Why are original G-1 jackets so cheap compared to A-2s?

[bobbyball]

I know I am saying nothing new here, but I am at a loss for why there is such a wide gap between prices for original G-1 jackets (I include all the varients from M422 onwards here) and original A-2s.

I am comparing plain jackets here – not named or those with patches or squadron art.

I have a few early G-1 jackets – the earliest around 1942 and all of them have been purchased/traded for less than £300. The equivalant in terms of condition for an original A-2 would be around £800 or so.

I am a fan of both jackets but the craftsmanship that goes into a G-1 is IMO vastly superior to that of an A-2. Even the top repro A-2s are more than an original 40s/50s G-1.

Is it to do with the kudos, air force being considered more exciting than the navy? Is it rarity? I would be interested to hear other views and opinions.

 

[H.Johnson]

I agree - and am equally perplexed by the disparity.

IMHO the USN series jackets are superior in most 'real' regards, especially usability. The construction is a lot more interesting, too.

 

[Charlie Noodles]

Ssshhh. I want one and don't want to pay A-2 prices for it when I've got that money spare.

 

[kojax]

i like the g-1 jacket alot. i am getting the g-1 jacket from gibson-barnes. i enjoy wearing my a-2 jacket to.......

 

[Atticus Finch]

Perhaps I'll take a stab at an answer.

Except for a short period between 1978 and 1983, the M-422/G-1 has been in constant production since the late 'thirties. On the other hand, the A-2 was not produced between 1943 and 1988. In fact, many folks maintain that the A-2 was never produced after WWII as the newer jackets are not really A-2s. Of course, this would tend to make original A-2s rarer than original G-1s. Yes, I understand what you are saying and I agree that an original M-422 or M-422A is probably harder to find than an original A-2. But the average vintage jacket buyer wouldn't know the difference between a 1967 Star G-1 and a 1943 Church M-422a. Thus, in the larger scheme, original navy jackets are much more plentiful than original A-2s.

Also, I think that the Hollywood has inadvertently added to the demand for A-2s, and perhaps suppressed the demand for G-1s, by producing far more Air Force war movies than Naval Aviation war movies. I've never counted, but I'll bet that in war films produced since WWII, A-2s outnumber G-1s ten to one.

AF

 

[Peacoat]

Good analysis, Atticus; as usual, I think you are on the money.

 

[Nighthawk]

I find it ironic that the film Top Gun was the main reason that led to the modern A-2 being issued.

NH

 

[Edward]

Perhaps I'll take a stab at an answer.

Except for a short period between 1978 and 1983, the M-422/G-1 has been in constant production since the late 'thirties. On the other hand, the A-2 was not produced between 1943 and 1988. In fact, many folks maintain that the A-2 was never produced after WWII as the newer jackets are not really A-2s. Of course, this would tend to make original A-2s rarer than original G-1s. Yes, I understand what you are saying and I agree that an original M-422 or M-422A is probably harder to find than an original A-2. But the average vintage jacket buyer wouldn't know the difference between a 1967 Star G-1 and a 1943 Church M-422a. Thus, in the larger scheme, original navy jackets are much more plentiful than original A-2s.

Also, I think that the Hollywood has inadvertently added to the demand for A-2s, and perhaps suppressed the demand for G-1s, by producing far more Air Force war movies than Naval Aviation war movies. I've never counted, but I'll bet that in war films produced since WWII, A-2s outnumber G-1s ten to one.

AF

This has it for me:

More plentiful availability of the G1 type versus fewer A2s on the market plus the Steve MacQueen factor with the A2.

 

[kampkatz]

Would somebody be able to find out just how many G-1's(or variants) have been produced as compared to A-2's?

 

[Fletch]

Another thing to consider is that the typical G-1 is much trimmer thru the waist than the typical (even milspec) A-2. This limits its wearability for the, uh, Average American.

 

[CBI]

correct, thousands and thousands more original G-1's out there than A-2's. There are contractor lists around somewhere. The A-2 contractors are on a list on this site or VLJ.

 

[Atticus Finch]

Would somebody be able to find out just how many G-1's(or variants) have been produced as compared to A-2's?

Do you mean types of jackets or numbers of production of each type? Here's a list of the "G-1ish" type jackets but I haven't a clue as to how many of each were produced.

M-422
M-422(a)
AN-6552
AN-j-3 (never issued)
55J14
7823(AER)
7823A through 7823E (current issue)

AF

 

[Atticus Finch]

Just as an afterthought, I'm not sure just knowing how many of each type of jacket was produced would entirely solve the mystery posed in this thread. I think the availability of these jackets it is also a function of when the jackets were produced. The remaining original A-2s are now over sixty-five years old. Age is taking its toll on these old vets and there are now ever fewer of them available in wearable condition. On the other hand, B, C and D-series G-1s are only in their forties and most are still quite solid and wearable. Of course, the E-series G-1s are still being produced and will be wearable for decades to come....if anyone cares to.

AF

 

[H.Johnson]

And perhaps that the USN style is not associated with the European Theater?

 

[Creeping Past]

HJ, that's an interesting point about the different consumption/idealisation of various jackets in different places.

Are you suggesting that the 'global' image of the A2 has eclipsed that of the G1, which was operational in a more limited theater?

 

[H.Johnson]

Well, rather the reverse. I think that people want a wartime or reproduction wartime jacket because they associate it with something focussed that captures their imagination. Like the Battle of Britain, like the 8th Airforce 'war in Europe', Memphis Belle etc.

The USN jacket could be associated with many historic episodes - 'Flying Tigers', Battles of the Coral Sea, Midway etc. - but with the possible exception of the former, I don't hear of many people talking of them in the same terms. I think perhaps that the USN jacket suffers because in many peoples' minds the Pacific campaign (where the USN jacket was mainly used) lacks focussed episodes with which the jacket can be associated. Personally I think that indicates a lack of historical research.

Just my opinion.

 

[bobbyball]

Well, rather the reverse. I think that people want a wartime or reproduction wartime jacket because they associate it with something focussed that captures their imagination. Like the Battle of Britain, like the 8th Airforce 'war in Europe', Memphis Belle etc.

The USN jacket could be associated with many historic episodes - 'Flying Tigers', Battles of the Coral Sea, Midway etc. - but with the possible exception of the former, I don't hear of many people talking of them in the same terms. I think perhaps that the USN jacket suffers because in many peoples' minds the Pacific campaign (where the USN jacket was mainly used) lacks focussed episodes with which the jacket can be associated. Personally I think that indicates a lack of historical research.

Just my opinion.

I think you make a very valid point and thanks for all the other points made.

I now only have one original A-2 which is named and historically attributable to the ETO – it will be part of my pension!!

Most of the 1940s/50s G-1 jackets I have are plain and are in remarkable condition. I had read somewhere that many of the pilots did not actually wear their jackets as the climate in the pacific was so harsh. Also the fur collar may have been an irritant. Nevertheless, I love the detail and construction in these jackets and because of the exclusive use of goatskin they have lasted so well. Perhaps in a few years time when original A-2s are even harder to find than they are now, we will see a rise in the G-1 collecting market. What I do find amazing is that for the price of a repro
G-1 you can get an original for far less.

On reflection, the monetary values placed on these relics are more to do with the history and association than purely materials. To fire one’s imagination – priceless! for everything else Barclaycard!!!

 

[PADDY]

Market forces.

Market forces and demands and marketing image. A2 wins by a furlong. G-1 comes in second.

 

[Fletch]

I think that people want a wartime or reproduction wartime jacket because they associate it with something focussed that captures their imagination. Like the Battle of Britain, like the 8th Airforce 'war in Europe', Memphis Belle etc.

Totally! We say all who served were heroes in their way, and mean it. But there is a definite pecking order when it comes to mythology and mystique. Even FAW 7, the Navy sub hunters based in England, are considered a rear-echelon unit when they're thought of at all.

I never got it myself. I bought my first A-2 because I loved the style, comfort and practicality of it. Style meaning the lure of the air and the simple elegance of the era. The G-1 family has those things in spades. So does my other favorite, the A-1, whose war record is nonexistent or close to it.

 

[Mark P]

I think what's been said is right. I'd add:

- A Hollywood factor (more A2s in films)
- That fur collar (not to everyone's taste)

I've had two G1s which in my view have the design edge over the A2 - Fantastic ease of movement with the bi-swing back together with the extra underarm gussets, and that great big inside pocket. In each case I swapped the fur collar for a leather one.