What WWII games really need right now...

[Twitch]

There are plenty enough non-Japanese companies. In fact the majority are. What would be cool and different in any genre of WW 2 game is where the Germans or Japanese actually WIN the war instead of simply retire.

"They," whoever the hell "they" is, are afraid to do that as is it'll set some bad example. I still remember a game from 15+ years ago that did that and it was cool.

 

[Cobden]

I think the problem is WWII has, for want of a better word, been done to death. What I feel is needed is a good WWI game. No SMG's, no running around with machine guns firing from the hip, none of that. If structured well enough it could work. Instead of just infantry (which, in fairness, would be quite boring) have you play a varity of different people in each mission. One level your artillary, another an ack ack gunner, perhaps a flying mission, PBI at the somme, amphiboius landing at Gallipolli, Marine at Zeebrugge, underground hand to hand combat in a mining tunnel. It would have to be varied, but it could be done

 

[Jovan]

That sounds really good, Cobden. There could also be levels where you need to find and use a gasmask item to proceed.

I personally liked the part where you had to retrieve another soldier's leg bag in Call of Duty, though it would have been better if it was because your own leg bag had sheared off. That happened to a lot of the Airborne from what I understand. What would also be great is if there were levels where it seems hopeless and you actually have to work to get such equipment. Pretty much every level in WWII FPSs now ends with you surviving, achieving your objectives, etc. I personally wouldn't mind a level that ended with my capture and then getting myself out. Or where I lose my weapons entirely. For example, I was disappointed that you started with a weapon in your hand in the COD2 beach landing level instead of in the E3 presentation where the player had to find a Springfield.

 

[A.R. McVintage]

There are plenty enough non-Japanese companies. In fact the majority are.

That doesn't address the issue of not wanting to alienate a market share, though.

Germans have made Nazi related stuff illegal and have tried to distance themselves from it so that they enjoy things like Wolfenstein. Many (not all) Japanese seem to want to do nothing more than deny (which they got in trouble for with the international community a few years back when their history books all had the Rape of Nanjing "mysteriously vanish"--read: purposeful excizing) or whitewash, so the reason more Pacific set games may not be made is sheerly one of what will have higher numbers selling.

 

[twobarbreak]

I think the problem is WWII has, for want of a better word, been done to death. What I feel is needed is a good WWI game. No SMG's, no running around with machine guns firing from the hip, none of that. If structured well enough it could work. Instead of just infantry (which, in fairness, would be quite boring) have you play a varity of different people in each mission. One level your artillary, another an ack ack gunner, perhaps a flying mission, PBI at the somme, amphiboius landing at Gallipolli, Marine at Zeebrugge, underground hand to hand combat in a mining tunnel. It would have to be varied, but it could be done

WW2 has so many aspects, so many stories i don't think it could ever be over done as long as the realism,graphics and game play gets better and better.

however, you brought up WW1...we've no doubt pondered this over the years, and i agree this could be a great game. Although there are plenty of flying fans out there, it's the infantry aspect that make them successful.

in COD there was a few real nice trench maps that were created with WW1 battlefield in mind. I played these maps on "bolt action rifles" server and couldn't help but a imagine a WW1 FPS.

many of the aspects such as teargas was already in COD, and adding Bayonets for hand to hand would be awesome...

once you have a good game engine that plays really well, your half way there. then it's time to make models,do the skins,make some maps and script a menu...and walla, a full conversion game is made. If it's good enough a game company will take advantage a do an official release...just like red orchestra.

 

[twobarbreak]

There are plenty enough non-Japanese companies. In fact the majority are. What would be cool and different in any genre of WW 2 game is where the Germans or Japanese actually WIN the war instead of simply retire.

"They," whoever the hell "they" is, are afraid to do that as is it'll set some bad example. I still remember a game from 15+ years ago that did that and it was cool.

I think one issue "might" be making the Japanese characters, and how un-Politically correct it would be for a company to make.

cod as it's released is basically a bunch of white people killing each other, so who's going to complain?

on another note, German Front Mod for cod was pretty cool, playing a game from the german side of things...I'll tell you that it was pretty hard to hold off the invaders on the beach...lol

 

[Twitch]

In Germany it is only illegal to use the image of the swastika. The WW 2 games are not a problem. Where a swastika is normally used, in German games and simulation versions they substitute a maltese cross.

The Japanese on the other hand are a bit more skiddish on depiction of them in WW 2 since they have sanitized their text books to give the impression to young people that the US started the conflict.

Most of companies are global and production teams are international. And today that can mean 12 people spread across 4 countries. I don't see why there would be any problem with say, a European company creating a game that has aspects of the Pacific war involving pixels that depict Japanese!

All of the neat idea you guys suggest would/could work in gameplay. It simply comes down to now much time the production team has to create, test and retest.

How many missions does the story line support? How complex can they be relative to time constraints of release dates? Will a larger arsenal of weapons detract from gameplay or enhance it? Is it too complicated for the casual player? What about ballistics, vehicle specifications and performance plus physics? Is it necessary to tweak the "real" for gameplay sake? Is this game/sim a mimic of another company's? Was is cobbled together as a short term solution to another company's earlier release? Is the specific game era and genre over-saturated? Most impostant -is it modable?

These and a lot more questions have to be answered with each title. The bottom line is we all want stable games that are complex enough to keep us interested but not so difficult or lame to be quit in disgust. and i can't think of any truly "great"game/sim that was unmodable to increase it longevity.

 

[twobarbreak]

ok, after further investigation of cod4...

it plays very good, on both console (xbox 360) and PC...

aside from the graphics which are insanely impressive, the game play is great.

haven't torn into the engine yet to see what's possible but i have a feelings as to what will be possible in Multiplayer.

obviously custom maps, of some of the places everyone on here as already discussed. euro ww2 maps, perhaps an Iwo Jima map etc..

server admins, will be able to limit weapons to accurate period play etc...

from there it's a matter of skins for accurate looks.

as for single player gaming, with missions will have to wait and see...

 

[KL15]

I think the problem is WWII has, for want of a better word, been done to death. What I feel is needed is a good WWI game. No SMG's, no running around with machine guns firing from the hip, none of that. If structured well enough it could work. Instead of just infantry (which, in fairness, would be quite boring) have you play a varity of different people in each mission. One level your artillary, another an ack ack gunner, perhaps a flying mission, PBI at the somme, amphiboius landing at Gallipolli, Marine at Zeebrugge, underground hand to hand combat in a mining tunnel. It would have to be varied, but it could be done

Could you create a game about WWI? I've wondered this myself, but was unsure how interesting a game where you are bogged down in trench warfare would be.

 

[Jovan]

There's a HL (and HL2...?) mod called The Trenches which is based on WWI.

 

[Cobden]

Could you create a game about WWI? I've wondered this myself, but was unsure how interesting a game where you are bogged down in trench warfare would be.

That's why i think such a game would have to have different levels focussing on different aspects - so it doesn't get dull. You'd only need a few trench levels (as different things - machine gunner, PBI, officer perhaps), and then focus on different parts of the war.

If there are any game designers reading this, I'm sure I and more then a few can help

 

[A.R. McVintage]

So, to make a better WWII game, you make it about a different war altogether?

"You know what'd improve this pie? If it were a cake!"lol

 

[Cobden]

There's no better logic then fuzzy logic [huh]

 

[carebear]

The Russian Front wasn't trench-bound, in the later war even in Europe you have less formal "trench" defenses and more defense in depth.

Trench raids are small-unit night "stealthy actions" and the later war German strongpoint defense and stormtrooper infiltration tactics could be interesting.

In good miniature wargaming, you can stack scenarios where your ability to do better or worse than the historical influences in the early episodes affects your troop strengths and positions later on.

 

[Twitch]

They'd simply do what is required to make any game playable. I used to take exception with combat filight simulation fans about "realism" when they were sitting on an office chair peering into a myopic CRT and using a plastic joystick! All that is "real" in any of it is some of the historical aspects- missions, names of people and places and relative differences modeled in vehicles or weapons by developers.

A WW I game would simply not emphasise trench war but have snipers, roving squads, tanks and air attacks. There hasn't been a WW I flight sim for many years but they were never boring with the ability to fly many planes and switch sides.

Once the developers make it playable it all works as it should. When they don't, it's a dud.