Who wears/wore porkpies?

[ChicagoWayVito]

Did you see the video that Jared @jlee562 posted…quite a while ago? It made the telescope crease look easy, but I don’t think the gap always as small on Bob’s hat.

I have not seen the video posted by JLee, I will see if I can find it. I may have to give the telescope method that JW showed me years ago a try. Something that I personally like in a pork pie is a flat top on the crown. I have seen other telescope methods that essentially use a smaller block or even a balloon to do the telescope and those give a more rounded crown.

 

[Edward]

There seems to be a wide and non/uniform way to define what a porkpie hat is. To me, it’s a stingy brim with a telescope crown (circular, oval, diamond etc.). To others the “brim up” nature is required. Then we see the inclusion of wider brim hats with a western/outdoorsy feel included if they have a telescope crown. I’m fine with the ambiguity, but it does make it hard to be on the same page.

Would have been helpful if old John Stetson would have come down from Mt. Sinai with a couple of stone tablets. Or maybe what we need a Rosetta Stone?

It's much like the old trilby/ fedora distinction, isn't it? I tend to agree myself that what makes a porkpie is the combination of, ideally, a sharp telescopic crown (or at least the equivalent of a teardrop fully rounded with no point), no pinch, and a narrow brim. For me, a Western with a Telescopic Crown is a different animal, in the same way as a Homberg may share a crown style with a fedora, but that different brim makes it something else. Given the lack of any definitive, normative standards, it does indeed lead to some ambiguity. Which, I suppose, there has long been with hats: where does a Jacobite bonnet stop being a Jacobite bonnet and become a beret, or a Tam O'Shanter? That sort of thing.

As ever, it's fascinating how similar tropes crop up no matter what the hobby. Not so long ago, I was involved in a discussion on a guitar forum as to what precisely constitutes a "Stratocaster". Two options there: either it's anything Fender designate as such, they owning the TM, or it could be a particular set of features. If another company entirely builds a perfect recreation of the original 1954 model, and Fender produce a new Stratocaster which radically alters the formula, which is a real Strat? Either? Both? Neither? As with electric guitars, so with hats.... The difference being here of course that as porkpie is a generic rather than a trade mark, the ambiguity doubles!

 

[hatsRme]

It's much like the old trilby/ fedora distinction, isn't it? I tend to agree myself that what makes a porkpie is the combination of, ideally, a sharp telescopic crown (or at least the equivalent of a teardrop fully rounded with no point), no pinch, and a narrow brim. For me, a Western with a Telescopic Crown is a different animal, in the same way as a Homberg may share a crown style with a fedora, but that different brim makes it something else. Given the lack of any definitive, normative standards, it does indeed lead to some ambiguity. Which, I suppose, there has long been with hats: where does a Jacobite bonnet stop being a Jacobite bonnet and become a beret, or a Tam O'Shanter? That sort of thing.

As ever, it's fascinating how similar tropes crop up no matter what the hobby. Not so long ago, I was involved in a discussion on a guitar forum as to what precisely constitutes a "Stratocaster". Two options there: either it's anything Fender designate as such, they owning the TM, or it could be a particular set of features. If another company entirely builds a perfect recreation of the original 1954 model, and Fender produce a new Stratocaster which radically alters the formula, which is a real Strat? Either? Both? Neither? As with electric guitars, so with hats.... The difference being here of course that as porkpie is a generic rather than a trade mark, the ambiguity doubles!

Pork pie hat are like porn, then. We may not be able to define them, but we KNOW one when we see it!

 

[glider]

Agreed, or how about a derby with a 3 1/2 inch brim, wouldn't that actually be an open crown western.

 

[Edward]

Pork pie hat are like porn, then. We may not be able to define them, but we KNOW one when we see it!

Don't tell that to the several English judges who got into a lot of trouble a few years ago for watching a lot of it in their private chambers, perhaps they just needed to be sure....

Agreed, or how about a derby with a 3 1/2 inch brim, wouldn't that actually be an open crown western.

Which itself calls into question what a derby / bowler is: some would say only a true, hard-crown is a real bowler and soft-crowns don't count - surely it can only be open crown if there's the possibility that it can be creased? Back on the merry-go-round we go!

 

[hatsRme]

To answer the thread title, I wear porkpies!

 

[Zombie_61]

I've spent a little time over the last two or three days reading here and there on the 'Net about Pork Pie hats and what some people do and don't consider to be "typical" characteristics. Regardless of whether the hat is made from fur felt or straw, two characteristics appear to define the hat--1) a relatively low-crowned Telescope crease, and 2) a narrow brim turned up all the way around the crown. After all, the style was named because the hat(s) resembled the English meat pie of the same name.

That said, there are a few "famous" Pork Pie hats that weren't restricted to these two characteristics. Buster Keaton's Pork Pie had a slightly wider and flatter brim than most, but many still consider it a Pork Pie. Many call Gene Hackman's hat in The French Connection a Pork Pie, but it had a pinch and shallow side dents at the front of the crown. Still a Pork Pie? How about the hat Carroll O'Connor wore as Archie Bunker on All in the Family? Low(ish) crown with a Teardrop crease, slightly wider brim turned up all the way around. Pork Pie? Trilby? Fedora?

 

[sebastian czentner]

I've spent a little time over the last two or three days reading here and there on the 'Net about Pork Pie hats and what some people do and don't consider to be "typical" characteristics. Regardless of whether the hat is made from fur felt or straw, two characteristics appear to define the hat--1) a relatively low-crowned Telescope crease, and 2) a narrow brim turned up all the way around the crown. After all, the style was named because the hat(s) resembled the English meat pie of the same name.

That said, there are a few "famous" Pork Pie hats that weren't restricted to these two characteristics. Buster Keaton's Pork Pie had a slightly wider and flatter brim than most, but many still consider it a Pork Pie. Many call Gene Hackman's hat in The French Connection a Pork Pie, but it had a pinch and shallow side dents at the front of the crown. Still a Pork Pie? How about the hat Carroll O'Connor wore as Archie Bunker on All in the Family? Low(ish) crown with a Teardrop crease, slightly wider brim turned up all the way around. Pork Pie? Trilby? Fedora?

Mine porkpie have a flat brim like buster keaton about 2 1/7" widhdt the telescopic creaase crown isnt so low like that of buster a couple of pages ago i posted mine, here i post again.

 

[quikrick]

I too wear Pork Pies on a regular basis.

 

[johnnycanuck]

I too wear Pork Pies on a regular basis.

And you sit look damn good in them.
Wear them in good health
Johnny

 

[hatsRme]

I've spent a little time over the last two or three days reading here and there on the 'Net about Pork Pie hats and what some people do and don't consider to be "typical" characteristics. Regardless of whether the hat is made from fur felt or straw, two characteristics appear to define the hat--1) a relatively low-crowned Telescope crease, and 2) a narrow brim turned up all the way around the crown. After all, the style was named because the hat(s) resembled the English meat pie of the same name.

That said, there are a few "famous" Pork Pie hats that weren't restricted to these two characteristics. Buster Keaton's Pork Pie had a slightly wider and flatter brim than most, but many still consider it a Pork Pie. Many call Gene Hackman's hat in The French Connection a Pork Pie, but it had a pinch and shallow side dents at the front of the crown. Still a Pork Pie? How about the hat Carroll O'Connor wore as Archie Bunker on All in the Family? Low(ish) crown with a Teardrop crease, slightly wider brim turned up all the way around. Pork Pie? Trilby? Fedora?

Hey, Alex! The pork pie talk has taken on new life, and that’s always good.

Although most of us think of the style as a brim up hat, I submit the following in support of snapped fronts…


Here’s what wiki said: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Pork_pie_hat

 

[Zombie_61]

Hey, Alex! The pork pie talk has taken on new life, and that’s always good.

Although most of us think of the style as a brim up hat, I submit the following in support of snapped fronts…
View attachment 354543 View attachment 354544

Here’s what wiki said: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Pork_pie_hat

That Wikiwand page was one of the ones I read. As you wrote earlier, we know one when we see it. I think I'm personally not in favor of calling a hat with it's a brim snapped down a pork pie simply because in my mind that snapped brim signifies a Trilby or a Fedora regardless of the crease. But that's just me, and if/when I see someone wearing a Telescope crease with a snapped brim I'm not about to argue whatever they call it.

 

[TheGuitarFairy]

Really enjoyed looking through this thread! Only hat I have that <might> qualify is my dark horse Borsa La Fuzzaro. To be perfectly honest I've always been afraid I was blaspheming by putting this bash to this survivor but I've never felt comfortable rocking what I consider the more typical bashes from the 30s. I've always loved the flat or brim up, "open hands" and "wide eyed" look, more.

 

[Mm25]

Really enjoyed looking through this thread! Only hat I have that <might> qualify is my dark horse Borsa La Fuzzaro. To be perfectly honest I've always been afraid I was blaspheming by putting this bash to this survivor but I've never felt comfortable rocking what I consider the more typical bashes from the 30s. I've always loved the flat or brim up, "open hands" and "wide eyed" look, more.
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Actually, that looks incredible!
Great job.

 

[sebastian czentner]

In resumen porkpie hat is a wide category can have stingy and curled brims or wide flat brims that distinguish this kind of hat is the telescopic crown being oval,round or diamond. However not every hat with a telecospic crown crease is a porkpie, can be a fedora or as deadlyhandsomeman a western hat.

 

[sebastian czentner]

i would try make a porkpie buster keaton style from a fedora that is ruined, using the keaton recipe would post it when finished. Dont be harsh my first time reblocking a hat.

 

[sebastian czentner]

Okay this is my take at buster keaton type of hat dont be harsh please.

 

[Zombie_61]

Buster Keaton is reported to have hand creased more than 1,000 hats during his career...

...and he clearly had a specific "look" he wanted. I don't know how he got hats with such low crowns to stay on his head, but he made it work.

Okay this is my take at buster keaton type of hat dont be harsh please.

If you're attempting a replica of one of Buster Keaton's hats I think you'll need to lower the crown quite a bit more. That said, I like your hat as you've creased it.

 

[jlee562]

I have not seen the video posted by JLee, I will see if I can find it. I may have to give the telescope method that JW showed me years ago a try. Something that I personally like in a pork pie is a flat top on the crown. I have seen other telescope methods that essentially use a smaller block or even a balloon to do the telescope and those give a more rounded crown.

It doesn't end up super-duper flat, but here is the insta link: https://www.instagram.com/p/0YAUEKwS5t/?utm_medium=copy_link

 

[sebastian czentner]

Buster Keaton is reported to have hand creased more than 1,000 hats during his career...

...and he clearly had a specific "look" he wanted. I don't know how he got hats with such low crowns to stay on his head, but he made it work.

If you're attempting a replica of one of Buster Keaton's hats I think you'll need to lower the crown quite a bit more. That said, I like your hat as you've creased it.

Yeah i lowered that i could, its the closer ican make a replica, is my first try, with practice, maybe i reach that level , ah and more fedoras lol. thanks for the compliment.