what if you could travel back in time but could never return?

[jamespowers]

My mother married a lazy shiftless bum in 1959, and after six years of it she told him where to get off, in no uncertain terms. She married a *violent creep* in 1971, and seven months later he found himself on the pavement. Ma didn't need anyone to give her a way out -- she made herself one.

During the 1940s, my great aunt worked as a longshoreman. She was stronger, rougher, and tougher than many of the men she worked with -- and nobody dared to give her any lip.

My grandmother co-ran a business for nearly forty years, while raising two kids and then helping to raise three grandchildren.

Not all pre-1980s women were passive pushovers. It's never a good idea to generalize.

You aren't kidding. People who think women back in the day were wilting flowers never met my grandparents either. My grandmother on my mother's side was as tough as any woman today. She farmed and ranched with my grandfather for many years. In fact, her business ability outpaced his. She ran the business side of farming.
My father's mother worked in the canneries here for over fifty years. She only quit because she broke her ankle in the 1970s. Cannery work was no joke. It was tough and hard work. She was not alone either as many women here worked in the canneries. Not in management?! She was head forelady at the Oakland Gerbers for decades until she retired.
Women in those days never had problems with men because they always knew that getting to point A might mean going around the back way or using guile to a greater degree.
I think the problem today is that most women do not understand how much they lost. They used to manage the households. That meant they controlled the money. They controlled their schedules. They had a greater influence on the next generation and they actually ruled the world through the influence they had with their husbands and children.
Now they work just as hard as men, die from diseases they never thought of having 50 years ago like heart disease and lung cancer, don't have half the time they used to and their children are near strangers to them because daycare raises them while they are killing themselves at work. By the time they get home, there is nothing left to give. Yeah, we really have progressed for women.
The better question is to ask your grandparents if they would rather have raised a family in today's society instead of their's fifty to sixty years ago. The time machine is open for them too. One way. To the present from their past.
Mark both sides of my family. NO.

Regards,

J

 

[jamespowers]

Well, I must be really square but I agree completely with PrettySquareGal.
I am 50 and conservative. I think women as a whole had it 199% better as a whole before about 1960s.
I bought into the hippie last stages but had family members who were and are still stuck there. I greatly regret my stupidity and chalk it up to youth.
I remember a time when there were bad girls and good girls and everyone knew the difference and what that meant. I would personally punch Gloria Steinem and that Bella Abzug if I could as it has made it much harder for all women IMHO.
I would love to go back to years right after WW11 and see all the boom building and just feel the great pride of winning a War, new homes, baby boomers. etc.
I don't want to go back to the diseases though.

I just saw your response. Punch both of them twice for me too. :eusa_clap

regards,

J

 

[K.D. Lightner]

While there are a few places I might want to visit on a time machine trip to the past, there is one place I would not dare venture, not even for a few seconds: the future.

What would I find? A bombed-out hole in the ground? A planet as devoid of life as Mars? A society that has enslaved people? Or just manners and mores that are so different than what I am accustomed to, it would frighten me.

Stephen King had a short story in which a 1940's L.A. detective got forwarded into the future, trading places with a detective in today's world. The contemporary man did not want to come back and so the detective of an earlier age was stuck in this time, trying to figure out how to get back to a pre-war L.A. I remember his description of today's music like "two crows being par-boiled alive."

I remember reading about POWs from the Vietnam War who were captured in the mid-60's and released after the war (1973). Can you imagine the culture shock they endured? Happy to be released, yes, but -- what place is this?!

karol

 

[GoldLeaf]

I think that there has been progress for women. For the past few years of my marriage, I am very glad that I had a job, I couldn't stand sitting home alone all day. I am the kind of person that doesn't like to spend large stretches of time all by myself.

I like my job quite a bit, and my field is fascinating to me. If I was raised in a society to believe that I shouldn't be working in this field and that I should be at home, would I miss this? I don't know. But I enjoy my work. And I certainly don't want to work in a cannery because this variety of professional work wasn't available to me.

Do I regret that I can't be a stay at home mom? Yes, I do. I would quit my job in a heart beat to stay home until the kids were off to school. I would also use that time to work on my Masters, so that when I wanted to re-enter the work force, I would be competitive.

However, I can't quit my job, we couldn't afford to live if I did. I wish I could, but no matter what my choice, I am glad that I have to option to have this job or to stay at home.

 

[Paisley]

This reminds me of my friend Opal, age 80. As a kid, she worked at the family moving and storage business as the debt collector. She married a bum who left her with one baby and another on the way. She did get a child support order, but in those days they weren't worth the paper they were written on. (Courts didn't get serious about enforcing support orders until the late 1980s.) Nevertheless, she eventually bought a house and raised her kids. When she left her job at a school for the deaf, they had to replace her with two employees.

Anytime I'm stumped, I call Opal for advice.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

However, I can't quit my job, we couldn't afford to live if I did. I wish I could, but no matter what my choice, I am glad that I have to option to have this job or to stay at home.

But is it really an option to stay at home if you can't quit your job? That was my earlier point.

 

[jamespowers]

But is it really an option to stay at home if you can't quit your job? That was my earlier point.

Shackled one way or the other? :eusa_doh:

 

[PrettySquareGal]

Shackled one way or the other? :eusa_doh:

Not all women succumbed to societal pressures, as you obviously understand. I'd much rather risk social stigma and challenges- those can be overcome with the right attitude, grit and grace. Finances and inflation, well, a good attitude won't fix that one.

 

[jamespowers]

Not all women succumbed to societal pressures, as you obviously understand. I'd much rather risk social stigma and challenges- those can be overcome with the right attitude, grit and grace. Finances and inflation, well, a good attitude won't fix that one.

Yep, I figured that is what you were saying. Wage slave versus attitude. I know which I would rather stomach.

Regards,

J

 

[K.D. Lightner]

There is always, in the human heart, a feeling that the "grass is greener" -- somewhere else, in another place, another time, another job or relationship.

Best thing for those of you nostalgic for the past: go there and live for a year, we would then see who returns and who doesn't. I would bet that many of the women would return after they see what they have to endure living in those times. Maybe some men wouldn't return, but my guess is, if they had heart problems and needed a pacemaker or a triple-bypass, they'd be back in, yes, a heartbeat.

My grandmother was a hard-working, industrious woman. Her husband was in a wheelchair from age 28 on; she opened a grocery store and ran it for years, she was also a midwife and had a lot of medical knowledge. She was a smart businesswoman, also had an Avon route after she sold the store and her husband died, as she could not stand not having a job. She had the Avon job up until a few months before she died, at age 86.

In this day and age, she might have become a doctor, or worked on Wall Street, or been a CEO. Would she have made more money? Certainly. Would she have been happier with more opportunities today? I think so, although I certainly know women (and men) who have big careers and are not happy.

I had friends who wanted to be doctors in the 1950's and early 60's but were steered towards nursing. Several became nurses. Are they happy? Some are content, others think of what might have been, if only....

Yes, men could work in factories and retire from the same place after 40 years, my father did; a factory worker could buy and sell houses, then. They can't in many parts of the country today. Yes, the pace was slower, children more innocent, style and fashion more prevalent, people worked harder at physical labor including housewives (my grandmother had a washboard to wash her clothes). Were they happier, did they live longer? My grandparents were "old" when they died in their mid-70's. My mother likes her modern conveniences and driving a car, which many women then did not do, nor would their husbands let them. She wishes she could have gone to school and had a career, but no one encouraged her back then, nor did she have the money. She had to borrow money to get her driver's license because my father did not want her to drive. Years later, she hauled him around to his doctor's appointments because he couldn't drive....

The main reason I would not go back, besides the medical stuff, is this: women always should have had the opportunities they have now, our society was much poorer then because good strong enterprising women were blocked from participating in medicine, law, politics, big business (except as secretaries), and many other professions.

Remember that many of those earlier feminists, women in my generation, were rebelling against a society that excluded them from many jobs and civil rights. They saw their mothers at home, bored, feeling martyred, feeling as if something was missing from their lives, and those young women vowed they would change things. I fought in the streets for women's rights and, a generation later, saw my niece go to college on a softball scholarship, something that did not happen in my time.

You all can come and punch me out if that is what you think would bring back the good old days. I don't recall them being so good for lots of folks.

karol

 

[GoldLeaf]

But is it really an option to stay at home if you can't quit your job? That was my earlier point.

I do see your point However, once my hubby is done with is Masters and gets a real job (his current one doesn't count, lol) things for us could change quite a bit. Who knows? At least then it could be an option. It may not be now, but knowing that it could be is wonderful

And Karol, I agree with you. My mom is a cancer and a heart attack survivor. The cancer she got - Non-Hodgkin's B-cell Lymphoma - was fatal. She was given 2 painful years to live. Thanks to a cutting edge, experimental treatment, she is alive and cancer free for 9 years. She received clot busing meds during her heart attacks that saved her life. Without these, she would have died 8 years ago at 52.

I live in 2007, I may as well appreciate the benefits

 

[NicolettaRose]

I think the beauty of today is women have a choice. It is both exceptable for them to stay home or go out to the work place and also it is increasingly acceptable for a man to stay home as well, ie, be a stay at home dad. I would actually prefer not work a full time job and stay at home, since for the most part, I am a homebody.

I am not married, but because I am self employed, I work only 5 hours a week and make just as much or more as my friends working in 40 hour a week jobs. I also have fibromyalgia, so working a full time job is very taxing on my body.

I think if you are going to be a housewife, you need to do something valueable with your time, whether it is raising your children, if you have them, or if not, pursueing something that you will benefit yourself, your family or humanity, whether that is doing something creative ( writing a novel, painting a picture) or volenteering. Because I have a lot of spare time, writing has become my almost full time job, and voleenteering with rescue animals has also become an important part of my life.

 

[green papaya]

since there would be no comming back, I would take my life savings back in time with me and retire

because with the value of a dollar being much more back in the old days, I would be a very rich man if I went back with all my money

and I could research what to invest my money in before going back

so I would be assured of making money

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

since there would be no comming back, I would take my life savings back in time with me and retire

because with the value of a dollar being much more back in the old days, I would be a very rich man if I went back with all my money

and I could research what to invest my money in before going back

so I would be assured of making money

You would have to convert it all to gold coins or paper money from the era in which you intended to go though.

 

[Dormouse]

The medicine that keeps me alive wasn't invented until relatively recently. Unless I took a lifetime supply with me, or a means of manufacturing it from raw ingredients, I'd quickly succumb and probably die within a few years.

If I could bring the medicine...? I'm tempted by the thought of being part of a generation that would have a higher standard of living than their parents, and that could reasonably expect even better for their own kids.

My great-grandparents were completely broke and owned the clothes they came over on the boat with. My grandparents owned one house each and one car per family. My parents, who are "Boomers," own a house, an acre of good land, and three functioning vehicles. I rent an apartment, the bank still owns my car, and I have so much student loan debt I will never be done paying it off. My grandparents could expect their "Boomer" kids to be healthier, happier, and richer than themselves. I can't expect my "Gen Y" kids to be as well-off as me. I wish I could live in a time that had reason for optimism.

 

[jamespowers]

You would have to convert it all to gold coins or paper money from the era in which you intended to go though.

Just gold in general would be fine. Gold coins from that era are too costly to convert. Gold bars or bullion would work for me. Could I drive into the past with a fully restored car from that era? That could save me some trouble of buying a new one.

Regards,

J

 

[Mike1939]

As a amateur historian I could not pass up the chance to take my nose out of my books and experience the Golden Era first hand. Once I arrived in the past I'd take the good with the bad and roll with the punches, just like I do in the present.

 

[Paisley]

The Heimlich Maneuver has saved my life on a few occasions. I also had a bout with H. pylori, the bacteria that causes ulcers. This is an ancient bacteria, and many people live with it asymtomatically, but I was going downhill. It's only been in the past ten years or so that it's been treated with antibiotics.

 

[jamespowers]

There is always, in the human heart, a feeling that the "grass is greener" -- somewhere else, in another place, another time, another job or relationship.

Best thing for those of you nostalgic for the past: go there and live for a year, we would then see who returns and who doesn't. I would bet that many of the women would return after they see what they have to endure living in those times. Maybe some men wouldn't return, but my guess is, if they had heart problems and needed a pacemaker or a triple-bypass, they'd be back in, yes, a heartbeat.

My grandmother was a hard-working, industrious woman. Her husband was in a wheelchair from age 28 on; she opened a grocery store and ran it for years, she was also a midwife and had a lot of medical knowledge. She was a smart businesswoman, also had an Avon route after she sold the store and her husband died, as she could not stand not having a job. She had the Avon job up until a few months before she died, at age 86.

In this day and age, she might have become a doctor, or worked on Wall Street, or been a CEO. Would she have made more money? Certainly. Would she have been happier with more opportunities today? I think so, although I certainly know women (and men) who have big careers and are not happy.

I had friends who wanted to be doctors in the 1950's and early 60's but were steered towards nursing. Several became nurses. Are they happy? Some are content, others think of what might have been, if only....

Yes, men could work in factories and retire from the same place after 40 years, my father did; a factory worker could buy and sell houses, then. They can't in many parts of the country today. Yes, the pace was slower, children more innocent, style and fashion more prevalent, people worked harder at physical labor including housewives (my grandmother had a washboard to wash her clothes). Were they happier, did they live longer? My grandparents were "old" when they died in their mid-70's. My mother likes her modern conveniences and driving a car, which many women then did not do, nor would their husbands let them. She wishes she could have gone to school and had a career, but no one encouraged her back then, nor did she have the money. She had to borrow money to get her driver's license because my father did not want her to drive. Years later, she hauled him around to his doctor's appointments because he couldn't drive....

The main reason I would not go back, besides the medical stuff, is this: women always should have had the opportunities they have now, our society was much poorer then because good strong enterprising women were blocked from participating in medicine, law, politics, big business (except as secretaries), and many other professions.

Remember that many of those earlier feminists, women in my generation, were rebelling against a society that excluded them from many jobs and civil rights. They saw their mothers at home, bored, feeling martyred, feeling as if something was missing from their lives, and those young women vowed they would change things. I fought in the streets for women's rights and, a generation later, saw my niece go to college on a softball scholarship, something that did not happen in my time.

You all can come and punch me out if that is what you think would bring back the good old days. I don't recall them being so good for lots of folks.

karol

I am not quite sure where this experience was gained but in California way back when, women did many things that you mentioned they were not allowed to do. They mayor of the city I am in now was a woman for decades.
However we also have to remember that we are judging the past with our present standards and values. That is impossible to do. Hindsight is always 20/20. I sure would not want to be judged by the standards of 2100. :eusa_doh:
Further put succinctly, I judge what was done in the past based on the results reaped from it. Being as apolitical as possible, I really doubt they imagined what they did would result in this---higher crime, the break up of the nuclear family, skyrocketing divorce and teenage pregnancy rates, higher juvenile deliquency and a host of other problems they kept under control before. Reference Thomas Sowell (magna cum laude from Harvard University (1958)) and his Harlem experience then and now in his A Personal Odyessy.

Regards,

J

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

Just gold in general would be fine. Gold coins from that era are too costly to convert. Gold bars or bullion would work for me. Could I drive into the past with a fully restored car from that era? That could save me some trouble of buying a new one.

Regards,

J

Just tell the folks at the bank that your uncle was a miner or something, left you all this bullion in his will. Take all your vintage hats and clothes too.