What should I do with these 'project shoes'? Spectators?

[Jamesbeat]

Hi guys, I've been lurking here for ages, but I just registered recently and this is my first post.


I went thrifting today. I got a couple of nice tweed sport coats and a pair of shoes.

A bizarre thing happened with the shoes...

I had taken them to the counter and was about to pay for them, when for some reason known only to her, the lady ringing me up decided to touch up a small scuff on the toe cap.

As I looked on with growing bafflement and horror, she took a brown sharpie and colored in the scuff (the color didn't match whatsoever).
The brown sharpie was evidently there for this specific reason, because it was in a box with a black sharpie and a bottle each of brown and black shoe shine... and a bottle of acetone!

Before I could say anything, she dipped a cotton swab in the acetone and wiped over the area where she had applied the sharpie, presumably to blend it in or something.

The result was clearly not what she was expecting, because I saw her eyes widen in horror, and she tried to turn the shoe towards her so that I couldn't see what was going on.
She then got the liquid shoe shine stuff and tried to cover her mistake with predictably poor results.

To cut a long story short, she basically removed a huge patch of the oxblood-type color from the toecap, and then sheepishly apologized and told me that she had ruined them.
I figured that if the color came off that easily with acetone, I could finish the job and then refinish the shoes.
I'd been wanting a project of this type, so after negotiating a price reduction, I walked out of the store with my new project shoes for the princely sum of $3.50

I decided that it would be sensible to try the least harsh solvent first, so I tried 99% isopropyl alcohol.
The alcohol evenly removed the top layer of color, but did not remove the underlying layer (I could tell this because the patch on the toecap was still a different color than the rest of the shoe).
I then tried pure acetone, which removed the second layer, revealing the natural surface of the leather, and finally bringing the whole shoe to the same color as the patch on the toecap.

Unfortunately, I ran out of acetone before I had completely finished the one shoe, so it still needs work, and the other shoe is untouched.

What would you do with these shoes?

Judging by the way alcohol now soaks easily into the leather, I think that these shoes would accept dye really well.

I'm thinking that my options are:

1. Leave the shoes this natural color and just treat the leather to protect it.

2. Dye the shoes dark brown, similar to their original color.

3. Make them into dark brown and tan spectators.

Option 1. is probably my least favorite, as I don't really have much cause to wear such light brown shoes, and I don't have many clothes that would go with them.

Option 2. is the most sensible. I don't actually have any brown shoes, which is why I was buying them in the first place.

Option 3. is the coolest I probably don't have anything to wear with brown and tan spectators, but I REALLY like spectators.
I moved to the States from the UK three years ago, and sold pretty much everything I owned. Unfortunately, this included both of my pairs of spectators, black-and-white and brown-and-cream longwings. I still kick myself when I think about them

So what do you think?
Do brown and tan spectators even look any good?
Do I need to own brown shoes more than I want to own spectators?
Should I leave them tan and broaden my horizons?

If you owned these 'blank canvas' shoes, what would you do with them and why?

 

[ottawa_adam]

This sounds like you might have a fun project at hand.

Based on your reactions to the options, and corresponding smiley faces, I say go for option 3. I just ordered a pair of AE specs from my local men's store, so I'm partial to this option.

Whatever the case, please ensure you keep us up to date on your progress.

 

[Tomasso]

Option 2. is the most sensible. I don't actually have any brown shoes, which is why I was buying them in the first place.

This....using the KISS principle*.



*Keep it simple, stupid!

 

[randooch]

I'd seal up the one that got the acetone treatment, then wear them as a contrasting pair. Just think of the conversations you would have.

 

[Jamesbeat]

This sounds like you might have a fun project at hand.

Based on your reactions to the options, and corresponding smiley faces, I say go for option 3. I just ordered a pair of AE specs from my local men's store, so I'm partial to this option.

Whatever the case, please ensure you keep us up to date on your progress.

Your perception is correct, I'm leaning heavily towards a spectator modification.
I used alcohol to remove the surface finish on the parts of the other shoe that would be tan if I made them into spectators.
It's much darker than the acetone-stripped leather you see in the photos, but it's enough to show me that it would look pretty good.

The majority of the finish came off pretty quickly, but I'm going to have to spend some time on the creases, nooks and crannies to ensure that all of the surface finish is gone before I dye the leather, otherwise it will be patchy.

The only other shoes I have dyed were a pair of western boots with sharkskin vamps. The sharkskin sucked up the dye like nobody's business, and I know that I need to really strip this leather to make it absorbent enough.

They aren't the best quality shoes I have ever seen, but they seem to be solidly constructed.
I think that the leather is corrected grain, but it does appear that the top grain was there underneath the surface treatment.
A lot of corrected grain is split hide with a plastic coating, but this leather appears to have a grain, and what appears to be a small scar on one of the heels.
I'd much rather have a top grain leather with a scar or two than plastic coated shinyness, so it seems that the thrift store lady did me a favor by demonstrating to me that there was reasonable leather underneath before I bought them.

Educate a displaced Englishman; how good are Bostonian shoes?
I'm not familiar with many of the American brands, having only lived here a few years, but they seem (at least to my only partially trained eye) to be quite well built.

 

[Jamesbeat]

This....using the KISS principle*.



*Keep it simple, stupid!

I'm attempting to talk myself out of this sensible but boring option thusly:
Brown shoes are everywhere, and I can pick up a pair any time I like.
Brown shoes that have good, dyeable leather underneath the surface coating that I know for a fact can be made into spectators may only come along once.
If I'm going to all this trouble, I might as well end up with something special/unusual as the result, and if it doesn't look good, I can simply dye the remaining leather brown to match.
Plus, where else am I going to get spectators for $3.50 and the price of a bottle of shoe dye?

 

[Jamesbeat]

I'd seal up the one that got the acetone treatment, then wear them as a contrasting pair. Just think of the conversations you would have.

"everyone has a dark side..."

I could make them into 'opposite spectators', with the opposite dark/light combination on each shoe.
Maybe I could sew together two halves of different colored trousers to wear them with!

Wait, are you making fun of me?

 

[Gin&Tonics]

Go for the spectators; clearly that's where your heart lies and honestly, what have you got to lose? Do anything else and you'll always be wondering how those specs might have turned out.

Caveat is that you MUST post progress pics for all of us to admire!

 

[Phineas Lamour]

I say go for the spectator option. Then if you can't find anything to wear them with, send them to me.

 

[Jamesbeat]

Well I did it, and it was a success.
Sort of.

The leather dye was dark brown, but it was quite a bit darker than I expected, almost black in fact.
It looks good though, because it increases the contrast with the undyed leather, so while it didn't turn out looking like I thought it would, I'm still pleased with them.

The second main problem came after the dyeing was finished.
I put some leather conditioner on the shoes to mitigate the drying effects of the alcohol, acetone and shoe dye.
Unfortunately it darkened the color of the undyed leather (which I was aware would happen) but it didn't do so evenly (which I did not know would happen).
It soaked deeper into the leather in areas with higher wear, such as the creases, and the result is that these areas look darker than the less worn areas.

Again, it doesn't look bad per se, kind of an antiquing effect, but I'd like to even the color out if I can.

Any ideas?

I promise I will post photos, it's just too hectic tonight as it's the kid's bed time etc....

 

[jimmer_5]

Theoretically, if the spectator option turned out badly, couldn't you just dye the other panels to match and end up with all brown shoes?

I don't think you have much to lose, so do the one you are most excited about.

 

[Jamesbeat]

I could so long as I could get all of the conditioner out.
The conditioner will prevent the dye from penetrating properly.

I managed to even the color out. It turns out that although I believed that I had removed all of the surface finish from the leather, there was a thin tenacious coating left.
The acetone had removed most of it, but there were still patches of it left, and in these places the conditioner didn't absorb the same as the other areas, leaving them lighter in color.
I went over these areas again with acetone, and then reapplied the conditioner, but now the color is much darker than I wanted.

It looks like I can strip the conditioner and remove the dark coloration by using yet more acetone, but I don't know what to do about treating the leather afterwards.

The conditioner leaves the leather too dark, but without it the leather may crack.

Hmm...

 

[LoveMyHats2]

Hello. you have to take your time and get more of the finish off the leather, and then use some saddle soap on the shoes, let them dry but rinse the saddle soap off really well, use it to clean the leather and to help get out all the chemicals you used to strip the shoes. Your shoes need to dry for more than 24 hours after the saddle soap and rinse. Stick some shoe trees in them.

Next, what dye are you using and what colors? If you are going to make any part of the shoe white, there is a newer latex coloring out, that is far better than any of the acrylic dyes for leather. I will post the name of the latex coloring later, I have not used it yet but my local cobbler has it in stock and I will be able to get that information from him later.

Conditioner after use of a dye.....use the leather conditioner on the INSIDE of the shoe, literally pour it into the shoe and rub it in with your fingers. Why do it that way? Because if not the conditioner is going to make the dye come right back off. Direct contact with the dye by most good conditioners will make the dye come back off. To avoid that, use the conditioner on the inside of the shoe, it will do more for keeping the leather from getting dry and cracking over time. Let it soak into the leather really well, add more conditioner as it soaks in.

Once you dye a pair of shoes, if you have used white dye, avoid use of any conditioner on the white, but you can use a white shoe cream polish on them every once and a while. I have found no matter what dye you have used if it is white in color, it will need to be applied again over time, it will eventually crack and peel. Now this new latex I have not used yet, it may be far better than acrylic for durability.

 

[Jamesbeat]

Thanks for the advice!

Actually, conditioner is my problem...

The dye job turned out great except for being a little too dark, but my problem is keeping the light parts light.
I wanted them to be tan, but everything I put on the leather turns it dark brown when it soaks in.

I made the horrendous mistake of using mink oil (yes I know now that it's not for dress shoes )
I managed to take it off with alcohol, but I'm having real trouble treating the tan leather without it turning deep chocolate brown.
Coupled with the too-dark brown dye which looks black, I keep ending up with black and dark brown spectators, which was not the look I was going for.

I did consider white, but from what I gather, turning veg-tanned leather white is always a compromise, and is essentially painting not dyeing.
White leather needs to be manufactured as white leather for it to turn out well.

Strangely enough, the dye appears to be extremely colorfast. I stripped the leather until alcohol would soak right in when applied to the surface, then applied the dye while the leather was still wet.
The dye penetrated deep into the leather, and there's no way conditioner would touch it.
I've found that when trying to clean off the mink oil from the undyed areas, I didn't need to be careful not to touch the dyed areas. The dyed leather has been scrubbed with both alcohol and acetone, and the dye was competely unaffected.

 

[Jamesbeat]

Success!
Sort of.

Using a mixture of isopropanol, ethanol, acetone and MEK, combined with an agressive wool pad, I finally managed to take back the dye to brown rather than black.
Because of this, the colors go together better, so even though the tan parts are darker than I intended, they now look ok because the dyed areas are more mellow.
The tan parts will probably never take a shine now because of the remaining mink oil, but that gives a pleasing contrast in texture as well as color, and I like the result.

The leather is dyed completely through by the looks of it, which is good news because it means I don't have to worry about it fading, flaking or rubbing off.

In a bizarre twist, I now have to repeat my mistake and use mink oil and heat to get the tan parts of the left shoe to match the right shoe, but once that's done I'll be pleased with the end result.
I promise I'll post photos when they're done

 

[LoveMyHats2]

Sounds like you have something going right for you now. Mink oil can be taken off with hot water and soap (joy dishwashing) and a regular old wash clothe. However, no matter what always use saddle soap and rinse it back off really well too. I will literally hold a shoe under warm water to rinse saddle soap back off, then use a towel and dry and wipe it for a while and then let the shoe dry by itself, I never use anything to "speed" dry a shoe.

Hint for some it can work but you have to experiment with this to get it right and I would think using a old worthless shoe best for practice...a good steam iron....cloth just like doing a hat to smooth it out....you can spray distilled water on a pair of shoes getting them really nice and wet...soak them...then make sure you have a shoe tree that fills up and sort of can stretch the front top and end of the toe box of the shoe.....getting the leather as tight as you can and with something to give resistance inside the shoe for what you do to the outside...use the iron on the shoe to smooth and get rid of creases! You have to do this with the shoe being stripped of all wax and polish....but it works and works well if you take your time, you have to keep the leather soaked with water and you have to mess with the direction you go with the iron of the, keep a clean thin cloth, I use either an old diaper or clean old "T" shirt between the leather and iron,.....but you can literally iron out bad creases and even when you get a dreadful dent on the toe of a shoe or boot......you can pop the toe and top of the shoe out, stuff a shoe tree (or anything you can find that will be close to the shape of the inside of the shoe) and press down and firmly push the iron on the leather, sort of mushes the leather and then check to see what you have going on with the crease. You can do this for some time to get it right, but eventually it does work. Steam iron only, no dry iron. And be careful you do not rip the outer surface of the leather.

 

[Jamesbeat]

Thanks, I tried dishwashing liquid as you suggested, and it did seem to help with the mink oil.
The problem was that I heated the leather after applying the mink oil to help it soak in
It's ok though, I know now not to do it in future, and the texture difference is a good contrast with the dyed parts.

The advice for the creases may come in handy too. The shoes were pretty creased, but that has lessened considerably since I applied the mink oil, so it did do some good.

Ok, I took some photos!
The shoes need a final detailing and polishing, but I think they turned out ok.
If you look carefully at the dyed parts, you can see that I did a bit of 'antiquing'.
Once I found a solvent that would actually touch the dye, I decided that I would scrub really hard here and there to give a more interesting effect.
This is not a fault with the dye job, which worked perfectly and came out completely even, but the leather looked a little TOO even and rather lifeless.

I'm expecting the tan areas to lighten up a bit over the next day or two. What you're seeing here is some temporary darkening from some neutral shoe polish that I applied.
I polished one of the shoes with this polish yesterday, and the color had lightened considerably by this evening.
I stripped and redid both shoes to help get the color even, so this polish is pretty fresh and consequently the leather is darker than it will be.

I also made and installed some quarter irons.
I know a lot of people don't like these, but I find that I really wear heels down fast, so they save me a lot of money!
I made them out of regular 1018 steel and countersunk the holes deeply to give me a lot of wear before I get down to the nail heads.
They are mounted flush rather than applied to the surface, and are held in with epoxy and four 3/4" nails each.

 

[LoveMyHats2]

Geez, you did good on those. I like the heel plate you made also. Thanks for sharing these pictures with us all!

I also would suggest a glue that will work good for anything on a shoe...it is called Seal-All. It can work on many things, but due to it being similar to Barge contact cement, and has a higher strength level than Barge, it works well. Most things on a shoe "move" and have to be flexible. So to use a solid hard glue like an epoxy that may be strong but not going to flex, is not something recommended. I recall using some very strong epoxy on the sole of a shoe, it "popped" off again after walking on the shoe for a few minutes. After cleaning that glue all off and using a contact cement, I found the contact cement held for months, as it has some flex to it. Cobblers use Barge or similar glues. My Cobbler explained about the Seal-All, it is water and gas proof, but still has some flex to it, and is about twice as strong as Barge.

 

[Jamesbeat]

Thanks
The heel plate is not as neat as I would have liked, and the photo exacerbates the problem, but they work, they're secure, and they sound great!
I ised the epoxy mainly to hold the things in place while I nailed them. It's a flexible epoxy though, so it may provide some strength, but that was not the main reason for using it. The four 3/4" nails seem very secure, and the epoxy has the added benefit of gluing the nail heads inside the metal, so if one gets loose it's less likely to drop out.

 

[Jingo Mastapone]

I anticipate a Conversion Corral for shoes will spring up from this thread.