Foofoogal
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He took away death and the fear of death.
Beth Moore is a respected author. I was just trying to make a point and I also find this a very civil conversation.
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Which religious group?
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He took away death and the fear of death.
Beth Moore is a respected author. I was just trying to make a point and I also find this a very civil conversation.
Masonjar
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Gilbey said:
I'm 37 so I haven't done much "preparing" yet! As far as I'm concerned right now, yes, I believe it's "lights off" - good night forever. It's the cycle of life. I intend to make the best of the life that I have left and make sure that my family is provided for in the case of my untimely demise.
I'm sure that if I knew I was going to die next week, I'd be a little freaked out about it. But at this point in my life it seems a waste of time to spend much time on it.
But, death is a mystery to us all, unless it turns out to be exactly 100% like you think it's going to be. I mean, in order for it not to be a mystery, you'd have to know the mind of God right? I tell ya, there sure are a LOT of people that think they have the key to what's going on in God's mind.
-Mason
Masonjar
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Gilbey said:You 've heard of the expression "scared to death" everywhere. Well honestly, if I didn't believe in Christ, that's exactly how I'd feel on my deathbed: I'd be scared to death of DEATH. For as far as this body is concerned that constitutes "ME", I know I'll be closed in a coffin and be buried 6 feet under. All alone in the dark under claustrophobic conditions in this box where I will rot and be eaten by worms, I think it's pretty scary
Yes, but, if you didn't believe in Christ, it would follow that death would be "lights out" - what's there to be scared of? You wouldn't feel the worms crawling in and out because.. you'd be dead..
-Mason
Bebop
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Gilbey said:
That is a great question, Gilbey.
I prepare for death by making sure my loved ones will be alright when I die. I don't take any day for granted. I make sure, to the best of my ability, that I leave no regrets or unfinished parts of my life. Death affects the survivors so deeply that I make sure my survivors have positive memories of me to carry through their lives. I live life. I do the best I can while I am alive. The unknown is not a "frightening mystery" to me at all. I have no idea what happens after we die. None of us have been there. People that claim to have died and "come back" have not died because to be dead means you don't come back (legal meaning aside). If you come back, you were close to death but not close enough to tell us what happens when you die. Obviously your brain did not die.
I understand that humans feel much better believing that they "know" what happens. Once again, in my opinion, it ties in with religion. As humans we desire answers and we feel much better when we think we have the answer. Religion provides the comfort of "knowing" what will happen when you die.
I believe it is as simple as "lights off". Your body stops running so your mind and brain stop working therefore you cease to exist. I am hoping and have faith that it is no different than when you go to sleep and are not aware of anything. [huh]
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John in Covina said:
Well if it's true that there is no such thing as space and time in the Spiritual world....or in God's spiritual kingdom....then,to me,...it would seem that our spirit would immediately enter the spiritual. The only thing sleeping would be what is left of the natural body and the connection with it. The Savior said that he was going to prepare a place for us. I would consider that a Paradise..or a holding tank(if you will) for some of us spiritually. From what I understand our bodies will be resurrected and rejoined with our spirit as changed perfect bodies at the second coming. Actual Heaven will be accessible to receive the completed person who previously accepted the Christ...only after the final judgement...and then for eternity.
Wadda you think..John in Covina..??
Foofoogal
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King James Bible
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.2 Cor:5:8
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.2 Cor:5:8
Masonjar said:
Suppose ... just suppose, somebody came back from the dead to tell us what it's all about. Would you believe him?? Most probably not. You'd probably think he's wacko and has gone the deep end. So even if God showed Himself to tell you, you probably still won't believe He was God after all. Next thing we know, He sends Himself in our likeness to speak His mind, but people still did not believe. Then He left us His inspired Word that stood the test of time, but still people did not believe. So what can God do now?? He's running out of options .
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carter
I'll Lock Up
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God is, "running out of options"?
How can man presume to know when, if ever, an omniscient, omnipotent Creator runs out of options?
Masonjar
New in Town
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Gilbey said:Suppose ... just suppose, somebody came back from the dead to tell us what it's all about. Would you believe him?? Most probably not. You'd probably think he's wacko and has gone the deep end. So even if God showed Himself to tell you, you probably still won't believe He was God after all. Next thing we know, He sends Himself in our likeness to speak His mind, but people still did not believe. Then He left us His inspired Word that stood the test of time, but still people did not believe. So what can God do now?? He's running out of options .
I'll believe it when the evidence moves me. There's nothing that you listed above that cannot be explained in some other way.
Near-death experience... it's an intense hallucination that people have when they're dying.
Jesus? Probably a very smart man, maybe even enlightened more than anyone alive at the time.. but, well, I can't take the word of fallible men who wrote books 2000 years ago.
The Bible? We're to believe it because it says it's word of God? Just doesn't work for me.
I need something more. I'm open to the idea. I just haven't seen it yet.
God should be able to do better, he is God afterall right? I understand that a lot of people have first-hand experience with their God, and that's fine. But it's not enough for me. No amount of "witnessing" will ever convince me. I need direct, personal evidence. I'm still waiting.
-Mason
carter
I'll Lock Up
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It doesn't seem to me that the Creator has any convincing to do. "I Am" pretty much says it all.
On the other hand, from the Christian perspective, the choices are clearly drawn.
1. Accept what is freely given and cannot be earned.
2. Reject what is freely given.
How long is the offer on the table? Until THE END.
From the perspective of other belief systems? I'd be interested in hearing from others on this?
Maj.Nick Danger
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Not so.Masonjar said:
I have had such an experience. I was about 25 years old, and not exactly dying, I was in perfect health, so it was not a stress induced hallucination. Nor was I in any physical danger at the time. It was similar in some ways to the experiences of others I had heard about, but different.
Foofoogal
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I truly respect MasonJar for your stance on this. I think we would be complete idiots to not.
I have tried from the start of this thread to convey this. When I say He is not only my God but my best loyal faithful friend I mean it.
At this point I am like a giddy school girl when I even think about Him. He has proved Himself that many times and I have seen that many miracles. Truly.
My eyes glaze over when people discuss things like Calvinism and such. I just know Him. I know Jesus as a child knows and trusts their parent when the parent is awesome.
When a mother or father stands and rocks a baby back and forth the baby doesn't worry if it is going to be dropped. They just trust.
Now I am like I said really curious as to how and why people think of God though.
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Well...you can't make someone sincerely believe. Isn't that the whole point?...the way it should be? The veil isn't lifted...or the blind "made" to see...by a long journey of solving proof positive or even observing a mirade of stunning "miracles". The change of mind may occur with simply exploring the "what ifs"..or perhaps seeing through to glimpse the heart of the matter. Just as two scientist struggle to "discover" that what they have faith in..may already truely be a reality....the labor may be only so "involved" by overlooking the simplicity of the final answer. Getting there was the problem. Who was confusing who? If you think about it..what is actually really proven? The sun came up yesterday...and today...and we have faith for tomorrow.
Foofoogal said:
I think of God because He is the reason of my existence. My life and the reason of my being is because of Him. I've often wondered even before I knew Christ as to why I alone felt "me". Why could I only feel me? Why can't I feel ME in the other person? Why is ME in this body? Who is this "ME"? Why is me ME? You are YOU and I am ME, but you also feel that you are yourself and may ask yourself the question too: Who is ME? If I feel ME, and you feel YOU, then who is the real ME? Life is a mystery. Where are all the unborn that hasn't been formed into "MEs" yet?
This is getting too deep
The conclusion: Without God, there wouldn't be ME.
SamMarlowPI
One Too Many
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I'm with most...just up in the air...[huh]
A Vintage Hell Story
One of the most interesting cases of resuscitation that ever came to my knowledge was that of George Lennox, a notorious horse-thief of Jefferson County. He was serving his second term. Sedgwick County sent him to the prison, the first time for a similar offense--stealing horses.
During the winter of 1887 and 1888, he worked in the coal mines. The place where he was laboring seemed dangerous to him. He reported the fact to the officer in charge, who made an examination, and deciding that the room was safe, ordered Lennox back to his work. The convict, obeying, had not continued his work more than an hour, when the roof fell in and completely buried him. He remained in this condition fully two hours. Missed at dinner-time, a search was instituted for the absent convict, and he was found under this heap of rubbish. Life seemed extinct. He was taken to the top, and on examination by the prison physician was pronounced dead. His remains were carried to the hospital, where he was washed and dressed preparatory for interment. His coffin was made and brought into the hospital. The chaplain had arrived to perform the last sad rites prior to burial. A couple of prisoners were ordered by the hospital steward to lift the corpse from the boards and carry it across the room and place it in the coffin. They obeyed, one at the head and the other at the feet, and were about half way across the room when the one who was at the head accidentally stumbled over a cuspidor, lost his balance, and dropped the corpse. The head of the dead man struck the floor, and to the utter surprise and astonishment of all present, a deep groan was heard. Soon the eyes opened, and other appearances of life were manifested. The physician was immediately sent for, and by the time he arrived, some thirty minutes, the dead man had called for a cup of water, and was in the act of drinking when the physician arrived. The coffin was at once removed, and later on was used to bury another convict in. His burial robes were also taken from him, and the prison garb substituted. On an examination he was found to have one of his legs broken in two places, and was otherwise bruised. He remained in the hospital some six months, and again went to work. I learned of his peculiar experience while apparently dead, soon after, from a fellow miner. Prompted by curiousity, I longed for an acquaintance with Lennox to get his experience from his own lips. This opportunity was not offered for several months. At last it came. After being removed from the mines I was detailed to one of the prison offices to make out some annual reports. The subject of this man's return to life was being discussed one day, when he happened to pass by the office door and was pointed out to me. It was not long until I had a note in his hand, and asked him to come where I was at work. He did so, and here I got well acquainted with him, and from his own lips received his wonderful story. He is a young man, probably not over thirty years of age. He is not a hardened criminal; is possessed of a very good education, and naturally very bright.
The most wonderful part of his history was that during the time he was dead. Being a short-hand reporter I took his story from his dictation. Said he: "I had a presentiment all the morning that something terrible was going to happen. I was so uneasy on account of my feelings that I went to my mining boss, Mr. Grason, and told him how I felt, and asked him if he would not come and examine my 'coal room,' the place where I was digging coal. He came, and seemed to make a thorough examination, and ordered me back to work, saying, there was no danger, and that he thought I was going 'cranky.' I returned to my work, and had been digging away for something like an hour, when, all of a sudden, it grew very dark. Then it seemed as if a great iron door swung open, and I passed through it. The thought then came to my mind that I was dead and in another world. I could see no one, nor hear sound of any kind. From some cause unknown to myself, I started to move away from the doorway, and had traveled some distance when I came to the banks of a broad river. It was not dark, neither was it light. There was about as much light as on a bright star-lit night. I had not remained on the bank of this river very long until I could hear the sound of oars in the water, and soon a person in a boat rowed up to where I was standing. I was speechless. He looked at me for a moment, and then said that he had come for me, and told me to get into the boat and row across to the other side. I obeyed. Not a word was spoken. I longed to ask him who he was, and where I was. My tongue seemed to cling to the roof of my mouth. I could not say a word. Finally, we reached the opposite shore. I got out of the boat, and the boatman vanished out of sight. Thus left alone, I knew not what to do. Looking out before me, I saw two roads which led through a dark valley. One of these was abroad road, and seemed to be well traveled. The other was a narrow path that led off in another direction. I instinctively followed the well beaten road. I had not gone far when it seemed to grow darker. Ever and anon, however, a light would flash up from the distance, and in this manner I was lighted on my journey. Presently I was met by a being that it is utterly impossible for me to describe. I can only give you a faint idea of his dreadful appearance. He resembled a man somewhat, but much larger than any human being I ever saw. He must have been at least ten feet high. He had great wings on his back. He was black as the coal I had been digging, and in a perfectly nude condition. He had a large spear in his hand, the handle of which must have been fully fifteen feet in length. His eyes shone like balls of fire. His teeth, white as pearl, seemed fully an inch long. His nose, if you could call it a nose, was very large, broad and flat. His hair was very coarse, heavy and long. It hung down on his massive shoulders. His voice sounded more like the growls of a lion in a menagerie than anything I can recall. It was during one of these flashes of light that I first saw him. I trembled like an aspen leaf at the sight. He had his spear raised as if to send it flying through me. I suddenly stopped. With that terrible voice I seem to hear yet, he bade me follow him; that he had been sent to guide me on my journey. I followed. What else could I do? After he had gone some distance a huge mountain appeared to rise up before us. The part facing us seemed perpendicular, just as if a mountain had been cut in two and one part had been taken away. On this perpendicular wall I could distinctly see these words, 'This is Hell.' My guide approached this perpendicular wall, and with his spear-handle gave three loud raps. A large massive door swung back and we passed in. I was then conducted on through what appeared to be a passage through this mountain. For some time we traveled in Egyptian darkness. I could hear the heavy footfalls of my guide, and thus could follow him. All along the way I could hear deep groans, as of some one dying. Further on, these groans increased, and I could distinctly hear the cry for water, water, water. Coming now to another gateway, and, passing through, I could hear, it seemed, a million voices in the distance, and the cry was for water, water. Presently another large door opened at the knock of my guide, and I found that we had passed through the mountain, and now a broad plain layout before me. At this place my guide left me to direct other lost spirits to the same destination. I remained in this open plain for a time, when a being somewhat similar to the first one came to me; but, instead of a spear, he had a huge sword. He came to tell me of my future doom. He spoke with a voice that struck terror to my soul. 'Thou art in hell,' said he; 'for thee all hope is fled. As thou passed through the mountain on thy journey hither, thou didst hear the groans and shrieks of the lost as they called for water to cool their parched tongues. Along that passage there is a door that opens into the lake of fire. This is soon to be thy doom. Before thou art conducted to this place of torment never more to emerge--for there is no hope for those who enter there--thou shalt be permitted to remain in this open plain, where it is granted to all the lost to behold what they might have enjoyed, instead of what they must suffer.' With this I was left alone. Whether the result of the terrible fright through which I had passed I know not, but now I became stupified. A dull languor took fall possession of my frame. My strength departed from me. My limbs longer refused to support my body. Overcome, I now sank down a helpless mass. Drowsiness now took control of me. Half awake, half asleep, I seemed to dream. Far above me and in the distance I saw the beautiful city of which we read in the Bible. How wonderfully beautiful were its walls of jasper. Stretching out and away in the distance I saw vast plains covered with beautiful flowers. I, too, beheld the river of life and the sea of glass. Vast multitudes of angels would pass in and out through the gates of the city, singing, oh, such beautiful songs. Among the number I saw my dear old mother, who died a few years ago of a broken heart because of my wickedness. She looked toward me, and seemed to beckon me to her but I could not move. There appeared to be a great weight upon me that held me down. Now a gentle breeze wafted the fragrance of those lovely flowers to me, and I could now, more plainly than ever, hear the sweet melody of angel voices, and I said, oh, that I could be one of them. As I was drinking from this cup of bliss it was suddenly dashed from my lips. I was aroused from my slumbers. I was brought back from happy dreamland by an inmate of my dark abode, who said to me that it was now time to enter upon my future career. He bade me follow him. Retracing my steps I again entered the dark passage way, and followed my guide for a time, when we came to a door that opened in the side of the passage, and, going along this, we finally found ourselves passing through another door, and lo! I beheld the lake of fire. Just before me I could see, as far as the eye could reach, that literal lake of fire and brimstone. Huge billows of fire would roll over each other, and great waves of fiery flame would dash against each other and leap high in the air like the waves of the sea during a violent storm. On the crest of these waves I could see human beings rise, but soon to be carried down again to the lowest depth of this awful lake of fire. When borne on the crest, of these awful billows for a time their curses against a just God would be appalling, and their pitiful cries for water would be heartrending. This vast region of fire echoed and re-echoed with the wails of these lost spirits. Presently I turned my eyes to the door through which I had a few moments before entered, and I read these awful words: 'This is thy doom; Eternity never ends.' Shortly I began to feel the earth give way beneath my feet, and I soon found myself sinking down into the lake of fire. An indescribable thirst for water now seized upon me. And calling for water, my eyes opened in the prison hospital.
"I have never told this experience of mine before, for fear the prison officials would get hold of it, think me insane, and lock me up in the crank-house. I passed through all this, and I am as well satisfied as I am that I live, that there is a Heaven and there is a Hell, and a regular old-fashioned Hell, the kind the Bible tells about. But there is one thing certain, I am never going to that place any more. As soon as I opened my eyes in the hospital, and I found that I was alive and on earth once more, I immediately gave my heart to God, and I am going to live and die a Christian. While the terrible sights of Hell can never be banished from my memory, neither can the beautiful things of Heaven I saw. I am going to meet my dear old mother after awhile. To be permitted to sit down on the banks of that beautiful river, to wander with those angels across the plains, through the vales and over the hills carpeted with fragrant flowers, the beauty of which far surpasses anything that mortal can imagine; to listen to the songs of the saved--all this will more than compensate me for living the life of a Christian here on earth, even if I have to forego many sensual pleasures in which I indulged before coming to this prison. I have abandoned my companions in crime, and am going to associate with good people when I am once more a free man."
One of the most interesting cases of resuscitation that ever came to my knowledge was that of George Lennox, a notorious horse-thief of Jefferson County. He was serving his second term. Sedgwick County sent him to the prison, the first time for a similar offense--stealing horses.
During the winter of 1887 and 1888, he worked in the coal mines. The place where he was laboring seemed dangerous to him. He reported the fact to the officer in charge, who made an examination, and deciding that the room was safe, ordered Lennox back to his work. The convict, obeying, had not continued his work more than an hour, when the roof fell in and completely buried him. He remained in this condition fully two hours. Missed at dinner-time, a search was instituted for the absent convict, and he was found under this heap of rubbish. Life seemed extinct. He was taken to the top, and on examination by the prison physician was pronounced dead. His remains were carried to the hospital, where he was washed and dressed preparatory for interment. His coffin was made and brought into the hospital. The chaplain had arrived to perform the last sad rites prior to burial. A couple of prisoners were ordered by the hospital steward to lift the corpse from the boards and carry it across the room and place it in the coffin. They obeyed, one at the head and the other at the feet, and were about half way across the room when the one who was at the head accidentally stumbled over a cuspidor, lost his balance, and dropped the corpse. The head of the dead man struck the floor, and to the utter surprise and astonishment of all present, a deep groan was heard. Soon the eyes opened, and other appearances of life were manifested. The physician was immediately sent for, and by the time he arrived, some thirty minutes, the dead man had called for a cup of water, and was in the act of drinking when the physician arrived. The coffin was at once removed, and later on was used to bury another convict in. His burial robes were also taken from him, and the prison garb substituted. On an examination he was found to have one of his legs broken in two places, and was otherwise bruised. He remained in the hospital some six months, and again went to work. I learned of his peculiar experience while apparently dead, soon after, from a fellow miner. Prompted by curiousity, I longed for an acquaintance with Lennox to get his experience from his own lips. This opportunity was not offered for several months. At last it came. After being removed from the mines I was detailed to one of the prison offices to make out some annual reports. The subject of this man's return to life was being discussed one day, when he happened to pass by the office door and was pointed out to me. It was not long until I had a note in his hand, and asked him to come where I was at work. He did so, and here I got well acquainted with him, and from his own lips received his wonderful story. He is a young man, probably not over thirty years of age. He is not a hardened criminal; is possessed of a very good education, and naturally very bright.
The most wonderful part of his history was that during the time he was dead. Being a short-hand reporter I took his story from his dictation. Said he: "I had a presentiment all the morning that something terrible was going to happen. I was so uneasy on account of my feelings that I went to my mining boss, Mr. Grason, and told him how I felt, and asked him if he would not come and examine my 'coal room,' the place where I was digging coal. He came, and seemed to make a thorough examination, and ordered me back to work, saying, there was no danger, and that he thought I was going 'cranky.' I returned to my work, and had been digging away for something like an hour, when, all of a sudden, it grew very dark. Then it seemed as if a great iron door swung open, and I passed through it. The thought then came to my mind that I was dead and in another world. I could see no one, nor hear sound of any kind. From some cause unknown to myself, I started to move away from the doorway, and had traveled some distance when I came to the banks of a broad river. It was not dark, neither was it light. There was about as much light as on a bright star-lit night. I had not remained on the bank of this river very long until I could hear the sound of oars in the water, and soon a person in a boat rowed up to where I was standing. I was speechless. He looked at me for a moment, and then said that he had come for me, and told me to get into the boat and row across to the other side. I obeyed. Not a word was spoken. I longed to ask him who he was, and where I was. My tongue seemed to cling to the roof of my mouth. I could not say a word. Finally, we reached the opposite shore. I got out of the boat, and the boatman vanished out of sight. Thus left alone, I knew not what to do. Looking out before me, I saw two roads which led through a dark valley. One of these was abroad road, and seemed to be well traveled. The other was a narrow path that led off in another direction. I instinctively followed the well beaten road. I had not gone far when it seemed to grow darker. Ever and anon, however, a light would flash up from the distance, and in this manner I was lighted on my journey. Presently I was met by a being that it is utterly impossible for me to describe. I can only give you a faint idea of his dreadful appearance. He resembled a man somewhat, but much larger than any human being I ever saw. He must have been at least ten feet high. He had great wings on his back. He was black as the coal I had been digging, and in a perfectly nude condition. He had a large spear in his hand, the handle of which must have been fully fifteen feet in length. His eyes shone like balls of fire. His teeth, white as pearl, seemed fully an inch long. His nose, if you could call it a nose, was very large, broad and flat. His hair was very coarse, heavy and long. It hung down on his massive shoulders. His voice sounded more like the growls of a lion in a menagerie than anything I can recall. It was during one of these flashes of light that I first saw him. I trembled like an aspen leaf at the sight. He had his spear raised as if to send it flying through me. I suddenly stopped. With that terrible voice I seem to hear yet, he bade me follow him; that he had been sent to guide me on my journey. I followed. What else could I do? After he had gone some distance a huge mountain appeared to rise up before us. The part facing us seemed perpendicular, just as if a mountain had been cut in two and one part had been taken away. On this perpendicular wall I could distinctly see these words, 'This is Hell.' My guide approached this perpendicular wall, and with his spear-handle gave three loud raps. A large massive door swung back and we passed in. I was then conducted on through what appeared to be a passage through this mountain. For some time we traveled in Egyptian darkness. I could hear the heavy footfalls of my guide, and thus could follow him. All along the way I could hear deep groans, as of some one dying. Further on, these groans increased, and I could distinctly hear the cry for water, water, water. Coming now to another gateway, and, passing through, I could hear, it seemed, a million voices in the distance, and the cry was for water, water. Presently another large door opened at the knock of my guide, and I found that we had passed through the mountain, and now a broad plain layout before me. At this place my guide left me to direct other lost spirits to the same destination. I remained in this open plain for a time, when a being somewhat similar to the first one came to me; but, instead of a spear, he had a huge sword. He came to tell me of my future doom. He spoke with a voice that struck terror to my soul. 'Thou art in hell,' said he; 'for thee all hope is fled. As thou passed through the mountain on thy journey hither, thou didst hear the groans and shrieks of the lost as they called for water to cool their parched tongues. Along that passage there is a door that opens into the lake of fire. This is soon to be thy doom. Before thou art conducted to this place of torment never more to emerge--for there is no hope for those who enter there--thou shalt be permitted to remain in this open plain, where it is granted to all the lost to behold what they might have enjoyed, instead of what they must suffer.' With this I was left alone. Whether the result of the terrible fright through which I had passed I know not, but now I became stupified. A dull languor took fall possession of my frame. My strength departed from me. My limbs longer refused to support my body. Overcome, I now sank down a helpless mass. Drowsiness now took control of me. Half awake, half asleep, I seemed to dream. Far above me and in the distance I saw the beautiful city of which we read in the Bible. How wonderfully beautiful were its walls of jasper. Stretching out and away in the distance I saw vast plains covered with beautiful flowers. I, too, beheld the river of life and the sea of glass. Vast multitudes of angels would pass in and out through the gates of the city, singing, oh, such beautiful songs. Among the number I saw my dear old mother, who died a few years ago of a broken heart because of my wickedness. She looked toward me, and seemed to beckon me to her but I could not move. There appeared to be a great weight upon me that held me down. Now a gentle breeze wafted the fragrance of those lovely flowers to me, and I could now, more plainly than ever, hear the sweet melody of angel voices, and I said, oh, that I could be one of them. As I was drinking from this cup of bliss it was suddenly dashed from my lips. I was aroused from my slumbers. I was brought back from happy dreamland by an inmate of my dark abode, who said to me that it was now time to enter upon my future career. He bade me follow him. Retracing my steps I again entered the dark passage way, and followed my guide for a time, when we came to a door that opened in the side of the passage, and, going along this, we finally found ourselves passing through another door, and lo! I beheld the lake of fire. Just before me I could see, as far as the eye could reach, that literal lake of fire and brimstone. Huge billows of fire would roll over each other, and great waves of fiery flame would dash against each other and leap high in the air like the waves of the sea during a violent storm. On the crest of these waves I could see human beings rise, but soon to be carried down again to the lowest depth of this awful lake of fire. When borne on the crest, of these awful billows for a time their curses against a just God would be appalling, and their pitiful cries for water would be heartrending. This vast region of fire echoed and re-echoed with the wails of these lost spirits. Presently I turned my eyes to the door through which I had a few moments before entered, and I read these awful words: 'This is thy doom; Eternity never ends.' Shortly I began to feel the earth give way beneath my feet, and I soon found myself sinking down into the lake of fire. An indescribable thirst for water now seized upon me. And calling for water, my eyes opened in the prison hospital.
"I have never told this experience of mine before, for fear the prison officials would get hold of it, think me insane, and lock me up in the crank-house. I passed through all this, and I am as well satisfied as I am that I live, that there is a Heaven and there is a Hell, and a regular old-fashioned Hell, the kind the Bible tells about. But there is one thing certain, I am never going to that place any more. As soon as I opened my eyes in the hospital, and I found that I was alive and on earth once more, I immediately gave my heart to God, and I am going to live and die a Christian. While the terrible sights of Hell can never be banished from my memory, neither can the beautiful things of Heaven I saw. I am going to meet my dear old mother after awhile. To be permitted to sit down on the banks of that beautiful river, to wander with those angels across the plains, through the vales and over the hills carpeted with fragrant flowers, the beauty of which far surpasses anything that mortal can imagine; to listen to the songs of the saved--all this will more than compensate me for living the life of a Christian here on earth, even if I have to forego many sensual pleasures in which I indulged before coming to this prison. I have abandoned my companions in crime, and am going to associate with good people when I am once more a free man."
Bebop
Practically Family
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Gilbey, what point are you trying to make with this story? [huh]
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I think one of the most intriguing personal accounts of someone claiming to have "passed over"..then returned to the living...was an old man's recollections from the late '70s on a TV talk show. He died on the operating table and while they tried to resuscitate him..he claimed to have these experiences:
He found himself in a scene of vivid colors..a landscape of the most beautiful blues...vivid greens. Of course he wondered "were am I?" His thought was immediately answered.."You are in the place I promised to make for you". Every thought he had was answered in this manner. Through all this...he noticed something in the background interrupting his thoughts. Since he had many questions...this never ending pleasant humming sound finally prompted him to think...what is that sound? Instantly it was answered" It is singing". He then realized that "everything" was singing in worship and praise to the Lord. After a while...he decided to reach down and pick one of the most vivid,radiant flowers that he had ever seen. The stem broke...and he noticed that it was dry..no juiceiness to it. He wondered.."why is it dry?"..."What sustains it??". The answer..."I am the living water..and sustain all".
He later claimed that he surely had entered Paradise...and in tune with the mind of Christ and emphisized that the reality we see here is but a pale mirrored copy of the real reality of the spiritual world which is much more vibrant and alive.
In this interview..he stated many more details of his experiences.These stand out to me after all this time. Had he really "passed over" to catch a glimps of what may be to come for some? Perhaps. Hopefully..??
He found himself in a scene of vivid colors..a landscape of the most beautiful blues...vivid greens. Of course he wondered "were am I?" His thought was immediately answered.."You are in the place I promised to make for you". Every thought he had was answered in this manner. Through all this...he noticed something in the background interrupting his thoughts. Since he had many questions...this never ending pleasant humming sound finally prompted him to think...what is that sound? Instantly it was answered" It is singing". He then realized that "everything" was singing in worship and praise to the Lord. After a while...he decided to reach down and pick one of the most vivid,radiant flowers that he had ever seen. The stem broke...and he noticed that it was dry..no juiceiness to it. He wondered.."why is it dry?"..."What sustains it??". The answer..."I am the living water..and sustain all".
He later claimed that he surely had entered Paradise...and in tune with the mind of Christ and emphisized that the reality we see here is but a pale mirrored copy of the real reality of the spiritual world which is much more vibrant and alive.
In this interview..he stated many more details of his experiences.These stand out to me after all this time. Had he really "passed over" to catch a glimps of what may be to come for some? Perhaps. Hopefully..??
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