when to wear your G-1...do you hear me!?!

[johnnyjohnny]

the Army/Navy came up with some great jackets, the a-2 and g-1...however, iN the Army or Navy, you can only wear these when the Army or Navy permits you to...per the Army Service Uniform Wear Policy...DO YOU HEAR ME SON!?!

The following are excepts from Navy and Marine Corps Uniform requlations which cover the wear of the Navy and Marine Corps G-1 leather flight jacket.

•NAVPERS 15665I Navy Uniform Regs SUMMARY OF CHANGES Jan 07
•
6803.2b(2). – Changed “(2) Brown Leather Jacket. Naval aviators, pilots, flight officers, undergraduate pilots, NFOs, and flight surgeons, Aerospace Experimental Psychologists, and Aerospace Physiologists may wear the leather flight jacket with flight suits, Service Khaki, Working Khaki, Winter Blue, Winter Working Blue, Aviation Working Green and Navy blue coveralls. If wearing Avia*tion Working Green, the option is provided to wear either the leather flight jacket or the green uniform blouse. Eligible enlisted aircrewmen, E7-E9, are authorized to wear the leather flight jacket with flight suits, Service Khaki, Working Khaki, Winter Blue, Winter Working Blue, Avia*tion Working Green and Navy blue coveralls. Eligible enlisted aircrewmen E6 and below are authorized to wear the leather flight jacket with flight suits, Utilities, Winter Blue, Winter Working Blue and Navy blue coveralls. Only direct point to point transit is appropriate when the flight jacket is worn to and from work with work*ing uniforms (excluding Navy blue coveralls, which may be worn in immediate working spaces only). Close zipper at least 3/4 of the way when worn. Management and control of leather flight jackets are outlined in <OPNAVINST 10126.4 series>.” (Jul 06 CD).
•
MCO P1020.34F MARINE CORPS UNIFORM REGULATIONS
•
7005. FLIGHT CLOTHING
1. Aviation clothing and equipment will be as supplied by the U.S. Navy and by the U.S. Marine Corps. Such clothing and equipment will be worn only when and as prescribed by commanders.
•
2. The flight suit will be worn with flight boots, green/black cushion-sole socks, green/brown crew-neck undershirt, garrison cap, black leather nametags, and no more than two CNO/CMC-approved unit/squadron patches. The flight suit is authorized for aircrew members outside the working/squadron areas subject to the same regulations that apply to the utility uniform.
•
3. The Flight Jacket may be worn with the service uniform only by those Marines who have been properly issued and are required to maintain an authorized flight jacket according to existing regulations. The flight jacket may be worn with the service "B," "C," and service with sweater uniforms. These uniform combinations will only be worn on base, or while traveling in a private/government vehicle between local military facilities, or to and from a domicile. While traveling outside a military installation no stops are permitted. The jacket will not be worn when the service "A" uniform is considered more appropriate, nor will it be worn on leave or liberty, or with the utility uniform or civilian clothing. When the flight jacket is worn with the service uniform, only one unit/squadron (CNO/CMC approved) patch may be worn. The patch, if worn, will be on the right front of the jacket, level with the nametape on the left side.

 

[PADDY]

What's the reasoning behind this thread?

Jonny-Jonny...Would you please enlighten the rest of the membership in here as to the reasoning behind this thread starter please, so that we can all understand 'what' you are hoping from it..? Thanks in advance, Paddy M.

 

[johnnyjohnny]

thread explained

maybe it's just me, but i find fascinating the arcane rules and regulations that the organizations for whom the flight jacket is made and used by it's personnel would have such strictured and structured rules on how, when and where to wear these beloved pieces of u.s. avia history, when in fact the only reason these jackets (g-1 and a-2) are still PaRT of the u.s. military uniform array is because the actual personnel wanted them...the braSS at the top having tossed the a-2, and then diluted at one time the integrity of the g-1 (e.g. "in an effort to keep the costs of the G-1 jacket down, the Navy relaxed the specification to allow substitution of other leather material with a proviso that it had to have the appearance of the pebble-grained goatskin. The relaxed spec also allowed the mouton collar to be constructed of a synthetic material known as Dynel. The aviation community did not generally know these facts, and to their dismay, some aviators found this out when they swapped their older jackets for newer ones."--'charmed life of the leather flight jacket')

while so many of us find interesting the more abstruse aspects of a-2s, g-1s, a-1s and such, i find it just as fascinating that branches of service would impose so many rules on those serving their country on HoW to wear their leather jackets, when in fact the brass didn't want the things back in the military to begin with...again, a quote from a great article by dave parsons, referring to the prohibition on wearing leather flight jackets off base: "Aviators had to tuck their flight jackets under their arms as they left their cars until they were inside the fence. At NAS Cecil Field, the lowering of the flight jacket/flight suit out of sight of the guards prior to the gate led to the posting of signs ("Warning: Flight Jacket Removal Zone") along the highway to warn motorists of the potential hazard of weaving cars."

maybe i just find a bit too many things fascinating...if this is all gratuitous info please feel free to delete, i'll get the message

 

[Senicko_Spain]

Personally I find this thread very informative if it's rules and regulations of G-1 wear you are looking for. It sure beats another thread dedicated to poly core thread on brand X or stitch count on brand Y. I mean, come on at least it's something new.[huh]

 

[Spitfire]

As a follow up:
I read in a book on BoB, how the pilots went to London wearing their 1936 pattern flyingboots and Irvins. That way they were recogniced as fighterpilots and got lots of free drinks
Don't know if RAF had strict rules on that too though.

 

[PADDY]

It helps readers...

'If' the writer of a thread 'explains' their reasoning behind it and the type of repsonse that would help them. This includes 'me!'
Don't just willy-nilly throw some official information out into the forum in an abstract way, but rather explain what interests 'you' the thread starter about it and why 'you' felt it would be of interest to the other members..etc.

Trust me, it really does 'help' generate responses and interest and that's what I want to see on the forum, lots of interest and knowledge sharing in the vintage things that we love :eusa_clap

Back to business.

 

[Eyemo]

As a follow up:
I read in a book on BoB, how the pilots went to London wearing their 1936 pattern flyingboots and Irvins. That way they were recogniced as fighterpilots and got lots of free drinks
Don't know if RAF had strict rules on that too though.

I guess having the top button of Service Coat undone had a similar effect...


Interesting thread..

 

[Spitfire]

I guess having the top button of Service Coat undone had a similar effect...


Interesting thread..

Guesse the boots/Irvin just added a "hey we just landed" atmosphere - which again might have added even more drinks. nothing's too good for the defending heroes.

 

[Fletch]

Uniform regs have gotten much much more intricate since WW2. Nothing prohibited 8th AF aircrew from wearing their A-2s into the nearest town. In fact they were mostly "walking out" gear for these airmen, whose flight time was spent mostly at high altitude in fleece-lined clothing.

The Navy was always a bit stricter with flight clothes, altho you do see pictures of WW2 brownshoes wearing their aviation green uniforms in places they would not be allowed in later years, ie, where they might be seen by civilians. (In the movie Dirigible, made in 1931, one pilot even wears greens home to play a scene with his wife.)

 

[Aviator]

I'm glad their are regs...but I'm a bit of a uniform hard-a$$

The Navy, the Coast Guard, and the Marine Corps all have strict standards on wearing the G-1 flight jackets. Part of this is that strict uniform regs are part of the military, and help us look professional; if regs weren't spelled out, folks would try to get away with wearing them when something more appropriate was called for. And the list of who can wear them is there because when they were re-introduced many folks who had not "earned" them found a way to have them (hello, supply corps), thereby diluting their special nature.

 

[Senicko_Spain]

The Navy, the Coast Guard, and the Marine Corps all have strict standards on wearing the G-1 flight jackets. Part of this is that strict uniform regs are part of the military, and help us look professional; if regs weren't spelled out, folks would try to get away with wearing them when something more appropriate was called for. And the list of who can wear them is there because when they were re-introduced many folks who had not "earned" them found a way to have them (hello, supply corps), thereby diluting their special nature.

Supply Corps and Storekeepers

*Please note the Summer Nomex Flight Jacket

USS Harry S. Truman
Suez Canal
Maiden Cruise 2000

 

[Treetopflyer]

Out in Town...

The U.S. Navy allows wear of the G-1 Leather jacket with Khakis out in town and anywhere on base with a flight suit. The flight suit is not allowed to be worn off base accept in your car traveling home. It has been about 15 years ago that the rule of no flight jackets past the hangar was lifted. I agree with Aviator, if we didn’t have uniform regulations everyone would wear whatever uniform item they wanted. Then everyone would look like Tom Cruise with his Jeans, white T-shirt and G-1. Many new aviators do not know the history or heritage behind the leather flight jacket but it is something that catches on very quickly.
Talking with some WWII aviators, both AAF and USN, they say that they weren’t allowed to wear their flight jackets with civilian clothes either. It is not a new concept.

 

[tomsk]

Jonny-Jonny...Would you please enlighten the rest of the membership in here as to the reasoning behind this thread starter please, so that we can all understand 'what' you are hoping from it..? Thanks in advance, Paddy M.

A bit harsh, no? I think it's an interesting post as it is

 

[Senicko_Spain]

A bit harsh, no? I think it's an interesting post as it is

I understand both points of view. After speaking with Paddy I now understand better as to why he questions these types of threads. Direction is definitely paramount.

 

[kampkatz]

I appreciate everyone's comments. The history of "the proper use of flight jackets" is interesting to some(many?) of us. As a student naval aviator in Pensacola in the early 70's we were restricted to wearing the G-1 jacket(zipped most of the way) on base. Any other use was strictly forbidden and repeated abuse of the custom was liable to punishment. It is good IMHO that people have access to this info, expecially those who never served in the military and are able to simply don an A2 , G1, Ervin, etc, without being concerned about what to wear underneath. Thanks for the opportunity to contribute.

 

[johnnyjohnny]

EDiTing notes

first off, let me say this hasn't been the first time i've been edited, having spent 12 years in journalism as a reporter and editor myself...however, from paddy's private message to me on another post, i'll admit that he was a lot more tactful than most of the editors i had...and his points were in fact the same i got from some of my nicer former editors, that often i came out of left field...

still, i'll respectfully choose to say HeRe that my initial post had enough info to spark interest...but will also admit the thread got a lot better when i added the extra info in response to the challenge...also interesting that paddy said he was a former editor, so it's been a bit of back to the future here

as for the topic at hand, i used to think that walking around in my a-2 or g-1 and jeans, i'd be mistaken for someone who is serving...now i realize that wearing these leather uniforms marks one, to those who know, as definitely nO longer in the service...or breaking rules...

my question to the multitudes here on the lounge that seem to know this stuff is, if you served but are no longer in the military, are there any rules on wearing items like the a-2/g-1 etc?

 

[CBI]

Good points. I understand the regs, makes sense to me HOWEVER I/we PAID for this stuff. The taxpayer pays for this and has done so over the years. Frankly, I don't feel bad about wearing a G-1 even though technically, I am not supposed to. No, I am not saying that since the taxpayer paid for weapons that its OK for us to use them but I think you know what I mean. Men and women in uniform - past and present - THANKS for your service but there has been and continues to be SO MUCH wasted spending in the military and gov. that I think a little balance is needed. I guess we have it (balance) seeing as how I have not heard of too many civilians being fined for wearing flight jackets! My guess is that morale would even be higher if pilots could wear the jackets off base. The military has always been a bit behind in the PR dept. The worth of civilian "buy in" can never be overestimated.

I actually have a related question. Since the Air Force allows A-2's now (pretty crummy ones!) would it be OK for someone to buy an Eastman/Aero Leather/Goodwear/etc. and use that as their current service A-2? I understand there are (or at least were) no mil specs on the A-2 when it was re-introduced in recent years?

 

[HoosierDaddy]

No..I served...but now I can wear what I want...when I want...and practically where I want. My six years of active and inactive duty was completed long ago. The military no longer has any control over me.
However...if I were to wear full uniform and claim to be active military..it could be a different story. Nearly the same as posing as an FBI agent. Not cool....
HD

 

[johnnyjohnny]

SPeC-uLation

I understand there are (or at least were) no mil specs on the A-2 when it was re-introduced in recent years?--CBI

interesting stuff...as for there being no milspecs on the a-2 when it was reintroduced, officially in 1987 by act of Congress at the urging of military personnel, there were most, if not all, of the same specs as the ww2 a-2 originally had...throat hook, windflap, epaulets, one-piece back, no side-entry pockets...and i believe goatskin construction (no horse/steer as in ww2)

howeVaH...in the 90s the milspecs were relaxed to allow no throat hook and dual entry front pockets, i don't know about allowing steer or horse construction, which is why you can get some usgovt contract-made (and numbered) milspec jackets with side entry pockets and no throat hook...of course, with the reintroduction of the jacket, sizing changed

naturally there are a-2 jackets that didn't even fit those milspecs, or fit the original milspecs before they were loosened, where some manufacturers put contract numbers on the tag...i see a lot of old avirex jackets with 2 and 3-piece backs that have contract numbers...i'm sure these avirex versions were after the specs were relaxed in the 90s, but i don't know whether the multi-piece backs ran aground (to mix metaphors with the g-1) of milspecs even back in the 90s

but a current milspec a-2 jacket made by a current contractor will today have no throat hook and dual entry front pockets...excelled, sold by leathercoatsetc.com, is a govt supplier on this, and that's how their models are today, and cockpitusa makes a current milspec jacket that is the same...i have bought and definitely prefer their 1987 reissue a-2, which conforms to the milspecs of the a-2 when cockpt (under their former name avirex) brought back the a-2, working in tandem with the military

 

[CBI]

thanks for the info. Yes, I guess what I meant to say is that the specs (bascially bringing back the A-2) were pretty general and I have seen a number of the more current A-2's that are advertised as "current military issue" or as "currently isssued to the USAF". Any current USAF folks out there wearing an Eastman or Goodwear to work? What an upgrade!