Why Irish soldiers who fought Hitler hide their medals

[Dragon Soldier]

It may have been for PR purposes, but that's what my Irish tour guide told us several years ago. She said the Irish and Brits have had their spats, but the Irish people (not the govt) are the first to run to their aid in times of national crisis like WW1 or WW2.

Muh. I'd fundamentally disagree with that.
The Irish people, in crisis and otherwise tend to serve their own purpose (as they see it). Sometimes this coincides with the aims of the British, sometimes not.

This of course is more or less exactly how things should happen!

Also worth pointing out that for the duration if the first world war Irish people were British... Or at least citizens of the UK.

If you're trying to explain the relationship between Ireland & Britain in the length of a message board post or even a summary as a tour guide... You'll fail. Way too complex.

 

[Edward]

Muh. I'd fundamentally disagree with that.
The Irish people, in crisis and otherwise tend to serve their own purpose (as they see it). Sometimes this coincides with the aims of the British, sometimes not.

This of course is more or less exactly how things should happen!

Also worth pointing out that for the duration if the first world war Irish people were British... Or at least citizens of the UK.

If you're trying to explain the relationship between Ireland & Britain in the length of a message board post or even a summary as a tour guide... You'll fail. Way too complex.

Ain't that the truth!

Yes, prior to the twenty-six county Irish Free State beintg established by the Anglo-Irish Treaty of 1921, all of Ireland was (from the Act of Union in 1800) under direct rule from London. No part of Ireland ever was, ever has been, or ever will be geographically part of Britain - Britain is the bigger island next door - but while under British rule, British citizenship was extended to those in Ireland (still the case in respect of the six counties of present-day Northern Ireland, which remains under British rule). Similar arrangements existed across the Empire, to some greater or lesser extent, I believe. There is, of course, a much older historical precedent for this: to the best of my understanding, the Roman Empire extended Roman citizenship to those natives of conquered territories who wished to accept it.

I can't recall what the arrangement was re citienship with the Free State - which remanied part of the Commonwealth with the British monarch as head of state, but certainly it was completely dissolved by Easter Monday 1949, the date from which, per the Ireland Act 1948, the British government recognised the former Free State as a wholly independent and sovereign republic. (Of course, this was only really a formal recognition of what had been de facto the case for some time by that point).

I've been fascinated by Irish history in the 1912ish-1923ish period for quite some time, and have a passing interest in a some decades either side. It's amazing to see the shift in cultural and constitutional arrangements in a short period of time. My feeling is that by this point the two islands are more like polite, very middle class neighbours with a nodding but unintrusive relationship with each other, for the most part. A very significant amount of commercial interaction, of course: I was amazed to discover (at the time of the Eire bailout) just how big a proportion of the UK's exports go to the Republic (I recall the BBC putting the figure as high as 50%), and there's certainly a lot of cultural cross-pollination in art, music, theatre, film...

 

[Baron Kurtz]

My feeling is that by this point the two islands are more like polite, very middle class neighbours with a nodding but unintrusive relationship with each other, for the most part. A very significant amount of commercial interaction, of course …

Like an old married couple, they've got to share space so they might as well be civil.

 

[Edward]

Like an old married couple, they've got to share space so they might as well be civil.

Ha, that's about the size of it... lol

 

[cpdv]

I am surprised to find this not to have gone to the blazes yet. As I like all of our British friends on here I shall refrain from any discussions on the relationship between Ireland and England.

 

[hatguy1]

If you're trying to explain the relationship between Ireland & Britain in the length of a message board post or even a summary as a tour guide... You'll fail. Way too complex.

I'm not trying to explain anything. I was rather just pointing out what our tour guide had told us for discussion sake.

 

[Dragon Soldier]

I'm not trying to explain anything. I was rather just pointing out what our tour guide had told us for discussion sake.

I know, no big deal and no offence meant, it's just what your guide said is not really true.
Irish involvement in the world wars had little to do with a desire to aid Britain. Notwithstanding the fact that there might have been the odd Anglophile or old "UK Irish" family about. My grandfather would have qualified as the latter.

 

[Two Types]

I am surprised to find this not to have gone to the blazes yet. As I like all of our British friends on here I shall refrain from any discussions on the relationship between Ireland and England.

The relationship between Ireland and England? If you want things to get really messy we can always discuss the relationship between Ireland and Scotland!

 

[Two Types]

No part of Ireland ever was, ever has been, or ever will be geographically part of Britain

I always like to use the correct definitions to annoy my wife's Irish (or more accurately Scots-Irish) friends. I like to remind them that the Republic of Ireland is part of the British Isles. As Ordnance Survey puts it:
"British Isles - This is purely a geographical term – it refers to the islands of Great Britain and Ireland – including the Republic of Ireland – and the 5000 or so smaller islands scattered around our coasts."
It is guaranteed to irritate them.

 

[Dragon Soldier]

The relationship between Ireland and England? If you want things to get really messy we can always discuss the relationship between Ireland and Scotland!

Or, heaven forbid, the Welsh!

 

[Edward]

Or, heaven forbid, the Welsh!

Nah. The Welsh are conquered... the Scots and Irish merely occupied. lol

 

[Edward]

I always like to use the correct definitions to annoy my wife's Irish (or more accurately Scots-Irish) friends. I like to remind them that the Republic of Ireland is part of the British Isles. As Ordnance Survey puts it:
"British Isles - This is purely a geographical term – it refers to the islands of Great Britain and Ireland – including the Republic of Ireland – and the 5000 or so smaller islands scattered around our coasts."
It is guaranteed to irritate them.

Hah... yes, that's always going to be a sore point for a lot of people who disagree with they English who coined the term. lol

 

[hatguy1]

...it's just what your guide said is not really true.
Irish involvement in the world wars had little to do with a desire to aid Britain.

I understand, Dragon. I, too, suspected (as indicated) that there was quite a bit of PR mixed in with the comment. I also wondered how much economic opportunity would play into such enlistments.

 

[cpdv]

I always like to use the correct definitions to annoy my wife's Irish (or more accurately Scots-Irish) friends. I like to remind them that the Republic of Ireland is part of the British Isles. As Ordnance Survey puts it:
"British Isles - This is purely a geographical term – it refers to the islands of Great Britain and Ireland – including the Republic of Ireland – and the 5000 or so smaller islands scattered around our coasts."
It is guaranteed to irritate them.

That is very true Ireland all those other islands are part of the British Isles. The Cornish and Welsh (ironically meaning foreigner) being the Celts that were pushed to the fringe by the more "recent" invasion of the Angles, Saxons Jutes ect. The Scotts are funny people. They forget they are the decedents of the Dal Riata from modern Ulster who invaded the home of Pics and wiped them out and then interbred with the survivors. And their tradional clothing is only from the 15th Century before that they dressed for the most part just like the ancient Irish in a "leane" tunic. And as I kick over the ant hill the difference is the Irish never quit fighting back the Scots, Cornish and Welsh gave up eventually

 

[Edward]

And as I kick over the ant hill the difference is the Irish never quit fighting back the Scots, Cornish and Welsh gave up eventually

Don't go there. Really.