What would you wear?

[Senator Jack]

"Black Tie Optional" or "Black Tie Preferred" means that men may also wear dark business suits. "Evening/cocktail attire" means dark/dressy business suits for men: NO tuxedoes and NO dinner jackets

First of all, let's address the issue of business suits vs. 'party' suits. To my thinking, anyone who wears a business suit to a party or wedding is probably not a very festive person. Yes, there are some suits that cross the lines, but when I see a guy wearing the standard navy two-button at a party, I'm already thinking of how to get out of the conversation should I be trapped in one. These men tend to want to talk about computers, gadgets, and stocks, and that, my dear fellows, is not party conversation. To encourage men to be insipid isn't doing anyone any favors around here.

I have a great four-button double breasted, a blue pinstripe that I had copied in grey flannel. NEITHER is a party suit. They are day suits, meant to be worn in the office, and while I think they have great flair for business suits, were I to see myself wearing either of them at a party, I'd be sure to have an excuse to get out of that insipid conversation I was going to have.

Now, this thread was started by Maintcoder, whom I had the great pleasure to meet at the QM. He was telling me about his colleagues who had got on him about being dressed all the time, and I think I gave him my usual 'crabs in a barrel' speech. So now he's obviously worried about what's going to happen at the cocktail party and what people are going to say about him (Correct me if I'm wrong, MC). Again, I say 'WHO CARES?' No one says 'boo' about a schmedrik that shows up in t-shirt and jeans, but I have to be worried about wearing a tux? To hell with that. In this era of 'anything goes' the only person you should try to impress is your date or significant other. Just think of when you leave that party. Wouldn't it be romantic if the two of you were looking attractive to each other? Men (well, this man, anyway) likes to see a woman in a gown. Women, so I've heard, like men in a tux. Life is FAR too short to abide by rules dictated by the uninspired.

Regards,

Senator Jack

 

[Matt Deckard]

For a coctail party, a tuxedo is never overdoing it. You can wear a suit yes, though how often can I wear the tux?

If the paper says black tie optional I wear the black tie. You can be overdressed for someone elses wedding, though it's a party! Break out the cape!

 

[jamespowers]

Life is FAR too short to abide by rules dictated by the uninspired.

That is the most important part.

Regards,

J

 

[BegintheBeguine]

Don't worry. I'm sure you'll get your fill at Mondo Atomic!




Regards,

Senator Jack

Thanks for reminding me! Heart was pounding when I realized I hadn't booked my room yet. First thing tomorrow. What does 'black tie optional' mean again?

 

[Senator Jack]

It usually means I'll be the only one to show up in a tux. You better book that room tomorrow. I think they'll be selling out.

 

[Tourbillion]

So in my situation I was overdressed and therefore pretentious and incredibly vulgar.

Hmmm....

Yes, in fact, since most men today only now wear business casual or worse for day wear, by this line of reasoning you can only wear those vintage suits for dressy evening events.

 

[Veronica Parra]

So in my situation I was overdressed and therefore pretentious and incredibly vulgar.

What you did, for what it's worth, is flout the event's stated dress code. You weren't alone in doing so. Some guests underdressed and others overdressed. The underdressers came that way for various reasons: ignorance/misunderstanding of the dress code, a desire to show how informal they are, laziness, lack of evening clothes, discomfort with "dressing up", and who knows what else. The overdressers also had various reasons: ignorance/misunderstanding of the dress code, a desire to show how formal they are, a preference for "dressing up", and so on.

Pretentiousness is a bad thing. When you show up in a tuxedo at a company party whose invitation does not call for "Black Tie" or "Black Tie Optional", then you end up looking pretentious. There is a time and place for tuxedos; a company party with "cocktail/evening attire" isn't one of them, no matter how much you may wish it were so.

 

[Veronica Parra]

For a cocktail party, a tuxedo is never overdoing it.

If the cocktail party's invitation does not state "Black Tie" or "Black Tie Optional", then wearing a tuxedo is overdoing it. You will be perceived as someone who either doesn't read invitations closely enough, or who is desperate to show the world that you have a tuxedo to wear.

"If you've got it, flaunt it" is one of those expressions that should be drawn, quartered and burned.

 

[Lincsong]

I was at one of my clients Christmas parties last night. The only two men in tuxedo's were the owners of the company. Something I would expect from the guys who were footing the bill.

 

[Veronica Parra]

First of all, let's address the issue of business suits vs. 'party' suits.

Between the daytime business suit and the tuxedo, there is a middle stage: the formal suit. Usually in dark colors, usually made of finer wool, usually with more "stylish" details (a more tailored silhouette, as opposed to the standard Brooks Brothers daytime fare).

 

[Veronica Parra]

The only two men in tuxedo's were the owners of the company. Something I would expect from the guys who were footing the bill.

Or from the guys serving them canapes.

 

[Lincsong]

Or from the guys serving them canapes.

lol lol lol actually those guys were wearing guayabera (sp.?) shirts.lol lol lol

I did score points for the company since one of the owners told me I get the best dressed award. I replied; "now that's a compliment coming from a guy in a tuxedo".

 

[Veronica Parra]

The men's version of evening dress is a dinner jacket still isn't it?

In Great Britain, yes. In the U.S.A., no. An invitation in GB that says "Evening Dress" means a tux. If it says "Full Evening Dress", it means white tie and tails.

Here in America, invitations specifically say "White Tie", "Black Tie", or "Black Tie Optional". If the U.S. invitation says "Evening/Cocktail Attire", it means (for men) dressy suits, preferably in dark colors.

Flouting the invitation's dress code sends out the following signals: you didn't read it; you didn't understand it; or you simply wanted to flout it. What company likes to see employees deliberately snubbing its rules?

It sends a bad message: "I want to and I'm going to look (and thus act) superior, even if it means breaking the dress code ... because I'm above the company's rules."

 

[Tomasso]

Veronica Parra Knows !

 

[John in Covina]

Sour Grapes...

The term evening wear was synonymous with Tuxedos, while formal evening wear was indicative of a White Tie affair. In many circles a dinner jacket, tux with shawl lapel would be considered the right touch, snappy, dressy, and formal but not too formal. Anyplace where the dinner jacket goes a regular tux should be okay. I’d say it falls into the “dress like your going to wind up someplace more exciting than where you are at” scenario.

Anybody gives you a hard time tell them to read the Aesop’s Fable of “Sour Grapes” because any fool can despise what they cannot have.

 

[John in Covina]

In Great Britain, yes. In the U.S.A., no. An invitation in GB that says "Evening Dress" means a tux. If it says "Full Evening Dress", it means white tie and tails.

Here in America, invitations specifically say "White Tie", "Black Tie", or "Black Tie Optional". If the U.S. invitation says "Evening/Cocktail Attire", it means (for men) dressy suits, preferably in dark colors.

Flouting the invitation's dress code sends out the following signals: you didn't read it; you didn't understand it; or you simply wanted to flout it. What company likes to see employees deliberately snubbing its rules?

It sends a bad message: "I want to and I'm going to look (and thus act) superior, even if it means breaking the dress code ... because I'm above the company's rules."

Please list where this is published so we can post the rules for everyone!

 

[Tourbillion]

In Great Britain, yes. In the U.S.A., no. An invitation in GB that says "Evening Dress" means a tux. If it says "Full Evening Dress", it means white tie and tails.

Here in America, invitations specifically say "White Tie", "Black Tie", or "Black Tie Optional". If the U.S. invitation says "Evening/Cocktail Attire", it means (for men) dressy suits, preferably in dark colors.

Flouting the invitation's dress code sends out the following signals: you didn't read it; you didn't understand it; or you simply wanted to flout it. What company likes to see employees deliberately snubbing its rules?

It sends a bad message: "I want to and I'm going to look (and thus act) superior, even if it means breaking the dress code ... because I'm above the company's rules."

But what about when it is ambiguous like evening dress/cocktail attire?

I agree with you on modern cocktail attire, it used to be that men wore tuxedos to cocktail parties, but that is overdoing it these days. You might wear a tux to a cocktail party at the Astor's, but to a cocktail party of a young person? No way, unless the owner is a FL member.

However, for the company dinner when it says evening/cocktail attire and women show up in evening gowns they aren't overdressed, just as the men (like the CEO) aren't overdressed in their tuxedos, at least at my company's party. I wore a rather plain black cocktail dress myself, but all of the other ladies at my table wore floor length gowns.

It was at the Oviatt, at Cicada this year, so it was rather formal. When they had it at Papadakis Taverna a few years back, it was less so, none of the ladies wore evening gowns, more likely pant suits or dresses and the men wore suits or even just business casual.

 

[maintcoder]

Incredible, simply incredible...

What you did, for what it's worth, is flout the event's stated dress code. You weren't alone in doing so. Some guests underdressed and others overdressed. The underdressers came that way for various reasons: ignorance/misunderstanding of the dress code, a desire to show how informal they are, laziness, lack of evening clothes, discomfort with "dressing up", and who knows what else. The overdressers also had various reasons: ignorance/misunderstanding of the dress code, a desire to show how formal they are, a preference for "dressing up", and so on.

Pretentiousness is a bad thing. When you show up in a tuxedo at a company party whose invitation does not call for "Black Tie" or "Black Tie Optional", then you end up looking pretentious. There is a time and place for tuxedos; a company party with "cocktail/evening attire" isn't one of them, no matter how much you may wish it were so.

Madam, at this point I draw the line. You are making wide assumptions about me that are, in and of themselves, pretentious and ignorant. I do not see you listed as the 'authority' on all that is right and wrong in dress codes at any function. I will not bow low to you and your viewpoints - one whom was posted earlier as viewing all members of this lounge as pretentious for 'playing dress up' (I believe that was the remark in another thread - since removed, I noticed).

We can agree to disagree on this part, but you have crossed the line in good manners and good taste with your blatant attack on my character based on my decision to wear a tuxedo to said event.

Need I say more... no, I believe not. Bartenders, you can consider this thread closed, if you don't mind.

 

[maintcoder]

Now, this thread was started by Maintcoder, whom I had the great pleasure to meet at the QM. He was telling me about his colleagues who had got on him about being dressed all the time, and I think I gave him my usual 'crabs in a barrel' speech. So now he's obviously worried about what's going to happen at the cocktail party and what people are going to say about him (Correct me if I'm wrong, MC). Again, I say 'WHO CARES?' No one says 'boo' about a schmedrik that shows up in t-shirt and jeans, but I have to be worried about wearing a tux? To hell with that. In this era of 'anything goes' the only person you should try to impress is your date or significant other. Just think of when you leave that party. Wouldn't it be romantic if the two of you were looking attractive to each other? Men (well, this man, anyway) likes to see a woman in a gown. Women, so I've heard, like men in a tux. Life is FAR too short to abide by rules dictated by the uninspired.

Regards,

Senator Jack

Indeed, Senator Jack - that was my feeling all along. I would rather overdress than underdress and in my opinion 'evening' attire included a tuxedo. While I was the only one there in a tuxedo (hell, no one else owns one, it is a high tech company for heaven's sake!), I am viewed at work as the epitome of a certain sartorial level and the tuxedo was not outside the realm in this situation. I received numerous compliments and was not once mistaken for the waitstaff, as much as others claimed I would be.

The point of this thread was to inquire as to whether acceptable levels of attire were met by the ambiguous invitation. I would say t-shirts and cargo pants fail to meet the standard in any way, shape or form - along with jeans, checked button down shirt and corduroy blazer. Others may consider the suit with a polo acceptable as well as the lack of a tie - I do not. Those styles of dress - especially from executives that should know better - demonstrate a lack of courtesy to the event and those planning it. My tuxedo was not such a lack of courtesy as mentioned by other members here - in fact given the theme (purposefully left out), it was the most appropriate attire in the room.

 

[Tomasso]

Let's not loose Veronica, she's a treasure, as is her husband.