Why is the Bum Look Popular? (formally the unemployed look)

[John in Covina]

I don't know if it still stands but the British military officers were expected to grow mustaches and in the Navy and merchant marine officers, beards were not uncommon at one time.

A lot of police officers have mustaches. The fire dept out this way does not allow beards simply because it interferes with the use of a Scott Pack, the breathing system used while fighting fires.

 

[MEDIUMMYND]

I agree. Tim is trying too hard to look disheveled (those are PJ bottoms he's wearing, are they not?) and just comes across as pretentious as hell. Ditto for his wife.

I gave up all hope for Americans years ago when I started seeing grown-ups, not just teenagers, wearing pajamas and slippers to the mall.

There was some uproar here in the UK when it emerged mums were doing the school run in their PJ"s

 

[HungaryTom]

Prince and the Pauper

I don't get it either - multi-millionaires imitating the clochards look. Ignorant and sadistic habit of the riche and not even an original idea:

1881:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/71/The_Prince_and_the_Pauper_1881_p20.jpg

1937
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/10/25/arts/25mauch.600.jpg

contemporary - why is this cool?:
http://www.petsofhomeless.com/images/Homeless cuddling dog by Kirsten Bole 100 dpi.jpg

 

[LondonLuke]

I don't know if it still stands but the British military officers were expected to grow mustaches .

A few still knock about these days, but they're very rare.

I know in Afghanistan, troops are allowed to stop shaving so the local tribal leaders respect them more.

 

[i_am_the_scruff]

Some people don't care about how they look. many others are just trying to look good to their peers, the opposite sex or same sex, or whatever.

Remember, a shirt and tie is arbitrary. Some rapper in baggy pants may think he looks just as good as you. Many african americans are meticulous about ironing their t shirts and jeans. many people pay big money for just the right distressed jeans etc.

True, disheveled can look unordered, but many people who go for a carefully put together look are not. It is very meticulous.

Very true.

Think about abstract art, Jackson Pollack's work like he flicked random streaks of paint across a canvass, but I hear there's more to it than that.

This thread is not about clothes at all.

Clothes, are fashion. Fashion changes and morphs over time. What is popular today was not popular in the 70's...or the 1870's for that matter.

Sadly, what this thread is about is applying -one arbitrary standard- to people other then ourselves, and finding out that everyone else fails but some mythical -us-.

Have standards for how you want to look. That is following a fashion just as much as someone who wears a different sort of clothing, one that perhaps we don't see the -value- in. Trust me, most of the rest of the populace sees -no value- in how 'we' dress either.

If the Golden Era was so spectacular for fashion and all the older folks thought so, then why is every granny I see....in a cotton pantsuit? And most granddads are in khakis and a loose shirt?

If the people who -had- to wear the things we revere as 'the pinnacle of fashion' have no use for them, we are wearing 'just as much a contrived costume' as the stars people keep posting.

We are free to wear what we want, as are they.

We are free to judge them for that, as they are free to judge us. But by literally 'assuming that anyone who does not share the same fashion value as we do' is somehow 'sloppy, substandard, a criminal.....'

I personally find the greatest joy in encountering and getting to know people 'not like me'....turns out, they are usually wonderful people and by setting them aside...you only shortchange yourself.

*THIS*

 

[donCarlos]

I don't know if it still stands but the British military officers were expected to grow mustaches and in the Navy and merchant marine officers, beards were not uncommon at one time.

And think of the submarine crews during the WWII!
www.uboat.net - look at the photos, how they looked while on patrol....

 

[just_me]

This thread is not about clothes at all.

Clothes, are fashion. Fashion changes and morphs over time. What is popular today was not popular in the 70's...or the 1870's for that matter.

Sadly, what this thread is about is applying -one arbitrary standard- to people other then ourselves, and finding out that everyone else fails but some mythical -us-.

Have standards for how you want to look. That is following a fashion just as much as someone who wears a different sort of clothing, one that perhaps we don't see the -value- in. Trust me, most of the rest of the populace sees -no value- in how 'we' dress either.

If the Golden Era was so spectacular for fashion and all the older folks thought so, then why is every granny I see....in a cotton pantsuit? And most granddads are in khakis and a loose shirt?

If the people who -had- to wear the things we revere as 'the pinnacle of fashion' have no use for them, we are wearing 'just as much a contrived costume' as the stars people keep posting.

We are free to wear what we want, as are they.

We are free to judge them for that, as they are free to judge us. But by literally 'assuming that anyone who does not share the same fashion value as we do' is somehow 'sloppy, substandard, a criminal.....'

I personally find the greatest joy in encountering and getting to know people 'not like me'....turns out, they are usually wonderful people and by setting them aside...you only shortchange yourself.

WOW!! So well put. You saved me a lot of typing.

 

[John in Covina]

Criminal.

 

[toobacat]

This thread is not about clothes at all.

Clothes, are fashion. Fashion changes and morphs over time. What is popular today was not popular in the 70's...or the 1870's for that matter.

Sadly, what this thread is about is applying -one arbitrary standard- to people other then ourselves, and finding out that everyone else fails but some mythical -us-.

Have standards for how you want to look. That is following a fashion just as much as someone who wears a different sort of clothing, one that perhaps we don't see the -value- in. Trust me, most of the rest of the populace sees -no value- in how 'we' dress either.

If the Golden Era was so spectacular for fashion and all the older folks thought so, then why is every granny I see....in a cotton pantsuit? And most granddads are in khakis and a loose shirt?

If the people who -had- to wear the things we revere as 'the pinnacle of fashion' have no use for them, we are wearing 'just as much a contrived costume' as the stars people keep posting.

We are free to wear what we want, as are they.

We are free to judge them for that, as they are free to judge us. But by literally 'assuming that anyone who does not share the same fashion value as we do' is somehow 'sloppy, substandard, a criminal.....'

I personally find the greatest joy in encountering and getting to know people 'not like me'....turns out, they are usually wonderful people and by setting them aside...you only shortchange yourself.

I agree with everything you said!

 

[Feraud]

I thought clothes makes the man?
Perhaps Will Shakespeare had it wrong.

Where is the tongue in cheek icon when you need it?

 

[Foofoogal]

I am sorry but I would feel more comfortable asking MK for directions or Magnoli's customer if I was lost.
Silly to think even that somehow MK is off base to ask a simple ? and get *gasp* judged so harshly.

I have only seen one lady in a store in slippers and pjs. I thought she had lost her mind. I would wonder about someone like that if they were towing children behind them. I would immediately think they were in the throes of depression.
My main ? is how far do we go?
I will state again what my mother used to say. No matter how poor one is they can afford to get a bar of soap. If you have 2 dresses you wash one and wear one. Do the best with what you have.
I especially take issue to the new movement of wearing whatever to church on Sunday. I understand it was to make people feel more comfortable and if it is all you have then well but the majority of people do have better and should at least try to wear your Sunday best.
I think Lizzie may be closest in explaining the trends.
I could go deeply into this subject but I will not.

 

[Paisley]

"Even those who want to dig deeper have to start with the surface."

You can't avoid making an impression with your clothes. Appearance is a major clue most of use to size people up. It's not always accurate, but that doesn't mean we should quit using it.

In days of old, books were bound to order to match the customer's library. Thus, all the books in a library looked alike. Now they're bound pretty much according to the content. Clothing has followed the same trend.

And yes, often, clothing is telling. Tim and Helena, with their unconventional look, obviously aren't CPAs or corporate attorneys. People walking on their pants in beat-up shoes aren't balls of fire, in my experience. A girl wearing a flower probably won't make a snarky remark if you open a door for her.

For the most part, people choose their look, but they might not realize they impression they make. Or they do realize it and rather than change their clothes, expect everyone else to change his mind. I just shake my head when a successful entrepreneur complains that people think he's the gardener because of the clothes he wears. Or guys who say "I look like a biker but I'm really a nice guy."

In an ideal world, we could all get to know one another to see what we're really like on the inside. This being the real world, we make trade-offs. A restaurant manager who works 60 hours a week can spend an hour per interview, check references, do a personality test, etc. to see if an angsty looking emo-style person is going to provide fast, pleasant service. Or he can just hire someone who presents himself as pleasant and efficient. In our friendships, we can seek out people who look like us or people who don't. The former won't give us as many broadening life experiences, but will yield more friends we can relax and be ourselves with.

 

[Paisley]

I thought clothes makes the man?
Perhaps Will Shakespeare had it wrong.

Where is the tongue in cheek icon when you need it?

I think he said the clothes proclaim the man.

 

[Paisley]

Well, I agree with the assertion that it is a trend and that attitudes about poverty have changed. But I won't go so far as to suggest it is some kind of moral failing. It is just an attitude shoft that comes from a fairly wealthy society.

I never said that wearing certain clothing was a moral failing. I said, or tried to, that people used to try to cover their faults. Now it's fashionable to put faults, physical and otherwise, on display in various ways.

 

[LizzieMaine]

In an ideal world, we could all get to know one another to see what we're really like on the inside. This being the real world, we make trade-offs. A restaurant manager who works 60 hours a week can spend an hour per interview, check references, do a personality test, etc. to see if an angsty looking emo-style person is going to provide fast, pleasant service. Or he can just hire someone who presents himself as pleasant and efficient. In our friendships, we can seek out people who look like us or people who don't. The former won't give us as many broadening life experiences, but will yield more friends we can relax and be ourselves with.

Quite true, and for a lot of us there's a separation between the work world and the personal world in making such judgements. When I'm hiring someone to work at the theatre, I specifically do *not* hire people who present themselves as edgy rebels. That's not the image we want to present to our patrons, and that's not the attitude I want around the place. I hire people who look clean-cut and upbeat because that's the kind of kid I want around the place. I don't have the time or the patience to indulge edgy rebels whose attitude will likely tick off the people who pay my own wages.

But I don't bring those rules to bear in judging my friends -- all that matters there is whether we have common points of interest. I couldn't care less if my friends wear a burlap bag if they're interesting conversationalists.

 

[Paisley]

But I don't bring those rules to bear in judging my friends -- all that matters there is whether we have common points of interest. I couldn't care less if my friends wear a burlap bag if they're interesting conversationalists.

I'm curious: do your friends and acquaintances tend to have a much different style from you?

Some people who know both me and my best friend find it odd that we're friends since we seem so different. In many ways, we are. But we have the same favorite clothing store and almost all my jewelry are pieces she made.

 

[Martinis at 8]

This is an interesting topic. Let me add my thoughts.

Ewan MacGregor - I would say the look is okay on him, it connotes the adventurer that he is, even though he has support teams following him on his motorcycle rides. However, when one thinks about it, most of the greater adventurers in the world have had support teams. MacGregor is no poser in this regard. His dress fits what he actually is...as did Steve McQueen's.

Tommy Bahama - is a poser (I'm not deriding the model, he has to make a living). The concept of Tommy Bahama is the escapism of the American Yuppie male who would like to have a Jimmy Buffet lifestyle, or Ewan MacGregor lifestyle, but can't. The Yuppie is trapped by his own decisions to seek a corporate job with the end goal of a corner office, a wide ass, and a decent golf handicap. All he has left is his imagination in seeking the pirate's lifestyle - he is pathetically trapped.

The Typical Real-Life Adventurer - but not grand adventurers like MacGregor, etc.; I would say most of us dress like MacGregor when adventuring, but dress with more refinement when we don't have to be in our trashy clothes. I'll use myself as a personal example at the risk of getting a few backhanded comments from the audience here. As an independent oil & gas consultant, I do most of my work in places like Nigeria and Angola. These are not exactly work environments for the well-dressed. You would be surprised at how "unemployed" my clothing style looks when I am in these environments. Like MacGregor, however, I also enjoy a good motorcycle ride (though I don't have a support team to follow me). If you look at the website Adventure Rider you will find me posting there as Pedro Navaja. Click here. In that link you will see me dressed like a bum. In fact the German army sweater I am wearing must have at least 50 weevil-ed holes in it that were mended, but in one of the photos near the end you will see me wearing a Canali suit. My point is that real adventurers will look "unemployed" when adventuring or when in relaxed mode, but they generally choose to dress smartly for appropriate engagements. In fact we enjoy a quality suit once we are out of the field.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[LizzieMaine]

I'm curious: do your friends and acquaintances tend to have a much different style from you?

Some people who know both me and my best friend find it odd that we're friends since we seem so different. In many ways, we are. But we have the same favorite clothing store and almost all my jewelry are pieces she made.

Well, my closest friend in the world is a devoted t-shirt wearer -- she has the most extensive collection of novelty tees I've ever seen, all carefully categorized. Another close friend is the ultra-corporate type, always in respectable boardroom attire. And my friends from the theatre and the local film society run the proverbial gamut. I'm the only "vintage" type in the crowd, and for that matter, the only "vintage" type in the whole town.

So in a place like this, with such a small population to begin with, I'd be limiting myself terribly by associating with people who only look like me. Because there *aren't* any. And i actually think of that as a good thing -- I've never cared for the idea of exclusive subcultures anyway.

In any event, I don't really have a problem with what people who aren't me choose to wear -- my issues are more with the overall culture itself.

 

[Marzipan]

It's their taste. Who cares?

Maybe they care more about raising that child than dressing up for no reason?
You can't look immaculate all the time.

Atleast she's warm and isn't going to trip over in 5 inch heels.

:eusa_clap

I agree. I don't like it when people judge me in this new 50's look. And I didn't like it when people judged me in my goth, punk, indie, preppy phases, either. And I REALLY don't like the idea of clothing being seen as the best way to express yourself. Certainly, there's something to be said for looking the way you want to be treated but that's a rule for an imperfect world. And why don't we all try to make it as perfect as we can?

 

[donCarlos]

...
But I don't bring those rules to bear in judging my friends -- all that matters there is whether we have common points of interest. I couldn't care less if my friends wear a burlap bag if they're interesting conversationalists.

Exactly! But if my friends have some stupid remarks on the way I dress, I don´t hesitate to tell them what I think about their style. And of course, I´m always the winner.

And the first part is very right as well. When you meet someone for the first time and you have to make an opinion in ten minutes, then the clothes and overall appearance are the first thing to notice and judge.