What is Shearling meant to be like?

[wildbluesea]

I have just purchased a Noble House B9 jacket from Germany. It's a good fit and warm as hell. Appears well made, but I have a question on the outer finish. What is the outside of the shearling meant to be like - thick, hard leather, like that of a normal leather cow hide jacket? Or soft and thin feeling? I have never seen an original Irvin flying jacket. And reproductions are rare in Australia as most of it has a hot climate. The outside of my Noble House jacket is very soft, almost feels like those cheap vinyl fake leather jackets, with just a thin layer of vinyl on the outside. I'm not suggesting it's not meant to be like this - it's just that I've seen pics of some Irvins that appear so thick and stiff that they can stand up on their own. The outside of mine feels like the outer layer could rip easily. But maybe that's what good shearling is meant to be like! So what do you guys reckon the outisde of a good shearling/Irvin is meant to be like? I can get a refund, but I don't know if I have a good jacket or not.
Thanks

 

[Paden]

The Sheepskin of an Irvine is not soft as your jacket.
If you by an reproduction from Eastman, Aero ect. you will get high quality sheepskin.
I think it is always a matter of price, you get what you pay for.
So the B9 is a good jacket for the price but no comparsion to an Aero or Eastman.

 

[aswatland]

I have just purchased a Noble House B9 jacket from Germany. It's a good fit and warm as hell. Appears well made, but I have a question on the outer finish. What is the outside of the shearling meant to be like - thick, hard leather, like that of a normal leather cow hide jacket? Or soft and thin feeling? I have never seen an original Irvin flying jacket. And reproductions are rare in Australia as most of it has a hot climate. The outside of my Noble House jacket is very soft, almost feels like those cheap vinyl fake leather jackets, with just a thin layer of vinyl on the outside. I'm not suggesting it's not meant to be like this - it's just that I've seen pics of some Irvins that appear that so thick and stiff that they can stand up on their own. The outside of mine feels like the outer layer could rip easily. But maybe that's what good shearling is meant to be like! So what do you guys reckon the outisde of a good shearling/Irvin is meant to be like? I can get a refund, but I don't know if I have a good jacket or not.
Thanks

I own several original Irvins and B3s and a very nice ELC late War repro Irvin. None of them has the same finish/shearling issues as you describe. The actual skin is thicker and, although supple, does not resemble vinyl! I know of other people who have bought from this manufacturer and complained about the quality of the materials used.

 

[JLStorm]

I am absolutely no expert on shearling, but in the past when I have wanted thick shearling but was on a tight budget, I have gone with jackets that use more panels rather than pay for larger more uniform panels to be used. This brings the cost down significantly. It may not be as pretty, but they are just as warm and better quality for the money.

I have taken a look at the noble house ebay auctions and they sell every style of jacket cheaper, than every other manufacturer that I know of who does semi custom sizing. That alone was enough to make me not purchase from them.

However, you can also look at it this way, while your jacket may suffer from poorer construction and materials than much more costly jackets, you can also replace yours when it falls a part and still probably pay less than buying one really good jacket. Its all in what you are looking for. If you wanted a jacket that would look worn and break in over time and stay with you for a lifetime I would go with something of better quality. If you just wanted a new jacket and will constantly want new jackets or different styles and didnt have the money to constantly buy the best, a cheaper jacket isnt a bad way to go.

 

[wildbluesea]

Thanks for your input guys. I'd post a picture of my Noble House jacket, but this forum won't allow me at the moment. Any idea why?

 

[ins0ma]

I just went through the same thing, figuring out how to post photos, on the "Custom Highwayman" thread.

You have to "host" your pictures on a "server" somewhere. That means that your pic has to have a "URL" or "online" location. I did what I think a lot of people do, and signed up for a "Photobucket" account. It was free, took only a couple minutes, and made it very easy to write a post, click on the little picture of a landscape photo in the "message editor window" where you write posts, and "paste" (command-C on my Mac) the Photobucket URL of the photo you want to show up on the forum.

Pretty easy, and it also makes it simple to send the same pictures to other people, via email or whatever, since it re-scales the photos to a web-friendly size automatically.

Hope it helps.

 

[wildbluesea]

photo's

Thanks. Here's are the pics of my Noble House B9. Other than being unsure about the outside finish, I love it! As you can see by the pics, the skin looks like leather, but has the feel of soft vinyl, or even oiled suede. The jacket is lovely and warm, no problems with the inner sheepskin. The jacket is soft and floppy. So is this normal? The feedback on their website is all good. I'm sure, unlike me, other people know what good shearling is supposed to be like. They say it is genuine US Shearling.

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[wildbluesea]

Thanks for the advice on posting pics InsOma. It worked!!

 

[ins0ma]

Glad the photo-posting advice worked out. A couple things on the leather -- I'm no expert, but:

I remember my grandfather (ex-Air Force) showing me a thing or two about leather when I was a kid. . . He'd push his finger upwards through the underside of the leather, stretching the grain outwards, and if the skin changed color at the stress point he'd call it "cheap." And, the more pieces something has, the less its worth. A jacket with big, single pieces of leather cost a lot more to make than something pieced together from a bunch of smaller pieces. On a practical level, if it feels cheap, it probably is. Quality leather is self-apparent when you get your hands on it and of a different class than what you'll find in a mall or with cheap imports. How does the leather react when you stress it? If it really feels like its going to tear I'd get rid of it. I've seen the softest of calf-skin and even it feels fairly durable to the touch.

On the other hand, how much did that jacket cost? If it was less than $200 I think its fine. If it cost any more than that, return it and find a "real" one.

 

[JLStorm]

It looks soft and cheap like you had described. I have had a shearling like this in the past. It lasted a fair amount of time for the cost, probably 6 or 7 years of light use and it was warm, but I had to watch everything I rubbed up against because it would scuff and tear very easy compared with even cheap standard leather jackets. The seems were strong the shearling didnt pile or fall out, but the leather just eventually started to giveway and tear in the worn spots.

So it really depends on what you expected. If you expected a top of the line (or close to it) sturdy jacket that will last many years, you definitely didnt get one, but if you expected cheap jacket that will keep you warm without spending a fortune and that you didnt expect to hold up to a lot of wear and tear then you probably did ok.

For reference the shearling that I spoke of had thicker and slightly tougher leather than yours, but with slightly shorter shearling. It cost $289.00 US in 2001

 

[wildbluesea]

B9 cost about $500 AUD including post from Germany. The AUD is around .97USD at the moment, so there's not much difference. I guess this is about half of what an Easman or Aero would cost. I'll decide over the next few days if I should send it back. Strange as it may seem to some, money's not the issue - I just liked the style of the B9 over some top brand Irvin's or B3's. But have I lost the quality, that's the question....?

 

[wildbluesea]

Thanks guys. I found a bit of the outer leather tucked away on the inside of the jacket, normally out of sight and scraped at it with a sharp implement. To my surprise the top surface didn't peel away like cheap vinyl. It was tough and took some scraping before I finally got to the under layer. I'm talking about a tiny little test area here, but it's a lot tougher than it looks! Think it's a keeper. And the clincher is that the wife, seeing how much I wanted to love the jacket told me not to send it back, but buy another, top of the range one for next winter!!! Thanks again.

 

[ins0ma]

Just to give you an idea of what else is out there, US Wings makes a pretty nice-looking sheepskin bomber jacket:

I think that one is selling for $548. You can check out the website here

Of course ultimately, all that matters is that you have something you're happy with.

 

[wildbluesea]

Thanks insOma. Cabella's seem to have a good, cheap one too. Anyway, I went over my B9 in detail today before deciding to return it or not and, looking closely, there were a lot of woolen fibres on the outside, like bits of wool that had been left when the jacket was cut. Tried to brush them off and they wouldn't come off. Thought they were stuck to the jacket in the tanning process. Started pulling them one by one and the are twice as long and come right out from the inside of the jacket!! Can't imagine that happening on a new Easman or Aero!!! Think I'll send this back after all. What do you guys know about Cirrus jackets in the UK? Any good?

 

[JLStorm]

Thanks insOma. Cabella's seem to have a good, cheap one too. Anyway, I went over my B9 in detail today before deciding to return it or not and, looking closely, there were a lot of woolen fibres on the outside, like bits of wool that had been left when the jacket was cut. Tried to brush them off and they wouldn't come off. Thought they were stuck to the jacket in the tanning process. Started pulling them one by one and the are twice as long and come right out from the inside of the jacket!! Can't imagine that happening on a new Easman or Aero!!! Think I'll send this back after all. What do you guys know about Cirrus jackets in the UK? Any good?

The jacket I was referencing previously was the cabelas b3. Its great for a knock around jacket and daily wear and is about the cheapest new shearling you can get. If your working around heavy equipment, iron, steel, sharp objects, etc. its just going to get destroyed. For a cheap jacket its not bad though, but not as tough as a cheap traditional leather jacket.

 

[wildbluesea]

Just some feedback regarding my B9. Have been corresponding with Mara from Noble House in Germany. She couldn't be any friendlier. Has listened to my concerns about my shearling leather. More than happy to refund, but stands by the quality of their jackets. She says some companies have more colour and wax on their jackets, but their's is a quality product and that the "fighter squadron Bölcke" of the German Air Force proudly wear them. Here's a pic she directed me to. It's their battle of Britain jacket. Kind of ironic that - German Airforce wearing English style jackets - a good endorsement of the design some 70 odd years later. And of course a double win....but we won't go there.

 

[JLStorm]

Just some feedback regarding my B9. Have been corresponding with Mara from Noble House in Germany. She couldn't be any friendlier. Has listened to my concerns about my shearling leather. More than happy to refund, but stands by the quality of their jackets. She says some companies have more colour and wax on their jackets, but their's is a quality product and that the "fighter squadron Bölcke" of the German Air Force proudly wear them. Here's a pic she directed me to. It's their battle of Britain jacket. Kind of ironic that - German Airforce wearing English style jackets - a good endorsement of the design some 70 odd years later. And of course a double win....but we won't go there.

I saw that photo too floating around...and Im not trying to rain on your parade at all. The one thing that struck me as odd though, in cramped jets, where arm and shoulder movement, fine motor skills, etc are so critical. Why in today's society with lighter, flexible, and more rugged materials that do the same job would the german airforce where heavy thick confining shearling jackets? Plus, these cockpits are not as cold as WWII planes..

Sure, they are stylish and warm and look great...but the military has much more efficient fabrics for that now that are much less expensive. I just dont get it...something doesnt make sense.

 

[Smithy]

I saw that photo too floating around...and Im not trying to rain on your parade at all. The one thing that struck me as odd though, in cramped jets, where arm and shoulder movement, fine motor skills, etc are so critical. Why in today's society with lighter, flexible, and more rugged materials that do the same job would the german airforce where heavy thick confining shearling jackets? Plus, these cockpits are not as cold as WWII planes..

Sure, they are stylish and warm and look great...but the military has much more efficient fabrics for that now that are much less expensive. I just dont get it...something doesnt make sense.

It's just advertising, just bells and whistles to get the punters to buy the jackets. Fighter pilots haven't worn sheepskin flying jackets since WWII.

AL do much the same in their catalogues. It's all about harking back to the golden age of aviation and the general man in the street's preconceived ideas about pilots and what they should wear.

 

[JLStorm]

It's just advertising, just bells and whistles to get the punters to buy the jackets. Fighter pilots haven't worn sheepskin flying jackets since WWII.

AL do much the same in their catalogues. It's all about harking back to the golden age of aviation and the general man in the street's preconceived ideas about pilots and what they should wear.

But it sounds like this company is speaking of the quality of their items as if they are put to the test in battle. I have seen their ebay ads, I just have found it a bit misleading. It really doesnt say anything about the quality or ruggedness of the jacket. The only way an item (at least from what I normally see, not being a jacket guy) is advertised as used by the military, is if it is a rugged item that is actually used in battle currently OR has passed all the military specification torture tests.

I just find it odd that a selling point is that a fighter pilot wears the jacket, just not while flying, or even on active duty.

 

[Smithy]

AL have done the same thing with current and previous RAF aircrew.

As I said in my previous post it's just trying to appeal to the punter's romanticised sense of aviation. If you can shove a current knuck in an Irvin it obviously helps.

Hopefully most of the people who buy flying jackets know that sheepskin flying jackets stopped being used 60 odd years ago.

It's more the "idea" of the fighter pilot rather than the actuality.