GHT
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Why American Workers Now Dress So Casually
- Thread starter PrettySquareGal
- Start date
HudsonHawk
I'll Lock Up
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This is how we want our British guests to dress, but you hardly ever see it at Disneyworld. Mostly just schlubs in shorts and tee shirts, dressed like they were on holiday:
Angus Forbes
One of the Regulars
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True story (I think 
) -- Once upon a time, perhaps in the 1950s, a man of independent wealth worked for IBM as a customer engineer. In those days, a customer engineer was more or less a repairman, and often had to crawl around on the floor trying to repair a machine. This particular gent would arrive at a customer's site in a chauffeur-driven Rolls Royce. The driver would carry his tools for him. He wore nothing but the best bespoke suits. Unusual character.
Tom Watson, Sr., the great man behind Old IBM, was a something of a stickler for dress codes that strongly suggested white shirts. He is reported to have remarked "seeing a man in a blue shirt makes me stiffen". . . or something to that effect. The old days . . .
) -- Once upon a time, perhaps in the 1950s, a man of independent wealth worked for IBM as a customer engineer. In those days, a customer engineer was more or less a repairman, and often had to crawl around on the floor trying to repair a machine. This particular gent would arrive at a customer's site in a chauffeur-driven Rolls Royce. The driver would carry his tools for him. He wore nothing but the best bespoke suits. Unusual character.Tom Watson, Sr., the great man behind Old IBM, was a something of a stickler for dress codes that strongly suggested white shirts. He is reported to have remarked "seeing a man in a blue shirt makes me stiffen". . . or something to that effect. The old days . . .
Stanley Doble
Call Me a Cab
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Man in rompers walks around New York, and the public's reaction
LizzieMaine
Bartender
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http://www.bostonglobe.com/lifestyl...ff-and-bury/7ujyONjMemMEW01TE4vBLO/story.html
"Take That Necktie Off And Bury It!"
"Take That Necktie Off And Bury It!"
Benzadmiral
Call Me a Cab
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+ 1000
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That was really rude.
I don't like rompers. I don't like 90% of modern fashion. But I keep my mouth shut about some stranger's clothes and I don't go running down the street mocking them.
M Hatman
I'll Lock Up
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Yes.....with the addition of a good partner....(never know when you will need backup)....
Here are two examples of GREAT partner/backup choices.....Wonder Woman and Agent Carter.
Cheers,
M
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Yes.....with the addition of a good partner....(never know when you will need backup)....
Here are two examples of GREAT partner/backup choices.....Wonder Woman and Agent Carter.
Cheers,
M
View attachment 85162 View attachment 85163
It says a lot about women's fashion in the '60s that while you chose an iconic pre-hippies '60s look for the man (and I agree, the clean classic lines of Draper's clothes are outstanding - also, doesn't hurt that Jon Hamm was put on earth to wear those exact clothes), you reached back to WWII and WWI for the women.
In wartime, frivolity like exaggerated fashion seems garish, so women's clothes become simple and (IMHO) classic during war; whereas, when peace and prosperity reign, fashion designers get stupid and women's clothes, in particular, tend to get silly. This was noticeable on "Downton Abbey" where, before the war, women's clothes were overwrought and awkward, but during the war they became sensible and, IMHO, elegant.
Sure, you had the Somme, Ypres, gas attacks, trench warfare and tens of millions dead, but at least women's fashion improved.
P.S., Wonder Woman looked ridiculously good in the outfit your highlighted - simple, elegant, well-tailored clothes are the ticket.
M Hatman
I'll Lock Up
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EXACTLY!!!
M
M Hatman
I'll Lock Up
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On another note....I do not much mind the "Best Buy" or service industry look of eveyone in a polo and proper dockers.......you know who to look for and the uniform look inspires some....and I do mean some, confidence the individual has knowledge and training.....
HOWEVER, that said, I DO NOT like such a look on people handling my money (ie Bankers, investment firms, brokers) as I do not wish to deal with people who look like me..(I am a polo wearing service worker.....most of the time.....shirt and tie sometimes.......suit and tie when lecturing or doing training sessions)...I want somebody a step above who DOES look a little stingy, conservative, and practical, some one who will treat my money like it was theirs (in a good way, there is the old saying "no money is easier to spend, than other peoples money") and this includes the tellers. In my area, this attitude has become quite aparent among many, as most of the Banks and other institutions have quite done away the the "casual Friday"......
M
HOWEVER, that said, I DO NOT like such a look on people handling my money (ie Bankers, investment firms, brokers) as I do not wish to deal with people who look like me..(I am a polo wearing service worker.....most of the time.....shirt and tie sometimes.......suit and tie when lecturing or doing training sessions)...I want somebody a step above who DOES look a little stingy, conservative, and practical, some one who will treat my money like it was theirs (in a good way, there is the old saying "no money is easier to spend, than other peoples money") and this includes the tellers. In my area, this attitude has become quite aparent among many, as most of the Banks and other institutions have quite done away the the "casual Friday"......
M
I'm not so sure that war time brings sensible, simple fashions. The Zoot suit appeared during WWII and was hardly a sensible, simple fashion. Likewise, dandies wearing exaggerated fashions appeared during the French revolution. On the other hand, the end of a major war can bring somewhat exaggerated styles into fashion, as people are released from rationing and material shortages.
Mostly, however, I think one should not notice the way a person is dressed. That is to say, their clothing should look so appropriate, yet neither very expensive or shabby, so that one scarcely notices what the other person is wearing. It's a fine line, to be sure, and the line moves around all the time.
Mostly, however, I think one should not notice the way a person is dressed. That is to say, their clothing should look so appropriate, yet neither very expensive or shabby, so that one scarcely notices what the other person is wearing. It's a fine line, to be sure, and the line moves around all the time.
JimWagner
Practically Family
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I was an IT pro from about 1970-2012 and saw work attire (in that field) go from pin stripe suits to pretty much anything goes. It was indeed rediculous, as someone up-thread noted, to be pulling heavy mainframe bus and tag cables under raised floors wearing suits. But in those days we were in an ever growing field where IT professionals were in one of the higher paid professions and expected to look the part. In those days multi-million dollar mainframes covered whole floors , cost millions of dollars, and were behind glass viewing walls where upper executives brought clients and visitors so they could show off the technology.
By the late 80's IT professionals were making very good salaries, in many cases more than most upper managers in other fields. Then a couple of interesting things happened. For security reasons many of the glass walled viewing areas were blocked off. Mainframes were getting smaller. Access to any areas where machines were and programmers worked was becoming restricted to just those people. Companies were realizing that those highly paid IT pros in their suits thought they were just as good and even better than most managers and worse yet, had leverage.
From an IT view, being isolated now meant that "looking the part" was no longer really important for either the company or themselves and harder to justify as anything but corporate games. They were putting in 60+ hour work weeks and wanted to be more comfortable doing so. Salaries were topping out so other ways to keep the techies "happily" employed were needed. That's when dress codes were actually relaxed.
It's common to think that was all there was too it, but there was actually another factor at work. Relaxing the dress code for IT people and not for managers, once again in the eyes of those managers, differentiated them from the non-management types and gave them a feeling of superiority that they really never had when the people they managed dressed better and likely made more than them.
The problem there was that many, if not most IT types really only respected other techies and couldn't have cared less about the games managers played. When management finally figured that out they decided the heck with it, let's all be comfortable. After all, who really thinks that a suit and tie is more comfortable than polo shirts and khakis?
By the late 80's IT professionals were making very good salaries, in many cases more than most upper managers in other fields. Then a couple of interesting things happened. For security reasons many of the glass walled viewing areas were blocked off. Mainframes were getting smaller. Access to any areas where machines were and programmers worked was becoming restricted to just those people. Companies were realizing that those highly paid IT pros in their suits thought they were just as good and even better than most managers and worse yet, had leverage.
From an IT view, being isolated now meant that "looking the part" was no longer really important for either the company or themselves and harder to justify as anything but corporate games. They were putting in 60+ hour work weeks and wanted to be more comfortable doing so. Salaries were topping out so other ways to keep the techies "happily" employed were needed. That's when dress codes were actually relaxed.
It's common to think that was all there was too it, but there was actually another factor at work. Relaxing the dress code for IT people and not for managers, once again in the eyes of those managers, differentiated them from the non-management types and gave them a feeling of superiority that they really never had when the people they managed dressed better and likely made more than them.
The problem there was that many, if not most IT types really only respected other techies and couldn't have cared less about the games managers played. When management finally figured that out they decided the heck with it, let's all be comfortable. After all, who really thinks that a suit and tie is more comfortable than polo shirts and khakis?
As Robin Givhan wrote in mentioning a certain woman's high heels, it's not about comfort. Neither hers, nor yours.
In some old book, it says that no one desires to wear special clothing except to win empty glory, that is, to seem to be more honorable than others. People do not want to put on expensive things in a place where they cannot be seen by others. We desire to wear expensive garments only to gain empty glory.
In some old book, it says that no one desires to wear special clothing except to win empty glory, that is, to seem to be more honorable than others. People do not want to put on expensive things in a place where they cannot be seen by others. We desire to wear expensive garments only to gain empty glory.
Edward
Bartender
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In all honesty, I'm equally comfortable in both, but I'll readily acknowledge that that isn't the current social norm. I do sometimes think that people are more comfrotable in certain garments because they've been culturally programmed to view them that way, or that it's at least psychologically in large part - feeling more comfortable in what society deems 'leisure clothes' because they're not 'work uniform'. It would be a fascinating area to see psychological research in, but certainly one thing I've always noticed is that guys who wear collar and tie to work will very often make less effort to dress up when gonig out socially at the weekend than guys who wear dirty work clothes all week, and then enjoy dressing up to go out...
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scottyrocks
I'll Lock Up
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Last week I went to Friday night services in a new-to-me reform temple in a jacket, tie, and waistcoat (not a three-piece), and I was better dressed than almost everyone, including the rabbi.
Ah'm tellin' ya - some people's kids!
Ah'm tellin' ya - some people's kids!
That happens to me when I go to church sometimes. The only ones who are consistently dressed up are the ushers. The rector is vested, of course. But it seems like I'm usually the most over-dressed person at any function, which is not to say I'm well-dressed.
Funny, but when I read the message and got to the word reform, the first thing that went through my mind was reform school.
Funny, but when I read the message and got to the word reform, the first thing that went through my mind was reform school.
M Hatman
I'll Lock Up
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Actually the sack suit came out mid-nineteenth century (1850's....and look how long they have stuck around!!!!). But you are right about a sudden change in that knee britches and the turn back coats and long waist coats of the 17th and 18th century went right into the use of trousers (largely thanks to military influence, they were introduced as "campaign" wear that was more practical to wear than britches on long marches and rough terrain) small waistcoats and cutaway coats (tails of a sort) and frock suits. Hat styles changed dramatically too...........cravats were much the same but became much more a statement with lot's of new ways to be tied and displayed being introduced.....I think a lot of it had to do with the young people and the end of several wars and revolutions of the time (though new ones quickly appeared)......they wanted to make a statement against the establishment....same as now.....
m
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My wife worked (just retired) from a large corp in project management, ( dams and hydroelectric) , engineers etc. A new female manager came in dressing in dresses and pant suits. She was taken aside and told to not dress so formally and to tone it down. She was separating herself from the rank and file with her manner of dress and making them uncomfortable. The plebes wore jeans, polo shirts, shorts on hot days etc.