What Is A "Dinner Jacket?"

[Indy Magnoli]

Here's a shot of me in my smoking jacket. It has a raw silk body and smooth silk lapels with quilt stitching. It has a half-belted back. My wife says that our house is far too small fo rme to strut around it in a jacket like this, so I've been asked to limit its use to my study.

Kind regards,
Magnoli

 

[John in Covina]

Eastern influence

I seem to recal that smoking jackets and wearing a fez or the similar chinese style of cap comes into play with the British Army veterans returning from the Middle and Far East outposts. Many smoking jackets seem to have shawl collars and a Chinese influence.

But don't quote me on this.:eusa_doh:

 

[Vermifuge]

Whe i think "dinner jacket" the White or ivory / Off White tux jacket comes to mind. you know.. very Humphrey Bogart / Casablanca like!

 

[John in Covina]

Cigar Aficionado Article

Smoking Jacket revival
See if you can go here:
http://www.cigaraficionado.com/Cigar/CA_Features/CA_Feature_Basic_Template/0,2344,598,00.html

 

[John in Covina]

CA Tux article

http://www.cigaraficionado.com/Cigar/CA_Archives/CA_Show_Article/0,2322,814,00.html

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Here is a dinner jacket made of crimson velvet, with velvet-covered buttons. From the later 1930s:

 

[Peacoat]

The white dinner jacket, commonly called a tuxedo in the US, is proper during the summer months. The black dinner jacket is proper for the other seasons. In many parts of the country, the black dinner jacket is also worn in the summer. I have been to many formals in the summer when not a single white dinner jacket was present--not entirely proper, but more practical.

As to the notch vs. shawl lapels, strictly a matter of preference. My first dinner jacket many years ago in high school and college was the shawl type. Currently I have three dinner jackets with notch lapels, which I see more frequently at the parties than the shawl type. My set of tails has a notch lapel with the bottom part of the lapel (below the notch) wider than the top part above the notch. This style is also seen on some of the dinner jackets. I tend to think of the shawl or the wide notch lapel as more "vintage" than the standard notch lapel.

And to the poster above, you are entirely correct, Savile Row does not recognize the word "Tuxedo." In my limited experience with formal parties in England, I find the English use the term "dinner jacket," rather than "tuxedo."

 

[Tomasso]

My set of tails has a notch lapel with the bottom part of the lapel (below the notch) wider than the top part above the notch.

Might it be a peak lapel?

 

[RadioHead]

Say again?

As a citizen of a country occupied and downtrodden by the english, i tend to reject such things.

bk

fftopic:

(Me off topic, of course, not you...)

I just HAVE to take you to task for this one. Your country was never "occupied" by the English. Before the Revolutionary War, the citizens of what is now the U.S.A. were BRITISH citizens; they were citizens of British North America, which included where I live, what is now eastern Canada. It's only when their dander was up that the revolution occurred and the "Americans" revolted, severing their ties with England.

"Downtrodden", however, I'm not prepared to argue. [huh]

 

[Happy Stroller]

Here's a shot of me in my smoking jacket. It has a raw silk body and smooth silk lapels with quilt stitching. It has a half-belted back. My wife says that our house is far too small fo rme to strut around it in a jacket like this, so I've been asked to limit its use to my study.

Kind regards,
Magnoli

====================== End of quote ====================

Somehow, I can't help feeling you're wearing a Stroller jacket with a single pair of link buttons and which has been modified to incorporate side pocket flaps. Two factors shout out that is not a Smoking Jacket. Firstly, its material is not velvet. Secondly, the jacket has a rather open V design, exposing the tie (how come it's not a bow-tie?) amd/or shirt to smoke unnecessarily, as the purpose of the smoking jacket was to avoid the absorption of smoke odour by the rest of the clothes while a gentleman stays in the library. In addition, why are you wearing a pair of day-time pants as if you intend to stroll outdoors soon?

 

[Happy Stroller]

fftopic:

(Me off topic, of course, not you...)

I just HAVE to take you to task for this one. Your country was never "occupied" by the English. Before the Revolutionary War, the citizens of what is now the U.S.A. were BRITISH citizens; they were citizens of British North America, which included where I live, what is now eastern Canada. It's only when their dander was up that the revolution occurred and the "Americans" revolted, severing their ties with England.

"Downtrodden", however, I'm not prepared to argue. [huh]

===================== End of quote ======================

Hey, Radio Head

Why is Baron Kurtz quoted in this thread when he doesn't seem to have posted to this thread?

Are you sure there were British citizens in America in the good ol' days when King George V ruled the Colonies. Or, were they simply His subjects with no voting rights?

And how is it the U.S. of A. was not and has never been a member of the British Commonwealth?

 

[Tomasso]

I just HAVE to take you to task for this one. Your country was never "occupied" by the English.

The Baron is a citizen of the U.K. There are many who share his thoughts.

 

[Happy Stroller]

Hey, Radio Head

Why is Baron Kurtz quoted in this thread when he doesn't seem to have posted to this thread?
:

===================== End of quote ======================

My apologies, Radio Head. The Baron did post on page 1. Maybe he is a non-English UK citizen?

 

[geo]

I just HAVE to take you to task for this one. Your country was never "occupied" by the English.

You all got it wrong, he was talking about Scotland.

Here is a dinner jacket made of crimson velvet, with velvet-covered buttons. From the later 1930s:

It's a smoking jacket.

In Europe(Western/Northern), the getup which is known by Americans, as a Tuxedo(and Dinner attire) is know as "Smoking". Just "Smoking".
In German even.

And in France, it is known as le smoking.

My other question is still unanswered: what goes in a cucumber sandwitch, besides bread and cucumbers?

 

[Peacoat]

Might it be a peak lapel?

Thank you, Tomasso. Yes, it is a "peak" lapel. The term escaped me last night.

 

[Happy Stroller]

You all got it wrong, he was talking about Scotland.
:
My other question is still unanswered: what goes in a cucumber sandwitch, besides bread and cucumbers?

=================== End of quote =====================

All of us? All?

Do you mean there's more than a whole cucumber in it?

Don't know about a sandwitch, but in a cucumber sandwich, butter also; but why this question??

 

[manton]

I too would call it a smoking jacket, not a dinner jacket. The key point is that velvet was traditionally not worn outside one's own home or club. Within those confines, the garments were interchangable: at your home, you could wear either a DJ or a smoking. Going out to someone else's home, you were expected to wear a black or midnight or (in season or in the tropics) off white. In public (theater, restaurants), white tie was expected.

The dinner jacket is derived from the true (velvet) smoking jacket, which came first. That's why the French and the Germans still call the DJ a "smoking." The English call the wool or mohiar version a DJ and the velvet version a smoking.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Going out to someone else's home, you were expected to wear a black or midnight or (in season or in the tropics) off white.

Yes; but in the '30s, the rules were relaxed. Summertime dinner jackets (the Palm Beach Cloth kind) were made in dove grey, slate grey, burgundy, and even green ... not just off-white. And believe it or not, I once saw a mid '30s fashion plate of a black velvet tuxedo: jacket, waistcoat and trousers.

.

 

[manton]

I once saw a mid '30s fashion plate of a black velvet tuxedo: jacket, waistcoat and trousers. .

All three were velvet? Never seen that!

I occasionally also see plates showing tan DJs. Sometimes I wonder if or to what extent these things really caught on. In certain instances, AA and Esquire pushed things that never went anwywhere.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Do you mean there's more than a whole cucumber in it?

Don't know about a sandwitch, but in a cucumber sandwich, butter also; but why this question??

Interesting (and remarkably heated) twist. Yes, butter (or, increasingly, margarine) would be in the cucumber sandwitch. Generally a single layer of sliced cucumber between two slices of white bread with butter or maragarine, often with the crusts chopped off.

See how going off topic can snowball? All from a single mention of elevenses. wow.

I was being intentionally opaque to try to keep the discussion away from the politics of English possessions north of the northern Marches. I really shouldn't've brought it up at all, i guess.

bk