

rue

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California native living in Arizona.
You're welcome :)

My grandfather was born in 1908. He never owned a pair of jeans and he died in 86.
I see what you're saying though. I guess they did/do see it as a rebellion. As some unnamed lounger said... when the hippies die off, that is when things might go back to the way they were, but not until then. (not an exact quote)
 
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Yeps

Call Me a Cab
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2,456
Location
Philly
I mean really.... if people are wearing pajamas out, what's next? Birthday suits?? :eeek:
[voice = annoying self righteous hippie/hipster] Why not? Don't be such a square dude, I mean, like, people are born naked, and there are like these totally happy people who live in like, jungles, and islands and stuff, that don't wear any clothes at all. Shame is such a construct to keep people enslaved to the corporate clothing manufactures. [/voice]

Same thing for ideas of being "rock and roll" - the groupies, smashing hotel rooms, all those things that once upon a time defined the very concept to many just looks really rather tawdry and sad to today's generation. It's all cyclical.

You know, that wasn't even that new of an idea. Franz Liszt was pretty much a rockstar in his time, and before him the divas of opera, and to an even greater extent, the castrati.
 

rue

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13,319
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California native living in Arizona.
[voice = annoying self righteous hippie/hipster] Why not? Don't be such a square dude, I mean, like, people are born naked, and there are like these totally happy people who live in like, jungles, and islands and stuff, that don't wear any clothes at all. Shame is such a construct to keep people enslaved to the corporate clothing manufactures. [/voice]

:rofl: :rofl:
Sad thing is, I can actually hear someone saying that :p
 
Messages
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Southern California
[voice = annoying self righteous hippie/hipster] Why not? Don't be such a square dude, I mean, like, people are born naked, and there are like these totally happy people who live in like, jungles, and islands and stuff, that don't wear any clothes at all. Shame is such a construct to keep people enslaved to the corporate clothing manufactures. [/voice]
That sounds more like some of the stoners I went to high school with in the 70s than it does any hippie I've ever known. Amusing, but too stereotypical.
 

The Good

Call Me a Cab
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2,361
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California, USA
Another neat leather jacket sighting today on my campus. I was at the math lab, and walked out after I had finished there. A guy and his girlfriend were conversing in the hallway, in Spanish actually. He was wearing a nice medium brown leather jacket, and it looked just a bit distressed, panache, if you'd prefer. It kind of reminded me of the Indiana Jones jacket (or one of the four anyway), in a way, and I even saw another student last week wearing one similar to that. I was walking behind him at the time and almost told him, "Hey, cool jacket," but he seemed pretty occupied and I didn't want to bother him. I've gotta say, I personally like brown leather jackets more than black, but black ones can definitely be cool too. Hmm, maybe my next one will be a lighter shade of brown though, lighter than seal brown (mine is actually dark, almost black), anyway.

But yeah, I think the point of this was to show you all that there are definitely people out there wearing stylish leather jackets. The ones I've seen, they generally owned the look quite well. A good leather jacket sure could do a lot to improve one's style and appearance. There is just something undeniably cool about leather, wouldn't you say?
 
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Covina, Califonia 91722
There is just something undeniably cool about leather, wouldn't you say?

Leather is an extraordinary material. With different animals, dyes and tanning techniques it can come in a wide variety of appearances. It has the reputation for strength and durability. It is the choice where protection is needed such as by motorcyclists. It also has connotations and associations that derive from a shaman magic type of concept as a second skin. Our ancesters would wear animal skins as clothes but also for ritual. On men it usually denotes a rugged manliness, on women it is seen to weave a sensual strength aura. It is the object of fascination by many.

We see it as uniform such as pilot jackets or motorcycle wear or as the costume of rock stars and celebrities looking to make a splash. Leather does make a statement and it is received on the conscious and subconscious level.

Yeah it is pretty cool.
 

Tomasso

Incurably Addicted
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I've always considered leather wear, even in its most elegant form, to be more on the casual side.
 

Edward

Bartender
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25,074
Location
London, UK
You know, that wasn't even that new of an idea. Franz Liszt was pretty much a rockstar in his time, and before him the divas of opera, and to an even greater extent, the castrati.

True. I didn't think the castrati would have quite the same interest in the groupies, though? ;)

I've always considered leather wear, even in its most elegant form, to be more on the casual side.

Mnn. Yea, I' tend to agree. By today's standards, though, I suppose many people in the mainstream might view, say, an Aero halfbelt with collar, tie and slacks the way we round here might view the same outfit save with a blazer, or even a lounge suit. Of all the folks I know in and around my own age, outside of the vintage community, most who don't wear a suit for work are unlikely ever to don one outside of weddings and funerals. To folks like that, a leather jacket in the above stylee might be considered more "formal" - it's all relative, I suppose.
 

Yeps

Call Me a Cab
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Philly
True. I didn't think the castrati would have quite the same interest in the groupies, though? ;)

You would think that, but apparently this was not the case. And the groupies were likely to be high class women who got to enjoy themselves without the consequences and complications. So, they were more like rockstars than you would think.
 

The Good

Call Me a Cab
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2,361
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California, USA
Yeah, I know. Maybe, I mean that's pretty pessimistic, but I think that they'll stick around for a while longer. Look at most of us here, we're men and women of different generations, professions, and nationalities, yet Fedora Lounge members are proof that people are still wearing and taking hats seriously. I think that many Fedora Lounge members, and elements of the general populace as a whole, will continue wearing felt hats, if not necessarily just the fedora (cowboy, outback, etc), for decades to come, and another generation, or some members of such, will likely pick up on them as well. Even if the quality of hat making gets worse fifty to a hundred years from now, something might exist to satisfy this market...
 

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