Why did we make ourselves into walking advertisements?

[2jakes]

It's a two way street: you are free to point to the sky after getting a base hit, and I am free to express the opinion that it is silly. Neither one is infringing the rights of the other.

Although pointing to where you plan to hit the ball comes with a price!

I’ve read that “the Sultan of Swat” was rewarded by the crowd.
Not sure what it was that “the Great Bambino” received for that gesture.

 

[Stearmen]

Getting back on subject!

 

[Fading Fast]

Although pointing to where you plan to hit the ball comes with a price!

I’ve read that “the Sultan of Swat” was rewarded by the crowd.
Not sure what it was that “the Great Bambino” received for that gesture.

Like so many things, this ⇧ seems like another example of something that was a fact growing up that has since been either "disproved" or made highly questionable. Other than the dispiriting nature of finding so many "facts" aren't facts - I don't really care if this one is true or not, but does any one know if there's a definitive answer on if this happened or not?

 

[LizzieMaine]

Film footage exists, both newsreel shots and views shot by a fan with a 16mm camera in the stands, and it shows that Ruth made some sort of a gesture -- but whether the gesture was directed at center field, or at pitcher Charlie Root, can't be positively determined from the blurry, distant image. No recordings of the two different radio broadcasts exist -- there are "recreations," but these were made after the called-shot story was well known, and it's doubtful they reflect what was actually heard, so there is no on-the-spot live description of what happened.

The backstory of the incident is complicated. Late in the 1932 season the Cubs had picked up former Yankee shortstop Mark Koenig as a pinch-hitter/defensive sub, and he had been useful during the September pennant run. But after the Cubs won the pennant, when it came time to vote shares for the World Series money, Koenig was only given a half-share. His former Yankee teammates got wind of this and taunted the Cubs as "cheapskate nickel-nursing blankety-blanks" and other colorful expressions during the first two games in New York, with Ruth the most visible and vocal taunter. All this got into the press, and when the Series moved to Chicago for Game 3, the Cub fans showered lemons and other garbage onto the field when Ruth appeared.

Ruth was annoyed by this, but was even more annoyed by the goading he got from the Cub dugout, where bench jockeys made a number of colorful observations about his possible ancestry. When he came to bat in the fifth inning, the jockeying started up again, and Ruth took two quick strikes. After the second, as Root -- a tough, hardboiled character -- sneered in at him, Ruth raised his arm. Whether he was specifically pointing to a distant target, or wagging his finger (or fingers, he may have held up two) at Root as he told him to get stuffed, will never be known for sure. But he did gesture and he did hit the next pitch into to deep center field. He then made a series of rude gestures in the direction of the Chicago dugout as he rounded the bases.

Ruth himself gave conflicting accounts of what happened when questioned by the press. He told most reporters at the time that he was pointing at Root. Later, after the "called shot" story became established, he began confirming that he did indeed "call the shot." Charley Root himself went to his grave insisting that if Ruth had actually "called his shot," the next pitch would have laid him in the dirt. Eyewitnesses likewise debated the implications of what they saw, with, in the end, one believing what one really wanted to believe. The fact that the story is as well-known as it is testifies to the fact that, whatever Ruth meant by his actions, they were definitely an anamoly for the time.

 

[HudsonHawk]

Most accounts from those close enough to actually know all pretty much say Ruth was simply giving it right back to Root. Frank Crosetti says that Ruth sat next to him in the dugout afterward and said something to the effect of "of course I didn't point, but if those [expletives] want to think so, let em". Ruth also said afterward “Hell no. Only a damn fool would have done a thing like that. There was a lot of pretty rough ribbing going on . . . there was that second strike, and they let me have it again. So I held up that finger . . . and I said I still have one left. Now, kid, you know damn well I wasn’t pointing anywhere. If I had done that, Root would have stuck the ball in my ear. I never knew anybody who could tell you ahead of time where he was going to hit a baseball.”

That last part was probably the most telling. Baseball was much rougher back then, and you can bet your life that had Ruth actually pointed, the next pitch would have been right at the ol melon.

 

[Fading Fast]

Lizzie and Hudson - thank you, great color / information.

 

[LizzieMaine]

There's no question he would have laid Ruth out. Root was one of the roughest, toughest pitchers in the National League, and was notorious for keeping batters loose with the "high, hard one." Over the course of his career he hit 79 batters, ten of those in 1933. He must've still been pretty sore over being shown up in the World Series.

Charlie Root, 1899-1970. "I gave my life to baseball, but I'll only be remembered for something that never happened."

 

[HudsonHawk]

Its interesting how pitchers are often remembered for one ignominious moment, giving up a memorable hit or home run, despite having solid, if not admirable big league careers. Root, Branca, Downing, Show, Williams...Dramatic moments like that bring out the best baseball has to offer, but it also yields the lowest lows for someone, often through nothing more than happenstance and a quarter of an inch. I never wanted to be a pitcher.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I've always felt sorriest for Ralph Branca -- not only did an excellent career go up in the smoke of a single pitch, but he was doomed to spend the next fifty years making public appearances alongside the man who hit that pitch. They became good friends -- only for it to finally come out that cheating and chicanery had been afoot. Despite all that, Branca is not a bitter man, although he would have every right to be one. That's character.

 

[Fading Fast]

Its interesting how pitchers are often remembered for one ignominious moment, giving up a memorable hit or home run, despite having solid, if not admirable big league careers. Root, Branca, Downing, Show, Williams...Dramatic moments like that bring out the best baseball has to offer, but it also yields the lowest lows for someone, often through nothing more than happenstance and a quarter of an inch. I never wanted to be a pitcher.

⇧ that knifes cuts both ways. No matter what Phil Simms and Odell Beckham Jr. do in their careers (Simms has done plenty), they will probably be seen for decades to come owning to that one insane catch of Beckham's. It's the upside / downside of playing sports on a national stage. Not at all fair, but heck, these are grown men who get to play a game for a very good living - that there's some downside risk, who among us wouldn't switch spots with them?

 

[HudsonHawk]

⇧ that knifes cuts both ways. No matter what Phil Simms and Odell Beckham Jr. do in their careers (Simms has done plenty), they will probably be seen for decades to come owning to that one insane catch of Beckham's. It's the upside / downside of playing sports on a national stage. Not at all fair, but heck, these are grown men who get to play a game for a very good living - that there's some downside risk, who among us wouldn't switch spots with them?

Sure. Those moments are what keeps us coming back for more. And there are plenty of guys who are remembered for hitting those big home runs...Thomson, Carter...ummm...dare I say it...Bucky Dent [*ducks*]. But not everyone shrugs it off. As Lizzie mentions, Branca forever had to answer for that one pitch, despite having a terrific career. There has been lots of speculation of whether or not those moments drove the sad deaths of guys like Show and Donnie Moore. Being reminded every day for the rest of your life of one mistake isn't always a fair trade. But it's the life you chose.

 

[Fading Fast]

... Being reminded every day for the rest of your life of one mistake isn't always a fair trade. But it's the life you chose.

Agree with both statements.

 

[LizzieMaine]

It's not always the sad moments that get remembered. The guy next to Branca in the picture above, Cookie Lavagetto, had a decent but not spectacular career in the thirties and forties -- made the All Star team, played in a couple of World Series, was known as a steady, dependable clutch hitter. But the only thing anybody remembers about him today was that he pinch-hit a double to break up a no-hitter in the 1947 World Series, in what turned out to be his next-to-last major league plate appearance. If it wasn't for that one swing of the bat, he'd be just like Whitey Kurowski or Stan Hack or Harland Clift or Ken Keltner -- decent, quality ballplayers who disappeared into obscurity once their day was gone. You might say a certain Bobby Thomson's one swing of the bat puts him in that same category.

 

[2jakes]

Like so many things, this ⇧ seems like another example of don't really care if this one is true or not, but does any one know if there's a definitive answer on if this happened or not?

“Part of the beauty of the whole story is that we’ll never have a definitive answer.
The intellectual part of me says, ‘no, it didn’t happen the way it was depicted in the movies,”
Ed Sherman ~ Chicago Tribune.


“It’s in the papers, isn’t it!”
Babe Ruth ~ baseball player.

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Print the legend....