There is a general coarsening of daily life in several directions that is alarming.
Indeed (to quote Teal'c).
There is a general coarsening of daily life in several directions that is alarming.
Several of the less-professional coat and tie only places when I was growing up would take a reservation and then would refuse to seat my parents because they had me with them. (My parents always told them they would have a child of such and such an age with them when they made the reservation, we always met the dresscode, and I acted like an adult). I even had this happen once when I *was* an adult (my parents being refused because of having a "child" with them) and had to show my ID card; we decided not to eat at that establishment because they were very rude about the whole thing, even after I proved I was over 18.
My parents stopped frequenting such places because of two things: these refusals to seat us once we got there and my father found out that many of these places seemed to often "lose" the reservations of some of the people he worked with. He only heard about lost reservations from people who happened to not look white.
I think people got tired of the unprofessionalism in my area. It's one thing to have rules, but you've got to apply the rules equally and be clear about them upfront.
Makes sense - when you're trying to attract a certain kind of customer by denying access to people said customer might not find pleasant to look at, where does the line stop?
On the other hand, if you're so desperate for customers or to appease the masses that can't be bothered to get dressed in the morning that you give up having any standards at all, where does the line stop? As I said, I dread the day that happens. At least the Health Department still requires a minimum amount of clothing on diners.
But not on chefs...
http://uk.lifestyle.yahoo.com/food-drink/naked-chef-debut-hong-kong-adult-channel-article-gf08.html
Ewwwwwww...
I guess we all have a "right" to show up to a restaurant in bathrobe and slippers wearing an adult diaper.
There are some groups where oversized, beltless pants are part of the "uniform" just as there are some groups where a suit is still expected wear for work. The problem here is that one specific group--the group that insists that they can wear whatever they damn well please wherever they are, no matter how inappropriate--has managed to convince the world in general that they should get their way....Which was, if I recall correctly, the point of the original poster--the lament that such lines are no longer being drawn. There was a time when the desired ambiance of a nice restaurant was one that allowed the quiet enjoyment of the company and the meal and the level of dress was part of that ambiance. Sadly, it seems that in today's society the "right" to be loud, obnoxious, and to dress in a manner that may make others lose their appetites has superceded the "right" of those who wish to have a nice dining experience in peace.
Seems like a promising show. It's not like they've got Paul Prudhomme or Mario Batali in the buff. There are oriental restaurants, sushi ones, I think, where your plate is a naked woman.
Actually, it already does just as it always has--it just depends upon the social group as to what it is. There are some groups where oversized, beltless pants are part of the "uniform" just as there are some groups where a suit is still expected wear for work. The problem here is that one specific group--the group that insists that they can wear whatever they damn well please wherever they are, no matter how inappropriate--has managed to convince the world in general that they should get their way.
Which was, if I recall correctly, the point of the original poster--the lament that such lines are no longer being drawn. There was a time when the desired ambiance of a nice restaurant was one that allowed the quiet enjoyment of the company and the meal and the level of dress was part of that ambiance. Sadly, it seems that in today's society the "right" to be loud, obnoxious, and to dress in a manner that may make others lose their appetites has superceded the "right" of those who wish to have a nice dining experience in peace.
I do not think of this as progress, nor is it truly the advancement of anyone's "rights."
Regards,
Tom
Sadly, it seems that in today's society the "right" to be loud, obnoxious, and to dress in a manner that may make others lose their appetites has superceded the "right" of those who wish to have a nice dining experience in peace.
Regards,
Tom
I guess some of what bothers me about this discussion that dress correlates with "manners" or "class." While I fully agree that there are some things that probably shouldn't be worn out in public, if you're not in my house or my family or my establishment or are not my employee, it is none of my business what you wear. If you fall into any of those categories, then I think I have a certain amount of leeway telling you directly (or indirectly) what you should wear. I think that people should take some pride in the way they look, but pride in the way they act is more important.
Agreed and welcome to our small club. The unfounded correlation between dress and manners/morals/dignity is an idea that pervades many comments and conversations here and has done so for a long time.
It is a fair enough discussion to compare the "Then versus Now". It is also fine to list your style likes and dislikes. I have a long list of style dislikes. Where the conversation loses steam is when someone jumps in and makes a superficial connection between dress and morals.
I was involved with a charity group which held two fundraisers a year; a black tie soiree in the winter and a come as you are Tiki themed party in the summer. Over the years I observed that the level of decorum was much higher at the black tie event even though the attendees were pretty much the same people. I've mentioned this occurrence to dozens of people in the party biz (event planners, venue owners, caterers, etc..) and most agree that there is a correlation between the level of dress and the level of civility. No science here, just an aggregate of personal observations.I really can't understand how "peace" has anything to do with dress. Loud and obnoxious comes in all shapes and sizes, and I can reassure you, in suits and ties.