when you dress in Vintage do you also think & act, talk like they did from the era?

[LizzieMaine]

And if that wasn't bad enough we have a contemporary culture that disdains such work. Today any bright young man or woman (no doubt with visions of a generous benefits package dancing in their heads) will instead aspire to a career as a cubicle-dwelling corporate hamster -- jobs whose skills don't seem quite as transferable as previously thought, which many have discovered these last few years.

This ought to be stamped on the back of every college diploma.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Personally I'd much rather be building or fixing something instead of busting my hump working on a report that very few (including the intended recipients) will ever read.

 

[vitanola]

One of my interests that relates to the Golden Era is technological and industrial history -- the history of various companies and their products. I know I've said this somewhere in another thread but I fear that even if we provided the much-needed tax incentives and regulatory reform to convince companies to stay in America or to come back home, the biggest challenge we would face is the almost insurmountable task of rebuilding an entire work force from scratch. Today the average age of an American-born factory or skilled worker is 55. In the nearly half century that we've transitioned from a manufacturing based economy to a service based consumer one, we have allowed the skills necessary for the former to atrophy. Very few schools offer shop courses anymore (why train for a job that no longer exists?) -- many Americans don't even know how to change a spare tire!

And if that wasn't bad enough we have a contemporary culture that disdains such work. Today any bright young man or woman (no doubt with visions of a generous benefits package dancing in their heads) will instead aspire to a career as a cubicle-dwelling corporate hamster -- jobs whose skills don't seem quite as transferable as previously thought, which many have discovered these last few years.

Note that the late Steve Jobs of Apple has explained that manufacturing will not return to this country. According to unamed Apple executives: "Going overseas, at this point, is their only option. One former executive described how the company relied upon a Chinese factory to revamp iPhone manufacturing just weeks before the device was due on shelves. Apple had redesigned the iPhone’s screen at the last minute, forcing an assembly line overhaul. New screens began arriving at the plant near midnight.

A foreman immediately roused 8,000 workers inside the company’s dormitories, according to the executive. Each employee was given a biscuit and a cup of tea, guided to a workstation and within half an hour started a 12-hour shift fitting glass screens into beveled frames. Within 96 hours, the plant was producing over 10,000 iPhones a day.

“The speed and flexibility is breathtaking,” the executive said. “There’s no American plant that can match that.”

We Americans cannot compete as workers in this new global market, for we are unwilling to work for a couple dollars a day WHILST LIVING IN A FACTORY DORMITORY. I don't believe that such living arrangements have been common in this country since the early days of the old Amoskeag Mills in the Jackson administration.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

And going back to the need for regulatory reform, even if Americans were willing to work for less they still wouldn't be considered a viable option simply because American workers come with LOTS of paperwork attached regardless of how much they're being paid.

 

[JohnnyLoco]

Note that the late Steve Jobs of Apple has explained that manufacturing will not return to this country. According to unamed Apple executives: "Going overseas, at this point, is their only option. One former executive described how the company relied upon a Chinese factory to revamp iPhone manufacturing just weeks before the device was due on shelves. Apple had redesigned the iPhone’s screen at the last minute, forcing an assembly line overhaul. New screens began arriving at the plant near midnight.

A foreman immediately roused 8,000 workers inside the company’s dormitories, according to the executive. Each employee was given a biscuit and a cup of tea, guided to a workstation and within half an hour started a 12-hour shift fitting glass screens into beveled frames. Within 96 hours, the plant was producing over 10,000 iPhones a day.

“The speed and flexibility is breathtaking,” the executive said. “There’s no American plant that can match that.”

We Americans cannot compete as workers in this new global market, for we are unwilling to work for a couple dollars a day WHILST LIVING IN A FACTORY DORMITORY. I don't believe that such living arrangements have been common in this country since the early days of the old Amoskeag Mills in the Jackson administration.

Very interesting point. Will there come a day when Americans are so desperate for work that they will work all night on a biscuit and a cup of tea? I'm not even saying that they should, but it is a large part of mega consumerism that there must be somebody in the world who is. That is what I have a problem with.

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

Note that the late Steve Jobs of Apple has explained that manufacturing will not return to this country. According to unamed Apple executives: "Going overseas, at this point, is their only option. One former executive described how the company relied upon a Chinese factory to revamp iPhone manufacturing just weeks before the device was due on shelves. Apple had redesigned the iPhone’s screen at the last minute, forcing an assembly line overhaul. New screens began arriving at the plant near midnight.

A foreman immediately roused 8,000 workers inside the company’s dormitories, according to the executive. Each employee was given a biscuit and a cup of tea, guided to a workstation and within half an hour started a 12-hour shift fitting glass screens into beveled frames. Within 96 hours, the plant was producing over 10,000 iPhones a day.

“The speed and flexibility is breathtaking,” the executive said. “There’s no American plant that can match that.”

We Americans cannot compete as workers in this new global market, for we are unwilling to work for a couple dollars a day WHILST LIVING IN A FACTORY DORMITORY. I don't believe that such living arrangements have been common in this country since the early days of the old Amoskeag Mills in the Jackson administration.

This is because those workers simply have no choice in the matter. The communists are in complete control of everything and everyone.
For an Apple executive to praise that, is well,...self-serving at best. Really it's disgusting. We are supposedly all about freedom and equality and democracy,...and yadda etc. But the corporations and their pursuit of the almighty dollar seem to turn a blind eye to the fact that the commies are using political prisoners to manufacture cheap goods and take our wealth, that they are NOT our friends, and have always been conspiring to destroy all us running-dog-lackey capitalists.
I think they are succeeding by leaps and bounds now by deviously playing upon corporate greed and the rampant consumerism that plagues us.
I fear we are being herded into a socialist state "new world order" the likes of George Orwell's 1984, and we are headed there because of the adoration of "wealth" by a few selfish and short-sighted concerns.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Very interesting point. Will there come a day when Americans are so desperate for work that they will work all night on a biscuit and a cup of tea? I'm not even saying that they should, but it is a large part of mega consumerism that there must be somebody in the world who is. That is what I have a problem with.

As long as the slaves are "those other people," Americans will find a way to rationalize it.

*Nobody* should have to work 12 hours a day for a biscuit and a cup of tea so some prat on the other side of the world can watch "Glee" reruns while sipping a latte in a coffeehouse somewhere. A system that profits from that is as foul, vile, and immoral as the system that herds the slaves into the factories and leases them out to be exploited. The Spirit of 1937 was to stand up against such things. The Spirit of 2012 is to say "As long as the shareholders are happy..."

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

This is because those workers simply have no choice in the matter. The communists are in complete control of everything and everyone.
For an Apple executive to praise that, is well,...self-serving at best. Really it's disgusting. We are supposedly all about freedom and equality and democracy,...and yadda etc. But the corporations and their pursuit of the almighty dollar seem to turn a blind eye to the fact that the commies are using political prisoners to manufacture cheap goods and take our wealth, that they are NOT our friends, and have always been conspiring to destroy all us running-dog-lackey capitalists.
I think they are succeeding by leaps and bounds now by deviously playing upon corporate greed and the rampant consumerism that plagues us.
I fear we are being herded into a socialist state "new world order" the likes of George Orwell's 1984, and we are headed there because of the adoration of "wealth" by a few selfish and short-sighted concerns.

I think it was Lenin who once said that the last capitalist would sell them the rope that they hang him with.

 

[vitanola]

As long as the slaves are "those other people," Americans will find a way to rationalize it.

*Nobody* should have to work 12 hours a day for a biscuit and a cup of tea so some prat on the other side of the world can watch "Glee" reruns while sipping a latte in a coffeehouse somewhere. A system that profits from that is as foul, vile, and immoral as the system that herds the slaves into the factories and leases them out to be exploited. The Spirit of 1937 was to stand up against such things. The Spirit of 2012 is to say "As long as the shareholders are happy..."

Miss Maine, the "Spirit of 1937" is unknown to so many "moderns", even (perhaps especially) to many of those who are attracted to their idea of the culture of the time. Today, many know the period only through old moving pictures and modern revisionist histories, which either include fabricated quotations and such foolishness as the assertion that the American economy was in considerably worse shape in 1936 than it was in 1932, or which make out charlatans such as Father Divine (who claimed to be God, remember!), Samuel Insull, and Andy Mellon to be great American heros.

The true voices of the period have faded almost to inaudibility. Is there any wonder why the genius of those days is so badly misunderstood?

 

[LizzieMaine]

Today, many know the period only through old moving pictures and modern revisionist histories, which either include fabricated quotations and such foolishness as the assertion that the American economy was in considerably worse shape in 1936 than it was in 1932, or which make out charlatans such as Father Divine (who claimed to be God, remember!), Samuel Insull, and Andy Mellon to be great American heros.

I await at any moment the rehabilitation of Father Coughlin, Gerald L. K. Smith, Elizabeth Dilling, and William Dudley Pelley.

 

[JohnnyLoco]

This is because those workers simply have no choice in the matter. The communists are in complete control of everything and everyone.
For an Apple executive to praise that, is well,...self-serving at best. Really it's disgusting. We are supposedly all about freedom and equality and democracy,...and yadda etc. But the corporations and their pursuit of the almighty dollar seem to turn a blind eye to the fact that the commies are using political prisoners to manufacture cheap goods and take our wealth, that they are NOT our friends, and have always been conspiring to destroy all us running-dog-lackey capitalists.
I think they are succeeding by leaps and bounds now by deviously playing upon corporate greed and the rampant consumerism that plagues us.
I fear we are being herded into a socialist state "new world order" the likes of George Orwell's 1984, and we are headed there because of the adoration of "wealth" by a few selfish and short-sighted concerns.

And it is also funny that guys like Bill Gates and the late Steve Jobs are the first to call their critics "communists," when paradoxically communistic exploitation based on communal heteronomy and a lack of individual autonomy and rights makes the global economy possible.

 

[JohnnyLoco]

I await at any moment the rehabilitation of Father Coughlin, Gerald L. K. Smith, Elizabeth Dilling, and William Dudley Pelley.

Well it's been said before (I think it was Chris Rock of all people) that the rise of nationalistic social outrage and activism inevitably leads to antisemitism and hate-driven propaganda. I don't think any of us who were not around in the 30s could ever truly understand how ideologically mercurial America was in those days. Even fewer of us realize how powerful radio was as a rallying tool for ideologues and fascist (or Marxist) wannabees. The sinister power those creeps wielded makes Rush Limbaugh look like Bugs Bunny.

But if there ever were a real rebirth of the 30s activists movements, I don't necessarily think it would take the same form.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

I think there was a general belief held by many in the 1930s that democracy had failed and that communism and fascism (depending on your view) were seen as the wave of the future.

 

[sheeplady]

But the Chinese aren't really communists, not in the true sense of the word. My readings of communist writings have always led me to believe that a true communistic society has to be a democracy- government by and for the working class, rather than by a small faction of elite society. The Chinese have a dictatorship, and very little effort is made to actually equalize their society. When the recession hit, and many factories closed, the Chinese government put their workers on buses and just bused them out to the country and dropped them off. So much for caring about the worker.

That story about waking the workers up and making them work all night on a biscuit really bothers me. My understanding of their practices in their factories leads me to believe it may be a step above slavery (it may very well be slavery). The plain fact that it's treated like a miracle is disgusting. You don't praise evil. What a sick society that not only do we promote that and see it as "ok" we praise it.

 

[JohnnyLoco]

I think there was a general belief held by many in the 1930s that democracy had failed and that communism and fascism (depending on your view) were seen as the wave of the future.

This is probably one of the few similarities between then and now. Communism being replaced by European socialism and fascism by militarism. Also trying to reform government institutions and businesses, etc., instead of trying to reform people from the inside--new beliefs, values, standards, lifestyles, etc..

I like the FL because most threads usually begin with (moderately trivial) individual tastes and likes or dislikes regarding fashion and the sort, invariably extending to broader discussions of values, beliefs, social norms, ethics, politics, history, etc..

 

[LizzieMaine]

That story about waking the workers up and making them work all night on a biscuit really bothers me. My understanding of their practices in their factories leads me to believe it may be a step above slavery (it may very well be slavery). The plain fact that it's treated like a miracle is disgusting. You don't praise evil. What a sick society that not only do we promote that and see it as "ok" we praise it.

As long as "somebody else" does it and Americans pocket the profits, it's all part of the Invisible Hand Of The Market, worship of which is the One True Religion of the Modern Era. We can wrap it up in shiny words like "globalization," but you can spray perfume on a pile of manure and it'd still stink.

 

[Flicka]

As long as "somebody else" does it and Americans pocket the profits, it's all part of the Invisible Hand Of The Market, worship of which is the One True Religion of the Modern Era. We can wrap it up in shiny words like "globalization," but you can spray perfume on a pile of manure and it'd still stink.

There is definitely some truth in this.

 

[JohnnyLoco]

But the Chinese aren't really communists, not in the true sense of the word. My readings of communist writings have always led me to believe that a true communistic society has to be a democracy- government by and for the working class, rather than by a small faction of elite society. The Chinese have a dictatorship, and very little effort is made to actually equalize their society. When the recession hit, and many factories closed, the Chinese government put their workers on buses and just bused them out to the country and dropped them off. So much for caring about the worker.

That story about waking the workers up and making them work all night on a biscuit really bothers me. My understanding of their practices in their factories leads me to believe it may be a step above slavery (it may very well be slavery). The plain fact that it's treated like a miracle is disgusting. You don't praise evil. What a sick society that not only do we promote that and see it as "ok" we praise it.

Wow. I'm pretty sure that's not the definition of 'democracy.' It's not even the definition of communism/Marxism. American democracy is founded first and foremost on the concept of Liberalism, classically enunciated by John Locke: liberty or freedom of the individual is the most important political value. Second, the theory of the autonomy of individual moral responsibility provides a basis for human rights and serves to protect people from government interference in moral concerns. Third, Cartesian skepticism, especially over what is objectively valuable, prevents government from deciding what people should believe is ethically valuable or is religiously correct (communism is usually fundamentally atheistic). Finally, political authority is not inherently legitimated, it must be justified to serve to protect the inherent freedom and rights of man. According to American democracy, as Thoreau noted, as a citizen, if you do not believe a law or a governmental practice serves to protect and preserve freedom, then you are not duty bound to follow that law or even obey the government.

Communism/Marxism is not founded on any of these principles. No matter how egalitarian, ideal, or utopian their promises may seem to be, they can never prevent the exploitation of citizens and the widespread abuse of political power.

 

[Gene]

Communism/Marxism is not founded on any of these principles. No matter how egalitarian, ideal, or utopian their promises may seem to be, they can never prevent the exploitation of citizens and the widespread abuse of political power.

WELL said :eusa_clap

 

[LizzieMaine]

But if there ever were a real rebirth of the 30s activists movements, I don't necessarily think it would take the same form.

I was being sarcastic when I mentioned Elizabeth Dilling, one of the most notorious and vicious anti-Semites and home-grown Fascists of the thirties, but come to find out that not long ago a certain prominent cable-TV pundit enthusiastically endorsed her as an "American Patriot." There is truly nothing new under the sun.