Who needs four-wheel drive? Offroading in the Golden Era.

[79CJ]

I see you're from CA, is this some sort of trip you can take over in France, rent a Jeep and drive it around to the Normandy invasion sites? If so, I'm having a hard time thinking of a cooler vacation.

Our favorite (and first) vintage 4wd trip. The GPW has a pretty crude 4wd system by modern standards. Three modes: 2 hi, 4 hi, and 4 low. The front hubs are locked so the front axle is always turning, even in 2 hi. There is no center differential so 4wd is for off-road use only. Front and rear diffs are open. Still, it's pretty capable owing to its light weight and high gear reduction. We only got it stuck once, in a ditch near the drop zones west of Sainte-Mere-Eglise, when we pulled over to let a convoy pass.

 

[StraightEight]

I see you're from CA, is this some sort of trip you can take over in France, rent a Jeep and drive it around to the Normandy invasion sites? If so, I'm having a hard time thinking of a cooler vacation.

I don't know of any company that rents jeeps, but perhaps there are. It definitely be easier than what we did.

Our trip was a complex logistical operation that started seven months in advance. We bought ours from a guy near Stansted, UK the December prior through a website called www.Milweb.net and stored it at a friend's place near London. I made a trip over in February to drive it down to Kent to have it serviced and made ready for the trip. In June, my wife and I went over and did the trip. In August I re-listed it on Milweb and sold it to a guy in Arnhem, Holland who was doing the whole Bridge Too Far thing. I had considered shipping it home to LA but the jeep had shot up in value owing to a crash in the dollar, so the head won out over the heart. We're planning to go back in 2014 in a Dodge WC54 ambulance. I'm scoping them out now though it's a bit early to pounce on one.

You can have a lot of fun in Normandy with a jeep doing time portals like this one: Carentan's Rue Holgate, then and now.

 

[79CJ]

That's too bad you sold it, though it sounds like it worked out for you. I'm also dissapointed that you weren't on some sort of package you can purchase. You're right though, I wouldn't be suprised if there was.

Our trip was a complex logistical operation that started seven months in advance.

The 1st time they sent the Jeep over there happened under similar circumstances... Great pictures though, it's always fun to see places old pictures were taken and to see them relatively unchanged.

 

[Hopson 1928]

One thing to remember about early Fords is that they were built for a county that did not have a huge number of paved roads. They were made to handle bad roads. Part of the reason for the ground clearance. Add to that the fact that they were simple to fix. Jay Leno drives one to work and talks about how it handles potholes that send modern cars to the curb with bent rims and flat tires They are tough. They still make every part for the cars today.

 

[DanielJones]

That's real neat with the then & now pics. Nice to see a lot of the original buildings are still there.

Cheers!

Dan

 

[Mr. Godfrey]

VW Kübelwagen

Well I drive a Land Rover but should I ever have the money or get divorced then my off road of choice would be a VW Kübelwagen
I love the style of these cars and seeing them drive offroad!!! GREAT.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7UfmZhmhSc

We are talking about a 60 year old car here.

I have often wondered how the likes of John Wayne would manage to jump out of a Willys Jeep. I am a large portly chap but then Mr Wayne was a tall chap too. I found it hard to get in and out of due to the steering wheel and the gap between the seat. It's a sort of legs in and slide, I could not jump out as they do in the movies (I am sure they use a smaller steering wheel) but would be grateful if any Jeep owners could tell me if there was a standard size wheel or size variants?

 

[Mojave Jack]

It's certainly been my experience that it is more about the driver than the vehicle.

Earl and Ann Morris, archaeologists who worked in the Southwest during the '20s and '30s, drove Old Joe, a Ford Model T, all over the Southwestern deserts, packed like this:

Not that it never got stuck, mind you.

Ralph Bagnold and his crew also tooled around the Libyan Desert in Model Ts, in search of the Zurzura Oasis. In the process he invented, amongst other things, the radiator overflow tank. Roy Chapman Andrews explored the Gobi in Chrysler touring cars.

Here's my preference for exploring the desert:

Mine is the CJ2A, and the Land Rover belongs to a co-worker. I recently had a custom surrey top made for the Willys, but haven't gotten the right buckles for the straps that run to the footman loops, so I can't use it yet. I got a little tired of getting sunburned! Still working on getting those zebra stripes on it...

 

[John in Covina]

I have driven on the dirt roads in the Mojave and off onto what are just trails or two tracks. I have a 2wd Nissan pickup that did well except when we got to a few places where it was too steep to simply drive. An experienced desert rat would be able to take a 2wd in pretty much all places that a 4wd can go but there are a few situations where 4wd is necessary.

An interesting note is that most of the major offroad races are given a prior run thru by the competitors and even other team members in 2wd trucks. These 2wd trucks were set up for the race but only as 2wd. These pre-race trucks were and are the basis of "Pre-runners" and "Fore-runners" you see sold today at Toyota and Nissan.

As an aside, driving around in the desert in Spring with the wildflowers blooming is one of the most wonderful things you can do. The views tend to be breathtaking.

 

[NelsAnderson]

It's certainly been my experience that it is more about the driver than the vehicle.

Earl and Ann Morris, archaeologists who worked in the Southwest during the '20s and '30s, drove Old Joe, a Ford Model T, all over the Southwestern deserts, packed like this:

I wonder how much of the difference is just a matter of attitude...the early adventurer being more accepting of getting stuck and the need to dig out. Today we expect our vehicles to get us through (all too often with little driver skill!).

Another big difference is in the ease of getting dug out. A Model T Ford was a pretty light vehicle, somewhere in the 1200 pound range. Getting something like that unstuck is a lot different than any offroad vehicle we drive today.

 

[John in Covina]

I got to see one of the offroad jacks use like a winch to pull a stuck truck out and was amazed. Slow but it worked.

Skill and attitude definately takes you further than when they are lacking.

 

[David Conwill]

I just discovered another Silver Lake dune scooter:

In approximately this same era, up at the Sleeping Bear dunes, they used new '57 Oldsmobile convertibles with oversized tires!

-Dave

 

[scottyrocks]

I had a '77 CJ7. I know that in order for power to be transmitted to the front wheels, I had to manually turn the locks on the front wheel hubs. There were 3 differentials, I think, and the gear lever inside read 2, 4 high and 4 low. I had it figured that if I had th ething in 2, that the entire assembly in front of the center differential was free wheeling. If I put it in either 4, then the front drive shaft and front axles would spin, and if I locked the front hubs, the power would finally reach the wheels. Is this correct?

My dad had an '87 K5 Blazer, and after his auto-locking wheel hubs failed a second time, he had them replaced with what manual lockers like I had.

 

[NelsAnderson]

I had a '77 CJ7. I know that in order for power to be transmitted to the front wheels, I had to manually turn the locks on the front wheel hubs. There were 3 differentials, I think, and the gear lever inside read 2, 4 high and 4 low. I had it figured that if I had th ething in 2, that the entire assembly in front of the center differential was free wheeling. If I put it in either 4, then the front drive shaft and front axles would spin, and if I locked the front hubs, the power would finally reach the wheels. Is this correct?

Yes, that's how it works.

 

[David Conwill]

In that vein, any Jeepers know whether locking hubs have been a feature on Jeeps since the MB, and if not when they debuted?

-Dave

 

[scottyrocks]

Yes, that's how it works.

Thank you.

 

[MPicciotto]

In that vein, any Jeepers know whether locking hubs have been a feature on Jeeps since the MB, and if not when they debuted?

-Dave

Free wheeling hubs are a dealer or after market accessory for Jeeps. The MB and subsequent CJ's had neither auto lockers nor manual hubs. But fixed hubs that the front axle and drive shaft rotated when the vehicle was in motion, just wasn't powered until the T-case was engaged. Locking hubs, be they manual or auto eliminated that motion and reduced wear on vehicles that spent 99% of their time on road in 2-wheel drive.

Matt

 

[Doublegun]

The biggest difference between 4WD and 2WD is how far off a paved road you are when you get stuck. I drive a 2002 Toyota 4Runner and run in 2wd most of the time but when I put her in 4wd and lock the diff that truck will go through and/or over just about anything.

Those old timers got through stuff because they had high ground clearance, were relatively light weight, and they had narrow tires.

 

[JohnnieT]

We see much of the same thing here in the Northwest. Lots of big 4x4 rigs that look suspiciously clean and even more large SUV's with a whole catalog's worth of accessories. My truck is not vintage, but at 30 years old it still does a serviceable job for a 2WD (and rear-wheel drive) vehicle. I use the same trails and logging roads as the Jeeps and 4x4's when I go hunting, fishing, or camping. I've never had an instance where 2WD failed to get me where I wanted to go. 4WD out here seems like a way for most drivers (but not all) to go places they probably have little business being in the first place.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

I hardly ever put my truck in 4x4, only when the snow's real deep on the roads. I have 8 70 lb sand bags in the back and that seems to do the trick. I usually end up putting it in 4x4 now and then just to exercise the parts, that's how little I use it.

 

[Creeping Past]

Ralph Bagnold

Here's Bagnold

And here are some Long Range Desert Group vehicles